Amazon 7 #1 August 25, 2011 DUH http://www.npr.org/2011/08/24/139781021/the-evangelicals-engaged-in-spiritual-warfare August 24, 2011 An emerging Christian movement that seeks to take dominion over politics, business and culture in preparation for the end times and the return of Jesus, is becoming more of a presence in American politics. The leaders are considered apostles and prophets, gifted by God for this role. The international "apostolic and prophetic" movement has been dubbed by its leading American architect, C. Peter Wagner, as the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). Although the movement is larger than the network organized by Wagner — and not all members describe themselves as part of Wagner's NAR — the so-called apostles and prophets of the movement have identifiable ideology that separates them from other evangelicals. Two ministries in the movement planned and orchestrated Texas Gov. Rick Perry's recent prayer rally, where apostles and prophets from around the nation spoke or appeared onstage. The event was patterned after The Call, held at locations around the globe and led by Lou Engle, who has served in the Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders of the NAR. Other NAR apostles endorsed Perry's event, including two who lead a 50-state "prayer warrior" network. Thomas Muthee, the Kenyan pastor who anointed Sarah Palin at the Wasilla Assembly of God Church in 2005, while praying for Jesus to protect her from the spirit of witchcraft, is also part of this movement. On Wednesday's Fresh Air, Rachel Tabachnick, who researches the political impact of the religious right, joins Terry Gross for a discussion about the growing movement and its influence and connections in the political world. Tabachnick says the movement currently works with a variety of politicians and has a presence in all 50 states. It also has very strong opinions about the direction it wants the country to take. For the past several years, she says, the NAR has run a campaign to reclaim what it calls the "seven mountains of culture" from demonic influence. The "mountains" are arts and entertainment; business; family; government; media; religion; and education. "They teach quite literally that these 'mountains' have fallen under the control of demonic influences in society," says Tabachnick. "And therefore, they must reclaim them for God in order to bring about the kingdom of God on Earth. ... The apostles teach what's called 'strategic level spiritual warfare' [because they believe that the] reason why there is sin and corruption and poverty on the Earth is because the Earth is controlled by a hierarchy of demons under the authority of Satan. So they teach not just evangelizing souls one by one, as we're accustomed to hearing about. They teach that they will go into a geographic region or a people group and conduct spiritual-warfare activities in order to remove the demons from the entire population. This is what they're doing that's quite fundamentally different than other evangelical groups." Rick Perry's Rally The organizers of Perry's rally were from ministries founded by two apostles/prophets of the movement — The Call, and the International House of Prayer founded by Mike Bickle. Bickle, who led part of Perry's event, has claimed that Oprah Winfrey is a precursor of the Antichrist, and Engle has claimed that gay people are controlled by "demonic spirits." Both have served on the Council of Prophetic Elders initiated by Wagner. "Lou Engle [has spoken] at length about how one of his sons has started an International House of Prayer in the Castro district of San Francisco and that his son is now expelling demons from homosexuals, and supposedly then this cures them of their homosexuality," says Tabachnick. "He has also held [prayer rallies] around the world." One of Engle's previous rallies took place in Uganda in May 2010, shortly after an anti-homosexuality bill had been proposed. "Various people got on the stage [at his rally] and promoted the anti-homosexuality bill in Uganda, which is a very draconian bill that would allow for executions for certain offenses, and would also allow for people who don't report homosexual history to be jailed," she says. "The apostles have had a long history in Uganda, and some of them have had close relationships with both political and religious leaders there. In fact, an apostle in Uganda takes credit for promoting the anti-homosexuality bill and was recognized by the parliament in Uganda when the bill was introduced." Engle has another rally planned in November in Detroit. The purpose of the prayer rally, says Tabachnick, is to "fight the demonic spirit of Islam." "In other words, [they want] to conduct spiritual warfare against the spiritual demons which they claim hold Muslims in bondage and keep them from converting," she says. "Of course, this is expressed in terms of love. They say 'We don't hate Muslims. We love Muslims. But we hate that they are in spiritual bondage and don't convert to Christianity.' " A 'Different' Evangelicalism Tabachnick, who has been researching and writing about the apostles for a decade, says her own religious background has helped her with her research. She grew up as a Southern Baptist and converted to Judaism as an adult. "Having the Southern Baptist background and growing up in the Deep South has helped me to be able to do this research and has also helped me realize something that might not be apparent to some other people looking at the movement," she says. "This is quite radically different than the evangelicalism of my youth. The things that we've been talking about are not representative of evangelicalism. They're not representative of conservative evangelicalism. So I think that's important to keep in mind. This is a movement that's growing in popularity, and one of the ways they've been able to do that [is because] they're not very identifiable to most people. They're just presented as nondenominational or just Christian — but it is an identifiable movement now with an identifiable ideology." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #2 August 25, 2011 one of my [URL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHb4gs1hwck] favorites [/URL] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #3 August 25, 2011 Quoteone of my [URL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHb4gs1hwck] favorites [/URL] Of course it is.. did you get that from the C of CC site?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #4 August 25, 2011 QuoteC of CC site?? no - youtube Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #5 August 25, 2011 QuoteQuoteC of CC site?? no - youtube Fellow travellers and all..... QUACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #6 August 25, 2011 Talk about child abuse, and these kids will be voting someday. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2STDH14aJVk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 176 #7 August 25, 2011 It's a good thing we're fighting the religious nutters "over there" so they don't get us here at home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #8 August 25, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piwmshfmsrc&feature=related this is my favorite clip from the movie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #9 August 25, 2011 This is nothing new. All believers can bind the power of demonic spirits and perform exorcisms. Not all choose this path of ministry, however. The instructions can be found in the NT.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #10 August 25, 2011 You are a scary man.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Niki1 1 #11 August 25, 2011 QuoteTalk about child abuse, and these kids will be voting someday. To compare this to the Hitler Youth program might be a bit strong. But what these people want is about the same as Sharia law with a different face. Actually Mohamed and Jesus probably did look similar to each other. Jesus certainly didn't look like the European in the Renasance paintings.Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done. Louis D Brandeis Where are we going and why are we in this basket? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #12 August 25, 2011 QuoteThis is nothing new. All believers can bind the power of demonic spirits and perform exorcisms. Not all choose this path of ministry, however. The instructions can be found in the NT. You're right, it is not new. It dates back to when some people believed that the earth was the center of the universe. Funny that some still believe that the book of NoTruth are the words of a magical ghost. Maybe I'll buy stock in Kraft Foods. Kool-Aid sales should rocket in the next 4 years."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #13 August 25, 2011 Not anything new or surprising to anybody who has spent much time around charismatics."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #14 August 25, 2011 QuoteNot anything new or surprising to anybody who has spent much time around charismatics. I wonder how many Americans would want a government run by these people. They have a tendency to be very exclusive.. in their desire to ostracize anyone outside their group-think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #15 August 25, 2011 QuoteMaybe I'll buy stock in Kraft Foods. Kool-Aid sales should rocket in the next 4 years. Judging from the recent spate of stories/threads about Palin/Bachmann/Perry, you've already missed out.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #16 August 25, 2011 QuoteQuoteNot anything new or surprising to anybody who has spent much time around charismatics. I wonder how many Americans would want a government run by these people. They have a tendency to be very exclusive.. in their desire to ostracize anyone outside their group-think. Well, I don't think I'd want those people in charge, on the other hand I don't particularly see any more threat from their "spiritual warfare prayers" than I do from their speaking in tongues. Been going on a long time and while I'm sure it is personally fulfilling and meaninful to the participants it doesn't seen to have much inpact on anybody else."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #17 August 25, 2011 QuoteQuoteNot anything new or surprising to anybody who has spent much time around charismatics. I wonder how many Americans would want a government run by these people. They have a tendency to be very exclusive.. in their desire to ostracize anyone outside their group-think. Irony score...incalculable.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #18 August 25, 2011 Quoteone of my [URL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHb4gs1hwck] favorites [/URL] Haha! That was awesome -- thanks for that. I'm going to forward it to some friends of mine. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJohnson 0 #19 August 26, 2011 ***. All believers can bind the power of demonic spirits and perform exorcisms. Quote Really? That sounds like some major "Supernatural Powers". If you have those abilities why can't you love like your Savior the Muslim man who killed your child? Why can't you bring yourself to love your neighbor as your"Savior " commanded? Why do you fear? More specificly why do you fear death at the hands of Muslims? Or do you believe that we should never war? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #20 August 26, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Not anything new or surprising to anybody who has spent much time around charismatics. I wonder how many Americans would want a government run by these people. They have a tendency to be very exclusive.. in their desire to ostracize anyone outside their group-think. Irony score...incalculable. There you go again.. THINKING in tounges Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maxwellman23 0 #21 August 26, 2011 Who is hating? Who is fearful? They ARE some major supernatural powers, powers meant to heal the sick, open blind eyes, even raise the dead! All to show a world ruled by Satan that God is real, Jesus is real and the only way we could ever hope to be set free is through Jesus. This is the reality we ALL live in, I have just become much more aware of it. I'll answer any inquiries you have I am ALIVE! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nanook 1 #22 August 26, 2011 Quote***. All believers can bind the power of demonic spirits and perform exorcisms. Quote Really? That sounds like some major "Supernatural Powers". If you have those abilities why can't you love like your Savior the Muslim man who killed your child? Why can't you bring yourself to love your neighbor as your"Savior " commanded? Why do you fear? More specificly why do you fear death at the hands of Muslims? Or do you believe that we should never war? Good points. After all. . . Why do christians have any fear at all? they should be brave to the point of suicidal indifference to consequences. They are supposively going to a better place._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,257 #23 August 26, 2011 QuoteI'll answer any inquiries you have Can you do magic?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #24 August 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteI'll answer any inquiries you have Can you do magic? Magic is a form of demonic power. It comes from Satan and the abyss of darkness. BTW, no need to fear me. I am not scary, unless you are afraid of the light.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tkhayes 140 #25 August 26, 2011 one man's 'black magic' is another man's satanic worship. It's all bad, on all sides. radicalism. no time for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Amazon 7 #20 August 26, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Not anything new or surprising to anybody who has spent much time around charismatics. I wonder how many Americans would want a government run by these people. They have a tendency to be very exclusive.. in their desire to ostracize anyone outside their group-think. Irony score...incalculable. There you go again.. THINKING in tounges Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maxwellman23 0 #21 August 26, 2011 Who is hating? Who is fearful? They ARE some major supernatural powers, powers meant to heal the sick, open blind eyes, even raise the dead! All to show a world ruled by Satan that God is real, Jesus is real and the only way we could ever hope to be set free is through Jesus. This is the reality we ALL live in, I have just become much more aware of it. I'll answer any inquiries you have I am ALIVE! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #22 August 26, 2011 Quote***. All believers can bind the power of demonic spirits and perform exorcisms. Quote Really? That sounds like some major "Supernatural Powers". If you have those abilities why can't you love like your Savior the Muslim man who killed your child? Why can't you bring yourself to love your neighbor as your"Savior " commanded? Why do you fear? More specificly why do you fear death at the hands of Muslims? Or do you believe that we should never war? Good points. After all. . . Why do christians have any fear at all? they should be brave to the point of suicidal indifference to consequences. They are supposively going to a better place._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,257 #23 August 26, 2011 QuoteI'll answer any inquiries you have Can you do magic?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 58 #24 August 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteI'll answer any inquiries you have Can you do magic? Magic is a form of demonic power. It comes from Satan and the abyss of darkness. BTW, no need to fear me. I am not scary, unless you are afraid of the light.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tkhayes 140 #25 August 26, 2011 one man's 'black magic' is another man's satanic worship. It's all bad, on all sides. radicalism. no time for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
jakee 1,257 #23 August 26, 2011 QuoteI'll answer any inquiries you have Can you do magic?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #24 August 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteI'll answer any inquiries you have Can you do magic? Magic is a form of demonic power. It comes from Satan and the abyss of darkness. BTW, no need to fear me. I am not scary, unless you are afraid of the light.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 140 #25 August 26, 2011 one man's 'black magic' is another man's satanic worship. It's all bad, on all sides. radicalism. no time for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
