RonD1120 58
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winsor 187
QuoteQuote
Here is a start. Forgive my transliteration, it shows up as "mashiach" here.
I did not read the entire document but, in reference to when the Mashiach will come the last three are close to being made manifest.
in a generation that is totally innocent or totally guilty;
in a generation that loses hope;
in a generation where children are totally disrespectful towards their parents and elders;
IMO, jaded, biased, supernatural, metaphysical, NT oriented as it is.
Since Christian Scriptures were either the product or under editorial control of Pagans, the overlay of superstition peculiar to the Cult of the MJZ kind of invalidates one's evaluation of things Hebrew.
BSBD,
Winsor
RonD1120 58
Quote
Since Christian Scriptures were either the product or under editorial control of Pagans, the overlay of superstition peculiar to the Cult of the MJZ kind of invalidates one's evaluation of things Hebrew.
BSBD,
Winsor
I added to my post above. I'm reading the document now and find some validation and confirmation. Hmmm, interesting.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
RonD1120 58
The first thing that comes to mind is that I have always been under the impression that you did not believe in God but rather kinda sorta followed the Jewish faith.
Now it appears that you do have a belief in God, for Jewish people only.
It seems that our differences stem from my personal experience versus your traditional teaching.
I know that I have encountered the Messiah on three separate occasions where the phenomenon were totally outside of my mental constructs or capabilities. Those experiences completely shifted my psychological paradigm and created a new sense of values, awareness, character and purpose in life.
It seems that now we journey a path together toward relationship with God the Father in Heaven. You believe the Mashiach is yet to come. I believe that He has been here and is coming again.
The website reference describes the characteristics and accomplishments of the Mashiach upon His arrival. This description is close to what Christians refer to as the Anti-Christ. When the event occurs it will take about 3 1/2 years to learn which version is accurate and true.
I pray it will happen during our lifetimes.
Now it appears that you do have a belief in God, for Jewish people only.
It seems that our differences stem from my personal experience versus your traditional teaching.
I know that I have encountered the Messiah on three separate occasions where the phenomenon were totally outside of my mental constructs or capabilities. Those experiences completely shifted my psychological paradigm and created a new sense of values, awareness, character and purpose in life.
It seems that now we journey a path together toward relationship with God the Father in Heaven. You believe the Mashiach is yet to come. I believe that He has been here and is coming again.
The website reference describes the characteristics and accomplishments of the Mashiach upon His arrival. This description is close to what Christians refer to as the Anti-Christ. When the event occurs it will take about 3 1/2 years to learn which version is accurate and true.
I pray it will happen during our lifetimes.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
winsor 187
QuoteThe first thing that comes to mind is that I have always been under the impression that you did not believe in God but rather kinda sorta followed the Jewish faith.
Now it appears that you do have a belief in God, for Jewish people only.
It seems that our differences stem from my personal experience versus your traditional teaching.
I know that I have encountered the Messiah on three separate occasions where the phenomenon were totally outside of my mental constructs or capabilities. Those experiences completely shifted my psychological paradigm and created a new sense of values, awareness, character and purpose in life.
It seems that now we journey a path together toward relationship with God the Father in Heaven. You believe the Mashiach is yet to come. I believe that He has been here and is coming again.
The website reference describes the characteristics and accomplishments of the Mashiach upon His arrival. This description is close to what Christians refer to as the Anti-Christ. When the event occurs it will take about 3 1/2 years to learn which version is accurate and true.
I pray it will happen during our lifetimes.
Allow me to clarify that I simply made reference to Hebrew mythology to illuminate the differences with the MJZ mythos.
When we pour wine and leave the door open for Elijah during a Seder, it is for the purposes of tradition only. There is no (read zero) expectation that any approximation of Elijah will actually appear and partake of the wine.
Similarly, the traditions regarding the Mashiach are socially important, but are throwbacks to the Late Bronze and Early Iron ages.
Jewish tradition, fine.
"Faith?," different animal.
"Belief?," not in my makeup. There are things I accept, some that I reject, and the catagories are subject to review upon receipt of further data. I do not "believe" anything.
BSBD,
Winsor
normiss 622
Are hallucinations of imaginary beings normal in religious beliefs?
I think THIS is part of my issues with it.
Going back to when I was young and going to church with my grandmother. The lady next to me hit the floor, flopping around like a fish while babbling wildly. People crying. A man up front asking for more money due to the excited environment. 
This is not normal human behavior.
jclalor 12
Quote***
QuoteQuote
Here is a start. Forgive my transliteration, it shows up as "mashiach" here.
I did not read the entire document but, in reference to when the Mashiach will come the last three are close to being made manifest.
in a generation that is totally innocent or totally guilty;
in a generation that loses hope;
in a generation where children are totally disrespectful towards their parents and elders;
IMO, jaded, biased, supernatural, metaphysical, NT oriented as it is.
Add: I'm reading it now and find that it relates to my beliefs.
Sounds like every generation since it was written.
RonD1120 58
Quote
Allow me to clarify that I simply made reference to Hebrew mythology to illuminate the differences with the MJZ mythos.
When we pour wine and leave the door open for Elijah during a Seder, it is for the purposes of tradition only. There is no (read zero) expectation that any approximation of Elijah will actually appear and partake of the wine.
Similarly, the traditions regarding the Mashiach are socially important, but are throwbacks to the Late Bronze and Early Iron ages.
Jewish tradition, fine.
"Faith?," different animal.
"Belief?," not in my makeup. There are things I accept, some that I reject, and the catagories are subject to review upon receipt of further data. I do not "believe" anything.
BSBD,
Winsor
OK, then my initial impression was/is fairly accurate.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
RonD1120 58
QuoteAre hallucinations of imaginary beings normal in religious beliefs?
I think THIS is part of my issues with it.
Going back to when I was young and going to church with my grandmother. The lady next to me hit the floor, flopping around like a fish while babbling wildly. People crying. A man up front asking for more money due to the excited environment.This is not normal human behavior.
You are absolutely correct.
In the mental health field, hallucinations are or tend to be recurring and produce a negative affect and effect. Those who suffer from hallucinations have difficulty in one or more areas of life e.g., personal health, family relationships, employment or society.
Isolated experiences are phenomenological.
Normal behavior is classified in three different ways, as far as I know.
1. Statistical, the measures of central tendency.
2. Moral, culturally relative.
3. Concept of self.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
normiss 622
Thanks Ron.
QuoteAre hallucinations of imaginary beings normal in religious beliefs?
I think THIS is part of my issues with it.
You're not familiar with the Native American Church?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Quote
Normal behavior is classified in three different ways, as far as I know.
1. Statistical, the measures of central tendency.
2. Moral, culturally relative.
3. Concept of self.
Damn! I hope I fit in there somewhere.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
QuoteGetting one's panties all wadded up over others beliefs = Stupidity
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
RonD1120 58
QuoteQuote
Normal behavior is classified in three different ways, as far as I know.
1. Statistical, the measures of central tendency.
2. Moral, culturally relative.
3. Concept of self.
Damn! I hope I fit in there somewhere.
Ah, rest assured, you do. It's all in the eye of the observer.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteQuoteGetting one's panties all wadded up over others beliefs = Stupidity
Nothing is wadded up here.
Christianity should not be taught in public schools under the guise of science. Ron and others have said that the bible is not a science book. I merely pointed out that a vocal majority of Christians do, in fact, see it as such and wish to teach it alongside legitimate science.
Keep it in the church.
That was my point.
Now, go straighten out your panties, ma'am.
Oh, in case you have failed to notice, this is a discussion/debate board. There is a discussion/debate going on. If a person post a view/belief on such a board, they should be prepared to be called out on their view/belief. I and everyone else is free to inject/interject their view/belief. If it bothers you so much... well.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
maadmax 0
winsor 187
pirana 0
QuoteI have too watch children die slow hideous deaths in the course of my work, on occasion, I have to make excuses for God to these kids. I have to look at them with a straight face and tell them to keep on praying and may be he will heal them.
Why do you tell them that? Is it how you really feel?
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
jclalor 12
QuoteQuoteQuoteI have too watch children die slow hideous deaths in the course of my work, on occasion, I have to make excuses for God to these kids. I have to look at them with a straight face and tell them to keep on praying and may be he will heal them.
Why do you tell them that? Is it how you really feel?
Of course that's not how I feel. I would would rather see a child die with some hope that there is something better when they die than telling them there is nothing.
Having to listen to an eight year old who is a recent quadriplegic, say that when God lets him walk again, that he will never complain about doing chores ever again or that he can't wait to just run all day, because he's having a hard time remembering what running was like, this makes me despise the religious groups that come and tell the children to pray and expect miracles.
I know that my work has made me really angry with the God thing, but sometimes, one needs to be exposed to real suffering to have a informed decision.
Coreece 190
Quotethis makes me despise the religious groups that come and tell the children to pray and expect miracles.
Do you despise yourself?
QuoteI have to look at them with a straight face and tell them to keep on praying and may be he will heal them.
QuoteI would would rather see a child die with some hope that there is something better when they die than telling them there is nothing.
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
You don't seem too much different than those "religious groups."
Do you despise them for their assurance and conviction?
I think you don't tell those children there is nothing, because in your heart, you know it's wrong...
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...
QuoteYou know, I try to live a good life, try to help others when I can, try not to hurt others. If there turns out to be some vicious god who created me with a brain that isn't wired to believe in him, who then punishes me eternally for not believing in him, then so be it. But I see no reason to believe that that is the case, so I'm not worried about it.
Why is God considered "vicious" in exacting due punishment for the crimes against His nature that we have committed? I don't understand that. It would be like me committing murder and thinking the Judge "vicious" for giving me life in prison or the death penalty. The punishment is due the criminal or else justice does not prevail. The "good" life you lead cannot make up for the crimes already charged against you. The "good" life you lead is based on our individual or societal norms and not on the one by which we will eventually be judged. I think a lot of the misunderstanding stems from our misunderstanding of God's justice.
pirana 0
QuoteWhy is God considered "vicious" in exacting due punishment for the crimes against His nature that we have committed? I don't understand that. It would be like me committing murder and thinking the Judge "vicious" for giving me life in prison or the death penalty. The punishment is due the criminal or else justice does not prevail.
So let's take an example. A child born with a horrible disease, lives a short and painful life, dies early - say at age 9.
What crime did he commit? Against God or anybody?
And how is that at all like you committing murder and complaining about your sentence?
Gotta be the worst analogy ever.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
Meso 38
No but you see, there's obviously a reason for that! It's just that you can't comprehend the almighty and powerful workings of God. He is obviously doing it to prove a point that is more important or has his reason. And who are you to try suggest otherwise!
And if that fails, you can always blame Satan.
I mean come'on, duh!
QuoteNo but you see, there's obviously a reason for that! It's just that you can't comprehend the almighty and powerful workings of God. He is obviously doing it to prove a point that is more important or has his reason. And who are you to try suggest otherwise!
And if that fails, you can always blame Satan.
I mean come'on, duh!
The wise and mature person seeks to understand first and not ridicule. You'd think that would be some sort of requirement for a moderator, you know, one who's supposed to "moderate."
I did not read the entire document but, in reference to when the Mashiach will come the last three are close to being made manifest.
in a generation that is totally innocent or totally guilty;
in a generation that loses hope;
in a generation where children are totally disrespectful towards their parents and elders;
IMO, jaded, biased, supernatural, metaphysical, NT oriented as it is.
Add: I'm reading it now and find that it relates to my beliefs.
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