sacex250 0
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QuoteQuoteDid you actually read the article that you linked?
Yes, I did - so, still no proof for your claim that virtually everyplace requires them, eh?Quote"There are thousands of cities around the country that have lockbox ordinances," Schilling said.
Schilling being the fire chief.
Census data defines over 29 thousand distinct places within the US (excluding Puerto Rico). Knox claims over 11k towns and military installations using their products - looks like you're a bit short on your claim, bub.
2 for 2 on the condescension for the folks in Iowa, though.
I Googled "cities requiring knox box" and got 14.5 million hits...
I lived in quite a few big cities, all have had knox box technology.
Like BillV said, if someone wants to get in a broken window is faster...it's just more convenient and cheaper to have a key available.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
Place box outside business. Do not place key in box. Problem solved for those who don't want to do it....
Quote.... The potential for abuse of the system is extremely low..
Wrong the Potential for abuse is extremely HIGH - the Current actual abuse may be low - but that could change in an instant.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
I agree. How many time have we been told by banks, PSN etc. That our personal data was secure only to find out later that it was stolen. I was forced to sign up for a service that is supposed to prevent identity theft when an account I had was hacked and my information stolen.
As far as this article goes, I think that this news organization, if you want to call it that, found a few mis-informed people who thought the keys to their apartments would be in the Knox Box and decided to write a hyperbolic story. I don't think the city is going to require keys to individual residences to be placed in the Know Box.
As far as this article goes, I think that this news organization, if you want to call it that, found a few mis-informed people who thought the keys to their apartments would be in the Knox Box and decided to write a hyperbolic story. I don't think the city is going to require keys to individual residences to be placed in the Know Box.
tkhayes 140
something we can agree on.
This is less of a 'government intrusion' than another step by the fire departments towards 'all encompassing power over the universe' which the fire officials are slowing moving towards.
Every year, fire code gets more and more strict and every year the cost of construction and meeting those fire codes keep going up and up and all in the name of 'safety'
Problem is that the people who write fire code are a private company in it for profit, who are influenced and bought by the people who make fire safety equipment. It's a racket.
Everyone is for safety, but at what cost? Zephyrhills fire marshals and inspectors have demonstrated their ridiculousness over the past 15 years or so to me - it's always the same thing
'what if?'
'what if?'
Those what-ifs' cost a lot of money and I put my foot down on the same sort of request from them, and said I would not do it. Amongst several other requests over the years.
fire deaths are extremely low in this country, something like 13-14 per million people each year.
If we spent the money that we spend on fire code on cancer or heart disease or getting people to stop smoking, then we would actually save some lives.....
This is less of a 'government intrusion' than another step by the fire departments towards 'all encompassing power over the universe' which the fire officials are slowing moving towards.
Every year, fire code gets more and more strict and every year the cost of construction and meeting those fire codes keep going up and up and all in the name of 'safety'
Problem is that the people who write fire code are a private company in it for profit, who are influenced and bought by the people who make fire safety equipment. It's a racket.
Everyone is for safety, but at what cost? Zephyrhills fire marshals and inspectors have demonstrated their ridiculousness over the past 15 years or so to me - it's always the same thing
'what if?'
'what if?'
Those what-ifs' cost a lot of money and I put my foot down on the same sort of request from them, and said I would not do it. Amongst several other requests over the years.
fire deaths are extremely low in this country, something like 13-14 per million people each year.
If we spent the money that we spend on fire code on cancer or heart disease or getting people to stop smoking, then we would actually save some lives.....
Quote>They, and the police, already have one...it's called a battering ram.
If that works for all cases, then great.
Well, in the big scheme of things, you are right. I don't imagine it would work for a bank vault.
So, can I assume that you think a lock box would work for all cases then?
Fire department? Police? Lock boxes? Get real.
When is the last time you heard of a fire department arriving in time to justify a lock box as opposed to a battering ram?
"Oh, hello Mr. Fire. Would you please hold off a little whilst I retrieve ea key from the lock box? We wouldn't want a damaged door added to the destruction, now would we?"
How about the police?
"Oh, hello inside! I've got a lock box code and I'm not afraid to use it! Open up before I use the key!"
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Quote
'what if?'
'what if?'
Given all those "what ifs", one could eventually be limited to living in a sterile, fire- and burglar-proof padded cell..for your own protection, of course.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
billvon 2,435
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>So, can I assume that you think a lock box would work for all cases then?
Nope. Would probably work for a lot, though.
>"Oh, hello Mr. Fire. Would you please hold off a little whilst I retrieve ea key from the
>lock box? We wouldn't want a damaged door added to the destruction, now would we?"
Or "hello, Mr. Fire. I'm terribly sorry, but some unscrupulous bloke seemed to have installed a reinforced door. Would you mind holding off a few hours whilst we fetch some more gadgets? Perhaps three. Won't be long, old chap; please don't spread to the neighbors just yet."
Nope. Would probably work for a lot, though.
>"Oh, hello Mr. Fire. Would you please hold off a little whilst I retrieve ea key from the
>lock box? We wouldn't want a damaged door added to the destruction, now would we?"
Or "hello, Mr. Fire. I'm terribly sorry, but some unscrupulous bloke seemed to have installed a reinforced door. Would you mind holding off a few hours whilst we fetch some more gadgets? Perhaps three. Won't be long, old chap; please don't spread to the neighbors just yet."
JohnRich 4
Quotethe Potential for abuse is extremely HIGH
That's the way I see it. They say the master keys would be in the hands of only a few fire and police officials, but in that case they aren't much good. Because every time a call somes in to a lock box location someone is going to have to go to their chief to get the key before responding to the scene. And that delay will cause whatever the problem is to get worse. So in order for the lockbox to be useful, the key has to be in the possession of every unit that could be a first responder to the scene. In other words, a master key has to be in every fire truck and every police car. And if you distribute the master key that far and wide, some are going to eventually make copies for themselves, or fall into the wrong hands. And policemen and firemen have financial difficulties and bad apples just like any other group of people. Bad cops and firefighters will use those keys to burgle businesses for illicit profits. Or if not them, others who obtain those keys from the cops and firefighters, like family members. If I was a businessman, I would not be comfortable letting an entire police force and every firefighter have free access to my premises any time they feel like it.
If they need to get in during an emergency, break down the door. My insurance will pay for it.
JohnRich 4
Quotesomething we can agree on..
Pardon me while I go look out the window.
In the last few days, tkhayes, quade and kallend have all agreed with me on something.
I'm going to look out the window, because surely pigs must be flying by outside.
rehmwa 2
Quotethe master keys would be in the hands of only a few fire and police officials
your argument is good
But, I ESPECIALLY don't want master keys in the hands of people really high up in government service - those guys are super creepy and probably more corrupt that your everyday cop or fireman.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
QuoteOr "hello, Mr. Fire. I'm terribly sorry, but some unscrupulous bloke seemed to have installed a reinforced door. Would you mind holding off a few hours whilst we fetch some more gadgets? Perhaps three. Won't be long, old chap; please don't spread to the neighbors just yet."
"Nah, Mr, Fireman. A couple more minutes and I'll be done here. You shoulda used the window. You were too late getting the lock box key here anyway."
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
QuoteQuotesomething we can agree on..
Pardon me while I go look out the window.
In the last few days, tkhayes, quade and kallend have all agreed with me on something.
I'm going to look out the window, because surely pigs must be flying by outside.
I don't know how you feel about me but you can add my name to the list as one agreeing with you.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
QuoteQuotesomething we can agree on..
Pardon me while I go look out the window.
In the last few days, tkhayes, quade and kallend have all agreed with me on something.
I'm going to look out the window, because surely pigs must be flying by outside.
you must be turning to the left, better stop and look at what is happening to you, because there is no way they could be moving right.
JohnRich 4
Plaintiff's exhibit #1:
How about criminal charges for the looting!
3 firefighters fired for looting Joplin businessesFull story: http://www.fox14tv.com/story/14929489/3-baxter-springs-firefighters-fired-for-looting
"Three firefighters are fired and the Baxter Springs fire chief is placed on administrative leave while an investigation is underway into the looting of Joplin businesses on the night of the May 22nd tornado..."
How about criminal charges for the looting!
QuotePlaintiff's exhibit #1:
3 firefighters fired for looting Joplin businessesFull story: http://www.fox14tv.com/story/14929489/3-baxter-springs-firefighters-fired-for-looting
"Three firefighters are fired and the Baxter Springs fire chief is placed on administrative leave while an investigation is underway into the looting of Joplin businesses on the night of the May 22nd tornado..."
How about criminal charges for the looting!
No indication in the text or video that Knox Boxes were involved. As such, is it fair to include in this discussion? Three policemen could have been involved, or three city streets workers. As it is, the firefighters could have thrown rocks through windows or walked into partially collapsed structures for their looting. The video clip even mentions that it wasn't clear if the firefighters were on duty or not.
But, just for argument (because this is SC, no?) let's just say I was to give you that this one case MAY have involved Knox Boxes: while I can't provide actual numbers, I would counter your one example of malfeasance with the (I would bet money) THOUSANDS of times every DAY across the US that a Knox Box saves a property owner money and/or aids emergency workers in their duties.
Elvisio "don't fear the Knox Box" Rodriguez
hcsvader 1
QuoteQuoteLock boxes - BAD IDEA
(time to move your home and business to some other city)
As a way to get into an access gate or building (note that the article talks about apartment buildings and commercial properties, not individual homes), I don't think it's a bad idea...but I'm curious if there's any information readily available about the Knox boxes being defeated in any crimes - might have to do a quick google on that.
Edit to add: Haven't found anything on a Knox box being defeated in a crime, but found a testimonial on the Knox website where it took firefighters over 2 hours to break into one - they finally got it open using a rescue saw.
Looking at the website I could get into that box in about 5 minutes using the tools I use every day at work. That being said, I could definatly remove any door from its frame in the same time.
Looking at some of the installation options for the box I dont think your average criminal is going to be able to breach it in short time without being noticed, like many have said, you could spend less time breaking down a door than you would getting into the box.
Good idea. I think so.
Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)
Actually, if there's any condencension on my part, it has to do with the idiot who wrote the article, especially the misleading headline.
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