Jose Guerena Killed: Arizona Cops Shoot Former Marine In Botched Pot Raid

[Darius11 12]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%7C66223

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On May 5 at around 9:30 a.m., several teams of Pima County, Ariz., police officers from at least four different police agencies armed with SWAT gear and an armored personnel carrier raided at least four homes as part of what at the time was described as an investigation into alleged marijuana trafficking. One of those homes belonged to 26-year-old Jose Guerena and his wife, Vanessa Guerena. The couple's 4-year-old son was also in the house at the time. Their 6-year-old son was at school.

As the SWAT team forced its way into his home, Guerena, a former Marine who served two tours of duty in Iraq, armed himself with his AR-15 rifle and told his wife and son to hide in a closet. As the officers entered, Guerena confronted them from the far end of a long, dark hallway. The police opened fire, releasing more than 70 rounds in about 7 seconds, at least 60 of which struck Guerena. He was pronounced dead a little over an hour later.

The Pima County Sheriff's Department initially claimed (PDF) Guerena fired his weapon at the SWAT team. They now acknowledge that not only did he not fire, the safety on his gun was still activated when he was killed. Guerena had no prior criminal record, and the police found nothing illegal in his home. After ushering out his wife and son, the police refused to allow paramedics to access Guerena for more than hour, leaving the young father to bleed to death, alone, in his own home.

FUCKING STUPID COPS.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

Follow up question to any criminal lawyers or DA out there.


If armed men who do not announce themselves as cops break my door down, and I end up killing them all. Who is at fault?

What are the rules?

I was under the impression that if I answer there knock, they would have to show ID, Show Warrant and then break in if I refused or did not respond in the first place?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[beowulf 1]

Look up "No knock warrants".

[dreamdancer 0]

having a gun was useless in this situation.

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[beowulf 1]

I have no idea what your point is, but there are lots of situations where a gun is useless.

[dreamdancer 0]

look up 'police state'

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Darius11 12]

A gun is not a solution in every situation. Its actually meant to be used only in very particular satiation’s.

However until there are people who can use a gun against me, it is my natural right to be able to protect my self with the same lethal force. That’s my personal stand and you can call that my religion because no argument in the world will ever change my mind on that.

I have the right to protect my life and the life of the ones I love with lethal force. Unless you can gurantee that no one can use lethal force against me and my loved ones (which you cant, no one can). It’s the rules of nature it is the rules of life. One of the simple truths.

As for what happened here
I think the cops got lucky (unfortunately) that they were invading a home of a veteran. He most likely flowed his lock perjures that’s why the gun was still on safe.

Most responsible guns owners and shooters will not put there finger on the trigger or disengage safety until they are sure of what they are shooting at and what’s behind it.
Simply put the deceased followed protocol and the cops panicked because they are shitty cops.

More importantly they denied him medical attention after he was shot.

This is not cool at all, and i wish he (the Vetern) was the one still standing.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

The only thing saving you from, and in a police state is your guns.

The 2nd is the right that guarantees all your other rights PERIOD.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[scruffy 0]

Sheriff Dupnik strikes again. That guy is ridiculous.

Peace, love and hoppiness

[dreamdancer 0]

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The only thing saving you from, and in a police state is your guns.

except the police will always outgun you - as in this case...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[SkyDekker 1,130]

It is the unfortunate cost of the 2nd amendment. Likely the lack of a weapon would have allowed this man to live.

[scruffy 0]

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It is the unfortunate cost of the 2nd amendment. Likely the lack of a weapon would have allowed this man to live.

What would have allowed the man to live was not doing no knock/no announce warrants against people with apparently no evidence of any criminal behavior, and a SWAT team that had some semblance of discretion.

Peace, love and hoppiness

[labrys 0]

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What would have allowed the man to live was not doing no knock/no announce warrants against people with apparently no evidence of any criminal behavior

If I'm reading the article correctly, the police didn't have a no-knock warrant:

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Last week, for example, Storie told the Daily Star that the investigation leading up to the raids was from the start about home invasions and "drug rip-offs" -- not just marijuana distribution, as the Sheriff's Department initially indicated. Storie also says the police vehicles ran their lights and sirens until they were parked in the Guerenas' driveway, and that a police officer knocked on the door and announced himself for a full 45 seconds before the SWAT team forced its way inside. He emphasized that the raid was "in no way" a "no-knock" operation.

Storie is laying groundwork for the argument that Guerena should have known that the men breaking into his home were police. That he still met them with his rifle meant he was intent on killing them, which of course would justify their rash of gunfire. For good measure, Storie added that just before they opened fire, several officers reported hearing Guerena say, "I've got something for you; I've gotten something for you guys."

There are a number of problems here, beginning with the lights, the sirens, and the knocking. If these warrants were, as Storie claims, for suspected dangerous, well-armed members of a home invasion ring, why would they give a violent suspect such ample warning that they're coming? Why wouldn't the police have sought and obtained a no-knock warrant? This is precisely the scenario for which no-knock entry is warranted -- to apprehend suspected dangerous people who may present an immediate threat to police and the public.

This week I also spoke with Ray Epps, a retired Marine sergeant from Mesa, Arizona and president of the Arizona chapter of Oath Keepers, the controversial organization of police and military personnel who have vowed not to enforce laws they believe are unconstitutional. After hearing about Guerena's death, Epps drove to Tucson to investigate.

"We spoke with several of the neighbors," Epps says. "And none of them -- none of them -- heard any sirens that morning. Every one of them told us they didn't hear anything, no knocking, no shouting, until the shooting started. They didn't hear anything until the shooting started."

Owned by Remi #?

[scruffy 0]

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If I'm reading the article correctly, the police didn't have a no-knock warrant:

This is coming from the side that sealed the warrants from public scrutiny after they got heat, and made claims that the deceased shot first when the weapon was still on safe.

I think at this point I'll take the neighborhoods story that they didn't hear anything till the shooting started.

Peace, love and hoppiness

[labrys 0]

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I think at this point I'll take the neighborhoods story that they didn't hear anything till the shooting started.

And I agree with you about that.

I do not agree with you that a no-knock warrant was the problem here. It seems more likely that the problem isn't with the nature of the warrant but with the behavior of the police.

Owned by Remi #?

[SpeedRacer 1]

Another marijuana-related death.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[wsd 0]

Quote

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The only thing saving you from, and in a police state is your guns.

except the police will always outgun you - as in this case...

You obviously don't know anything on this subject.

[SkyDekker 1,130]

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What would have allowed the man to live was not doing no knock/no announce warrants against people with apparently no evidence of any criminal behavior, and a SWAT team that had some semblance of discretion.

Mistakes get made, sometimes a gun helps, some times it makes the situation worse. I see this as the latter. hnce, my original comment that it is a cost of the 2nd Amendment.

[wsd 0]

It also sounds as if the cops knew he was a veteran and went in intending to kill him if he should present any threat.

In this case they were scared and did a mag dump on him using a Beta C mag and a full auto weapon.

Not exactly a shoot to stop the threat move, more like a shoot and make damned sure he was dead tactic.

[SkyDekker 1,130]

Most people justified that behaviour previously when an unarmed man was shot based on knowledge of prior combat experience.

[wsd 0]

I however had not done so.

In fact he was justified in killing all of them.

His reluctance to do harm to others was his undoing.

[wsd 0]

And for dream dancer, he must not know very many people who are well armed.

It is not very difficult to "outgun" the police.

They do not possess the training and skill that many people who are leading ordinary lives do.

I know this because I have done training with SWAT and FBI, they are human too.

Nobody is without a weakness.

[SkyDekker 1,130]

Ah, Internet Rambo.

Spectre, spectre, is that you?

[billvon 2,407]

>His reluctance to do harm to others was his undoing.

True. Had he had less reluctance, we could had a handful of dead cops and a dead Marine instead of just a dead Marine. I guess all you can do is hope for that the next time.

[airdvr 198]

Awful lot of faith in a Huffington Post article.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne