mpohl 1 #51 March 31, 2011 Just another reason to leave this country behind. (And thanks, I have a PhD in chemistry and an MBA from a well-known Institute of Technology.) I am trying to get my family away from the lunatics (cf. tea party, republicans, etc. etc.) as fast as I can. Thank God, we have the option to relocate to another 27 countries w/o paperwork. Best wishes to my fellow Americans who lack the option to ever leave the asylum... Quote>Are the wages you work for your own property or does some portion of >them rightfully belong to some other entity? Depends on whether you want to live in a country that provides you with things. If you do, then expect to have to pay for them. Expecting something for nothing is not reasonable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #52 March 31, 2011 Quote To those who do NOT want to pay to make for a civilized and educated populace... I think a one year "vacation" to Somalia is in order. It seems the Somali's have cast off all that silly government taxation, with little or no education, little or no remaining infrastructure, and a lack of any rule of law outside of gang/tribal violence within their realm of influence. It seems to be a LIBERTARIAN nirvana... now if all these so called LIEBERTARIANS around here would just head on over for that vacation, perhaps they might start to appreaciate this country. Libertarianism does not equal anarchy. That's why there are two terms for it. To assume they are equal is either done out of ignorance or malice. As for Liebertarianism, I was never a fan of Liberman. -- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #53 March 31, 2011 Quote Quote To those who do NOT want to pay to make for a civilized and educated populace... I think a one year "vacation" to Somalia is in order. It seems the Somali's have cast off all that silly government taxation, with little or no education, little or no remaining infrastructure, and a lack of any rule of law outside of gang/tribal violence within their realm of influence. It seems to be a LIBERTARIAN nirvana... now if all these so called LIEBERTARIANS around here would just head on over for that vacation, perhaps they might start to appreaciate this country. Libertarianism does not equal anarchy. That's why there are two terms for it. To assume they are equal is either done out of ignorance or malice. As for Liebertarianism, I was never a fan of Liberman. OH PUH LEEEEEZE a whole bunch of people who stylize themselves as liebertarians..are closer to being anarchists than they are to anything else. Then we have the legions of self identified libertarians.. who have never voted for a libertarian in their life ... preferring instead to vote a straight (or is that really gay) ul;tra conservative rePUBIClown tea bagging ticket. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #54 March 31, 2011 Quote OH PUH LEEEEEZE a whole bunch of people who stylize themselves as liebertarians..are closer to being anarchists than they are to anything else. Then we have the legions of self identified libertarians.. who have never voted for a libertarian in their life ... preferring instead to vote a straight (or is that really gay) ul;tra conservative rePUBIClown tea bagging ticket. so you're going to paint all Libertarians with the anarchy brush.... nice broad generalization. Most of the people I know that call themselves libertarians are socially liberal, and fiscally conservative. You're hanging out with extremists apparently. We could say you were an extremist also. (you're hanging out with them... you must be just like them... generalizations don't work)-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #55 March 31, 2011 One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Even to this day, many Europeans' view of the US is, rightfully, influenced by the plight of Sacco and Vanzetti. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_and_Vanzetti http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcgYwTnBIIQ&fmt=22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0sYAU96FY0&feature=related&fmt=22 a whole bunch of people who stylize themselves as liebertarians..are closer to being anarchists than they are to anything else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tr027 0 #56 March 31, 2011 QuoteI am trying to get my family away from the lunatics (cf. tea party, republicans, etc. etc.) as fast as I can. Thank God, we have the option to relocate to another 27 countries w/o paperwork. Best wishes to my fellow Americans who lack the option to ever leave the asylum... Which are your top 3 alternative countries?? I'd like to know very much. Thanks, That's what all this does is push talented people to leave and go support countries with less oppressive governments who are friendlier with economic and personal freedom."The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #57 March 31, 2011 Quote One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Even to this day, many Europeans' view of the US is, rightfully, influenced by the plight of Sacco and Vanzetti. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_and_Vanzetti http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcgYwTnBIIQ&fmt=22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0sYAU96FY0&feature=related&fmt=22 a whole bunch of people who stylize themselves as liebertarians..are closer to being anarchists than they are to anything else. clicky.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #58 March 31, 2011 Quote That's what all this does is push talented people to leave and go support countries with less oppressive governments who are friendlier with economic and personal freedom. Seem to be a bunch of north African nations that leap out in my mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #59 March 31, 2011 Quote That's what all this does is push talented people to leave and go support countries with less oppressive governments who are friendlier with economic and personal freedom. If their greed outweighs their patriotism, it's probably best that they go and don't come back.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tr027 0 #60 April 1, 2011 QuoteIf their greed outweighs their patriotism, it's probably best that they go and don't come back. imho, I would think someone would only want that to happen to their own country when their pride outweighs their prudent judgment of what's best for the people. It's a reversal of what made the country great and so the effects will of course be the opposite. Instead of people coming here for a better life, they leave for a better life. Productivity goes down, and since the tax base shrinks we have less of others people money to spend on what the lobbyists want."The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #61 April 1, 2011 >It's a reversal of what made the country great and so the effects will of >course be the opposite. If only we could return to the days when no one was willing to support their country, perhaps we could be great again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #62 April 1, 2011 QuoteWould it suprise you to know that the Federal Government operated for over 100 years without any income tax? Washington still does operate without any income tax."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #63 April 1, 2011 QuoteQuoteIf their greed outweighs their patriotism, it's probably best that they go and don't come back. imho, I would think someone would only want that to happen to their own country when their pride outweighs their prudent judgment of what's best for the people. It's a reversal of what made the country great and so the effects will of course be the opposite. Instead of people coming here for a better life, they leave for a better life. Productivity goes down, and since the tax base shrinks we have less of others people money to spend on what the lobbyists want. When our country was ascending to its greatest, one in three Americans belonged to a labor union and working conditions and income were improving.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #64 April 1, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf their greed outweighs their patriotism, it's probably best that they go and don't come back. imho, I would think someone would only want that to happen to their own country when their pride outweighs their prudent judgment of what's best for the people. It's a reversal of what made the country great and so the effects will of course be the opposite. Instead of people coming here for a better life, they leave for a better life. Productivity goes down, and since the tax base shrinks we have less of others people money to spend on what the lobbyists want. When our country was ascending to its greatest, one in three Americans belonged to a labor union and working conditions and income were improving. I think the favored form of transportation was horse and buggy back then wasn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #65 April 1, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIf their greed outweighs their patriotism, it's probably best that they go and don't come back. imho, I would think someone would only want that to happen to their own country when their pride outweighs their prudent judgment of what's best for the people. It's a reversal of what made the country great and so the effects will of course be the opposite. Instead of people coming here for a better life, they leave for a better life. Productivity goes down, and since the tax base shrinks we have less of others people money to spend on what the lobbyists want. When our country was ascending to its greatest, one in three Americans belonged to a labor union and working conditions and income were improving. I think the favored form of transportation was horse and buggy back then wasn't it? In the first 2/3 of the 20th Century? I don't think so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #66 April 1, 2011 >I think the favored form of transportation was horse and buggy back then >wasn't it? Nope. In the 1900's, electric trolleys (what we now call light rail) were the dominant form of transportation in cities. It's what made cities like LA possible. In the country, short distance travel was primarily by walking and by bicycle. Horses were sometimes used, but they were slower, more expensive and harder to care for. Trains and waterways provided long distance transportation in rural areas. Even today that legacy lives on in city distribution; early cities tend to cling to rivers, and in many parts of the Midwest, towns pop up in straight lines every 50-100 miles (which was about the range of wood-powered locomotives.) Then, of course, the car arrived - and everything began to change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #67 April 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIf their greed outweighs their patriotism, it's probably best that they go and don't come back. imho, I would think someone would only want that to happen to their own country when their pride outweighs their prudent judgment of what's best for the people. It's a reversal of what made the country great and so the effects will of course be the opposite. Instead of people coming here for a better life, they leave for a better life. Productivity goes down, and since the tax base shrinks we have less of others people money to spend on what the lobbyists want. When our country was ascending to its greatest, one in three Americans belonged to a labor union and working conditions and income were improving. I think the favored form of transportation was horse and buggy back then wasn't it? No. There are none so blind as those that refuse to see.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #68 April 4, 2011 Quote Just another reason to leave this country behind. (And thanks, I have a PhD in chemistry and an MBA from a well-known Institute of Technology.) I am trying to get my family away from the lunatics (cf. tea party, republicans, etc. etc.) as fast as I can. Thank God, we have the option to relocate to another 27 countries w/o paperwork. Best wishes to my fellow Americans who lack the option to ever leave the asylum... This reminds me of "Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish."" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #69 April 4, 2011 QuoteWhen our country was ascending to its greatest, one in three Americans belonged to a labor union and working conditions and income were improving. I think our greatness (dominance) was mostly the result that we went for so long without having our country destroyed by war. Unions did some very good and noble things for the lower classes; but had little to do with achieving greatness. Since our civil war, we have managed to avoid having any significant conflict fought on North American soil. We emereged from WWII absolutely dominant because so much of the rest of the free world was decimated, not because we are so much smarter than everybody else; and certainly not because of union activism. Proof of that is how easily much of the rest of the world caught up once they rebuilt. 100 years of not being bombed and 5 decades with essentially no competition ended in the 70's. Our economy, our lifestyle, and our dominance will never be like that again; unless another worldwide conflict can be managed so that all the rest of the developed world gets flattened again. We could then take greatness to a new all-time high. The Freemasons, Skull & Bones, Trilateral Commision, Illuminati, Templars, military-industrial complex, Tea Party, FOX News, and others are probably working on that strategy right now." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #70 April 4, 2011 QuoteQuote Just another reason to leave this country behind. (And thanks, I have a PhD in chemistry and an MBA from a well-known Institute of Technology.) I am trying to get my family away from the lunatics (cf. tea party, republicans, etc. etc.) as fast as I can. Thank God, we have the option to relocate to another 27 countries w/o paperwork. Best wishes to my fellow Americans who lack the option to ever leave the asylum... This reminds me of "Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish." No big loss.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #71 April 4, 2011 >No big loss. Agreed. As long as we can hang on to the unemployed, pro-war, anti-education, anti-science Tea Partyers we'll be fine. All those overeducated Ivory Tower scientists and engineers are just a drag on society. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #72 April 5, 2011 Quote>No big loss. Agreed. As long as we can hang on to the unemployed, pro-war, anti-education, anti-science Tea Partyers we'll be fine. All those overeducated Ivory Tower scientists and engineers are just a drag on society. *yawn*Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #73 April 5, 2011 Quote>No big loss. Agreed. As long as we can hang on to the unemployed, pro-capitulation, anti-free thought, anti-choice Eco Freak Green Partyers we'll be fine. All those overeducated Big Business CEOs and entrepreneurs are just a drag on society. Wow, aren't silly assed stereotypes fun? Too bad I couldn't edit it in your post to FIFY.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #74 April 6, 2011 Quote jimbrown has run from this thread now that the counter arguments have come out. Actually.. , I have a life. I don't spend all of my time on the boards. Sorry . Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #75 April 6, 2011 Quote Quote If you don't want to pay your share for any of this, why should you derive any of the benefit? It seems to me that everyone who claims that taxes are unconstitutional or "theft" should present explicit alternative mechanisms for either funding such services, or ensuring that those who can pay but refuse to do so derive no benefit, direct or indirect, from these services. I liked your answer a LOT... I pay my taxes which support many things which benefit my neighbors and I. I want to live around an educated populace that can be productive members of society. I pay for government services which sometimes get to be onerous, but does lead to living in a civilized society. Quote Amazon, would you be suprised to learn that every dollar paid to income tax goes toward paying the intrest on the debt? Yes that is very true. Not one income tax dollar goes toward anything else Peace, Jim B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
