Wikileaks nomination for Nobel....

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Do you see a time when a government (or some people in it) might want to keep things secret that the public should know about?

Wendy P.

We've already seen that time. Most recently both Clinton and Bush tried to keep illegal activities secret. Unfortunately it happens all the time.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[popsjumper 2]

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. . . and Assange is the person that not only has the right, but the authority and responsibility to determine what that level is, and determine who should be informed.

Turtle, that argument is bogus.
Assange only has the means.

YOU (collective) decide who might have the authority and the responsibility...that's beyond the scope of Wikileaks.

For me?
We ALL have the authority and responsibility to expose underhanded g'ment activity.

U.S. goverment = The Mafia.
Is that what you want?

They do a lot of good for a lot of people, right?
But on the other hand....No, you wouldn't want anyone to know about that part.

And all you military people worried about somebody being exposed and killed on the espionage front on the one hand and then turn a blind eye to war's "collateral damage" on the other.

Hypocritical, maybe?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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You REALLY think that there was no damage done to negotiations?

If a common citizen is upset by what was posted, what do you think an ambassador is thinking?

A foreign ambassador just might be thinking, "Holy Allah in a pot roast! Maybe NOW the U.S. will deal more honestly and not blow smoke up my ass anymore by lying, cheating and stealing."

A U.S. ambassador might be thinking, "Oh shit. I better not be blowing smoke up this guy's ass anymore by lying cheating and stealing."

A Chinese ambassador might be thinking, "Look at the dumbfucks scramble!"

A French ambassador might be thinking. "Damn! This game is over. I'm throwing in the flag towel."

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[turtlespeed 212]

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You REALLY think that there was no damage done to negotiations?

If a common citizen is upset by what was posted, what do you think an ambassador is thinking?

A foreign ambassador just might be thinking, "Holy Allah in a pot roast! Maybe NOW the U.S. will deal more honestly and not blow smoke up my ass anymore by lying, cheating and stealing."

A U.S. ambassador might be thinking, "Oh shit. I better not be blowing smoke up this guy's ass anymore by lying cheating and stealing."

A Chinese ambassador might be thinking, "Look at the dumbfucks scramble!"

A French ambassador might be thinking. "Damn! This game is over. I'm throwing in the flag towel."

You have never negotiated to buy a car have you?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[popsjumper 2]

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You have never negotiated to buy a car have you?

Ummmm...relevance?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[turtlespeed 212]

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You have never negotiated to buy a car have you?

Ummmm...relevance?

Ever played poker?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kelpdiver 2]

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Yes, a country has a right to know when its government is lying to the citizens.

Yet you say that Ellsberg got off easy? Which is it?

The government bungled the case from start to finish. He could have been convicted and served a lengthy sentence. Clear enough?

Clear as mud.

you first say that he got off easy for what he did.

Then you say that the people should know when their government is lying to them.

His action was to reveal 20+ years of lying. So why is it that you feel he got off easy, rather than being locked away? The fact that the government was clumsy in prosecution is irrelevant to this.

[turtlespeed 212]

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Yes, a country has a right to know when its government is lying to the citizens.

Yet you say that Ellsberg got off easy? Which is it?

The government bungled the case from start to finish. He could have been convicted and served a lengthy sentence. Clear enough?

Clear as mud.

you first say that he got off easy for what he did.

Then you say that the people should know when their government is lying to them.

His action was to reveal 20+ years of lying. So why is it that you feel he got off easy, rather than being locked away? The fact that the government was clumsy in prosecution is irrelevant to this.

I suppose it is because justice was not served, as is so common now-a-days.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Yes, a country has a right to know when its government is lying to the citizens.

Yet you say that Ellsberg got off easy? Which is it?

The government bungled the case from start to finish. He could have been convicted and served a lengthy sentence. Clear enough?

Clear as mud.

you first say that he got off easy for what he did.

Then you say that the people should know when their government is lying to them.

His action was to reveal 20+ years of lying. So why is it that you feel he got off easy, rather than being locked away? The fact that the government was clumsy in prosecution is irrelevant to this.

Maybe if you realized that my, or your, personal views are not neccessarily the same as the law you would not be so confused. Just because you, or I, feel something is just and right doesn't men it is legal.
Was what he did right? Yep.
Was it legal? Nope.
Once again i will try to explain so you can understand:

He had proof of lies.
He gave proof to print.
He broke the law to do this.
He could have served a lot of time in jail, but the feds fucked up the case and he got off.

There it is in a nutshell. I even made sure to use single syllable words so you would not get confused.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Maybe if you realized that my, or your, personal views are not neccessarily the same as the law you would not be so confused. Just because you, or I, feel something is just and right doesn't men it is legal.

you still can't answer the fucking question.

This thread isn't about legal, it's about right. We're not lawyers in mock trial forum.

I asked you to clarify why you think he got off easy (which is an opinion you state, with the obvious implication that you wanted him punished for the release of information) versus your statement that the people should know this information.

Your inability to express thoughts clearly is your problem, but one that anyone trying to discuss/debate with you must deal with.

Sorry, can't write this out with small syllable words.

[freethefly 6]

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Maybe you should enter the real world, period.

Golly gee, little Mikey, maybe you should use more up to date information (Hint: you really need to enter the real world to find it.) So much of what you post has been discounted as there is no proof that there was ever a working relationship between Bin Laden and Saddam.

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Ideological differences between Iraq and Al Qaeda were evident in
a February 12, 2003, bin Laden statement referring to Saddam Hussein’s regime —
dominated by his secular Arab nationalist Baath Party — as “socialist and infidel,”
although the statement also gave some support to the Administration argument when
bin Laden exhorted the Iraqi people to resist impending U.S. military action.16

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/RL32217.pdf

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Maybe if you realized that my, or your, personal views are not neccessarily the same as the law you would not be so confused. Just because you, or I, feel something is just and right doesn't men it is legal.

you still can't answer the fucking question.

This thread isn't about legal, it's about right. We're not lawyers in mock trial forum.

I asked you to clarify why you think he got off easy (which is an opinion you state, with the obvious implication that you wanted him punished for the release of information) versus your statement that the people should know this information.

Your inability to express thoughts clearly is your problem, but one that anyone trying to discuss/debate with you must deal with.

Sorry, can't write this out with small syllable words.

I answered your question with full clarification.
Not my problem if you have comprehension issues.
Maybe this will help. http://www.understandmore.com/i-adults.htm

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 2,466]

Both of you - enough. Your one warning.

[mnealtx 0]

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Maybe you should enter the real world, period.

Golly gee, little Mikey, maybe you should use more up to date information (Hint: you really need to enter the real world to find it.)

Hint: I'm not over here in the middle of Albanian Muslims for the great vacation opportunities, sport. Maybe you should check your ASSumptions before they bite you there yet again.

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So much of what you post has been discounted as there is no proof that there was ever a working relationship between Bin Laden and Saddam.

So, we've gone from "there were no terrorists" (disproven) to "Bin Laden had an intense hatred" (disproven) to "they never had a working relationship"?

You sure are getting a lot of exercise hauling those goalposts around - maybe you should quit while you're way, WAY behind.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[RonD1120 58]

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.....and some others are supporting a low-life who is willing to place American lives in unnecessary danger on the world's stage.

for the fourth time:
No one has yet named a single incident of someone, something being put in danger nor a life that has been jeopardized, nor a foreign relationship that has been damaged by what Wikileaks has done.

What you do not comprehend is, in a military situation, the potential to jeopardize the safety of personnel and/or the mission is a punishable offense.

Assange is willing to harm others. You support him. Bad on you for bragging about supporting an enemy of the United States of America.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[tkhayes 145]

Assange has no charges filed against him in the USA. No departemnt of the govt has issued a warrant of any kind. No act of Congress has declared war on him. Nothing of any sort has been filed against him by the US government.

So your statemnent that he is an 'enemy' of the state is simply your own opinion, which differs from mine. Rhetoric I am afraid.

Rape, Enemy, Traitor, Treason - all sounds pretty good huh?

So does Hero, Nobel, Justice, human rights, transparency.....

Oh yes, I have a Constitutional right to say that by the way, and I have a Constitutional right to support pretty much whomever I like, with a few exceptions,

Now when he is declared an enemy, and he gets his day in court with formal charges brought against him - I might change my tune depending on the evidence.

And most likely it ill be a secret trial with secret witnesses and secret evidence - which is exactly what I (and he) abhors so much). Kind of like all those guys in Gitmo.....if you cannot make your case, the law says they are 'not guilty'.

So glad that your 'gut feel' is so friggin' correct that you are willing to kill/attack/execute/whatever anyone who opposes yoiu in the name of the state..... regardless of whether you are right or wrong.

[freethefly 6]

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ASSumptions

Nice little PA, Mike. How childish.

I'm done with this thread as all to often it comes down personal attacks, which I am also guilty of.
I much rather stay off of that road.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Some people get so caught up in demanding that their own rights are recognized and enforced that they fail to see they are trampling on the rights of others.
You may have the right to know when your government is being bad, but I have the right for my government not have sensitive information about legal dealings disclosed to the public, especially by someone who does not have the means, the right, nor the intelligence to decide what should be made public and what shouldn't.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[tkhayes 145]

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...but I have the right for my government not have sensitive information about legal dealings disclosed to the public....

Really, where is that right defined......?

Again, your opinion. Earlier posted corrected me on something which was quite spot on - alot of the Constitution is not about what personal rights ARE, but more about what the Government CANNOT do.

I thought that was a great way of stating it.

I agree with two posts ago - this thread is done for the most part. Assange is hated by many, loved by many. Traitor or Hero - with extreme views on either side.

When he gets brought up on charges, proven in open court, and gets his day like anyone else would or should - I am all about it. When someone names the person who got killed or injured because of information he leaked, then I am also all about it.

Diplomatic relations? I could give a shit - it is mostly a friggin' side show - look at the UN and tell me that ANY of what is said between governments really matters. (It's not what you say, it's more about what you actually do)


Until that time, people can squawk all they want - it holds no water.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Like any government function, and many business deals, it is what is said and not made public that often holds the key to success or failure.
One thing that is for certain: Assange, not being a citizen of the US, had no more right to release any of that information than I do to release any of yours.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Some people get so caught up in demanding that their own rights are recognized and enforced that they fail to see they are trampling on the rights of others.

You'll need to express that in specifics.

By definition, one's rights extend as far as possible without harming others' rights.

But you don't have a right to not be offended, so Nazis can march, and Westboro assholes can protest near funerals. You do have a right not to get trampled in a panic caused by false incitement.

[shropshire 0]

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Like any government function, and many business deals, it is what is said and not made public that often holds the key to success or failure.
One thing that is for certain: Assange, not being a citizen of the US, had no more right to release any of that information than I do to release any of yours.

He didn't NEED a right ... In fact, there are no 'Rights' associated with what he did or could do. He had the documents given to him and he can do or not do what ever he wants. And you, continuing to get 'bent out of shape' does nothing to change that.

So watch your blood pressure - there's nowt that you can do so you may as well 'chillax'

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[turtlespeed 212]

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Assange has no charges filed against him in the USA. No departemnt of the govt has issued a warrant of any kind. No act of Congress has declared war on him. Nothing of any sort has been filed against him by the US government.

So your statemnent that he is an 'enemy' of the state is simply your own opinion, which differs from mine. Rhetoric I am afraid.
.

I consider OJ Simpson an enemy of the state - yet he was not convicted.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Like any government function, and many business deals, it is what is said and not made public that often holds the key to success or failure.
One thing that is for certain: Assange, not being a citizen of the US, had no more right to release any of that information than I do to release any of yours.

He didn't NEED a right ... In fact, there are no 'Rights' associated with what he did or could do. He had the documents given to him and he can do or not do what ever he wants. And you, continuing to get 'bent out of shape' does nothing to change that.

So watch your blood pressure - there's nowt that you can do so you may as well 'chillax'

The documents were stolen. Knowingly recieving stolen property is a crime in virtually every country on earth. And so, since they were stolen and he did know they were stolen he had no right to do anything with them and plenty of legal reson not to.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Some people get so caught up in demanding that their own rights are recognized and enforced that they fail to see they are trampling on the rights of others.

You'll need to express that in specifics.

By definition, one's rights extend as far as possible without harming others' rights.

But you don't have a right to not be offended, so Nazis can march, and Westboro assholes can protest near funerals. You do have a right not to get trampled in a panic caused by false incitement.

Ok, fair enough.
Your right to know about illegal dealings of the US ends where my right to have my government's sensitive and legal documents kept secret starts.
Keep in mind that once information is made public, it cannot be made secret again.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.