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Kennedy

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>I was speaking of security more in the line of being able to protect
>ourselves from those people that would have us blown up or under the
>rubble of freshly destroyed buildings.

If you want to defend that particular "border," cockpits would seem to be a better place to make your stand. (And, indeed, is the place such people would be stopped nowadays.)

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>I was speaking of security more in the line of being able to protect
>ourselves from those people that would have us blown up or under the
>rubble of freshly destroyed buildings.

If you want to defend that particular "border," cockpits would seem to be a better place to make your stand. (And, indeed, is the place such people would be stopped nowadays.)



Really?

You can't think of any better place to thwart a terrorist attack than a cockpit? I'm pretty sure that there are security measures in place to protect the cockpits. Besides, I can't remember the last time that a shoe bomberwas in the cockpit.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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opening of the border will not stop unauthorised entry . some won't or can't be documented, and some smuggling etc will still be present !



Anyone can be documented. Fingerprints, DNA, and a photograph on the way in. If they don't have documents when they get to the border, they do now. "Registered Migrant Worker" card complete with photo and fingerprint, and number to cross reference with DNA sample. If someone refuses, they're denied entry.

Sure, there may be a small amount of smuggling, but overall, what purpose would it serve? If people can come here to work or visit, why sneak in? It would be greatly reduced from the number sneaking in now, and we've got so many undocumented people here that we're obviously doing a miserable job of securing our borders. Securing them is insanely expensive and difficult, or we'd have done it already. Since we can't seem to do it in a feasible way, this seems like a good alternative solution. Not a perfect one, but better than what we're doing.

So, just to make sure I understand what you're saying- allowing authorized entry is bad because a handful of people may try to enter unauthorized anyway and avoid low-hassle legal channels of entry, and that would be worse than our current situation, where millions of people are getting smuggled in through illegal channels now because there isn't a reasonable legal way for them to get in?

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when you say open border i imagine tearing down the fences , gutting border patrol , free for all. if the border is unencumbered what is the incentive for getting documented . if you keep the fences and the border patrol , might as well keep status quo . there are ways already to legally cross the border , but the illegals have no interest in that !

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when you say open border i imagine tearing down the fences , gutting border patrol , free for all. if the border is unencumbered what is the incentive for getting documented . if you keep the fences and the border patrol , might as well keep status quo . there are ways already to legally cross the border , but the illegals have no interest in that !



No. When I say "open border", I mean stop restricting the people allowed in based on numbers or country of origin or some random list of criteria invented by people in Washington that think we need more PhDs and nobody willing to get their hands dirty in a field.

A lot of people assume that there are ways to legally cross the border, but for the vast majority of people, specifically the migrants that cross the border to find work, those avenues are closed to them and they cannot legally cross the border through any of our available methods (and our methods aren't easy even for those that do meet the requirements! sometimes it takes decades). It's not that they have no interest in coming here legally. Most of them are very interested. We've just made it impossible for most of them to come legally, but they're desperate enough to come anyway.

When I say "open border" I mean:

Hello! Line up, state and spell your name, fingerprints please, take your picture here, DNA swab, here's your "registered migrant worker" card, welcome to America, best of luck!

Oh, you're willing to serve in our military? Talk to the gentleman in the uniform right there! Meet the requirements? Sign here and get your citizenship or permanent residency card when you're done with your obligation, with our thanks for your service.

Returning for the harvest season? Migrant card please. Thumbprint here please. It's a match. Card's in our system, everything matches, no red flags. Everything looks good! Welcome back!

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>You can't think of any better place to thwart a terrorist attack than a
>cockpit?

There are definitely better places - like in the aisle before they get to the cockpit. Both are a LOT easier to defend than 18,000 miles of border.

> I'm pretty sure that there are security measures in place to protect the
>cockpits.

Yes, now there are.

> Besides, I can't remember the last time that a shoe bomberwas in the
> cockpit.

And I can't remember the last time a shoe bomber crossed the Mexican border.

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>You can't think of any better place to thwart a terrorist attack than a
>cockpit?

There are definitely better places - like in the aisle before they get to the cockpit. Both are a LOT easier to defend than 18,000 miles of border.

> I'm pretty sure that there are security measures in place to protect the
>cockpits.

Yes, now there are.

> Besides, I can't remember the last time that a shoe bomberwas in the
> cockpit.

And I can't remember the last time a shoe bomber crossed the Mexican border.



Gotcha . . .


This is not hypothetical.

“Members of Hezbollah, the Lebanon-based terrorist organization, have already entered the United States across our southwest border,” declares “A Line in the Sand,” a January report of the House Homeland Security subcommittee on Investigations, then-chaired by Texas Republican Michael McCaul.

Just onbe article that was on the first page of thousands on Google.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21139
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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disclaimer: No, I don't want to close the border or deport everyone who doesn't look like me, but this country needs to secure the border so it can control who and what comes across.



Or open it completely and document everyone so we know who is here, get rid of any financial incentives to come here for a free ride, make the penalties for hiring anyone illegally here very high, and let the guys in and out to pick strawberries. One of the reasons they don't go home after the growing season is that we make it so difficult to come back, so once people are in, they stay, and we end up with the mess of fake IDs and having no idea who's here. A lot of the migrant workers would love to go home for the off season and come back when there's work so they can make a few bucks to send home so the kids can eat. And personally, I like paying a couple bucks for a basket of strawberries, so that's fine with me.



Quit using common sense will you! It's completely out of place in this discussion.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Why are you posting this here? It's sensible. We don't allow that here.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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disclaimer: No, I don't want to close the border or deport everyone who doesn't look like me, but this country needs to secure the border so it can control who and what comes across.



Or open it completely and document everyone so we know who is here, get rid of any financial incentives to come here for a free ride, make the penalties for hiring anyone illegally here very high, and let the guys in and out to pick strawberries. One of the reasons they don't go home after the growing season is that we make it so difficult to come back, so once people are in, they stay, and we end up with the mess of fake IDs and having no idea who's here. A lot of the migrant workers would love to go home for the off season and come back when there's work so they can make a few bucks to send home so the kids can eat. And personally, I like paying a couple bucks for a basket of strawberries, so that's fine with me.



Quit using common sense will you! It's completely out of place in this discussion.



That is essentially what is SUPPOSED to be happening.. well except for those who profit so handsomely by hiring the illegals.

Until there is some actual penalty for those who have profited... immigration policy is just a joke.

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when you say open border i imagine tearing down the fences , gutting border patrol , free for all. if the border is unencumbered what is the incentive for getting documented . if you keep the fences and the border patrol , might as well keep status quo . there are ways already to legally cross the border , but the illegals have no interest in that !



No. When I say "open border", I mean stop restricting the people allowed in based on numbers or country of origin or some random list of criteria invented by people in Washington that think we need more PhDs and nobody willing to get their hands dirty in a field.

A lot of people assume that there are ways to legally cross the border, but for the vast majority of people, specifically the migrants that cross the border to find work, those avenues are closed to them and they cannot legally cross the border through any of our available methods (and our methods aren't easy even for those that do meet the requirements! sometimes it takes decades). It's not that they have no interest in coming here legally. Most of them are very interested. We've just made it impossible for most of them to come legally, but they're desperate enough to come anyway.

When I say "open border" I mean:

Hello! Line up, state and spell your name, fingerprints please, take your picture here, DNA swab, here's your "registered migrant worker" card, welcome to America, best of luck!

Oh, you're willing to serve in our military? Talk to the gentleman in the uniform right there! Meet the requirements? Sign here and get your citizenship or permanent residency card when you're done with your obligation, with our thanks for your service.

Returning for the harvest season? Migrant card please. Thumbprint here please. It's a match. Card's in our system, everything matches, no red flags. Everything looks good! Welcome back!



I think those are excellent points...and completely moot as long as we have no control over the border.

Gain control of what's happening at the border and we should try and institute all of those things.
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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I think those are excellent points...and completely moot as long as we have no control over the border.

Gain control of what's happening at the border and we should try and institute all of those things.



If we make it easier for people to come here legally, we won't have nearly as many people trying to break in, and controlling the border will be easier. We're never going to be able to secure the border as long as we've got people that are desperate to get in with nothing to lose in the trying. Give those folks a legitimate route in, and then focus the law enforcement energy on contraband smugglers and the like, who usually require more than just a tiny hole in a fence.

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I think those are excellent points...and completely moot as long as we have no control over the border.

Gain control of what's happening at the border and we should try and institute all of those things.


If we make it easier for people to come here legally, we won't have nearly as many people trying to break in, and controlling the border will be easier. We're never going to be able to secure the border as long as we've got people that are desperate to get in with nothing to lose in the trying. Give those folks a legitimate route in, and then focus the law enforcement energy on contraband smugglers and the like, who usually require more than just a tiny hole in a fence.

But But But

It would be far cooler to have a zone of death like the DMZ... minefields... sensors to detect tunneling... automated machinegun posts...Predator Drones with missiles cruising...just think og all the jobs in the defense industry that could create:S

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I think those are excellent points...and completely moot as long as we have no control over the border.

Gain control of what's happening at the border and we should try and institute all of those things.


If we make it easier for people to come here legally, we won't have nearly as many people trying to break in, and controlling the border will be easier. We're never going to be able to secure the border as long as we've got people that are desperate to get in with nothing to lose in the trying. Give those folks a legitimate route in, and then focus the law enforcement energy on contraband smugglers and the like, who usually require more than just a tiny hole in a fence.


But But But

It would be far cooler to have a zone of death like the DMZ... minefields... sensors to detect tunneling... automated machinegun posts...Predator Drones with missiles cruising...just think og all the jobs in the defense industry that could create:S

Excellent ideas. Why didn't I think of that?

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We're never going to be able to secure the border as long as we've got people that are desperate to get in with nothing to lose in the trying.



You mean like legalizing the marijuana laws? While there is an element of truth you are under the false impression that only angels and the needy are trying to get in.
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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I think those are excellent points...and completely moot as long as we have no control over the border.

Gain control of what's happening at the border and we should try and institute all of those things.


If we make it easier for people to come here legally, we won't have nearly as many people trying to break in, and controlling the border will be easier. We're never going to be able to secure the border as long as we've got people that are desperate to get in with nothing to lose in the trying. Give those folks a legitimate route in, and then focus the law enforcement energy on contraband smugglers and the like, who usually require more than just a tiny hole in a fence.


But But But

It would be far cooler to have a zone of death like the DMZ... minefields... sensors to detect tunneling... automated machinegun posts...Predator Drones with missiles cruising...just think og all the jobs in the defense industry that could create:S


Excellent ideas. Why didn't I think of that?

Quote

We're never going to be able to secure the border as long as we've got people that are desperate to get in with nothing to lose in the trying.



You mean like legalizing the marijuana laws? While there is an element of truth you are under the false impression that only angels and the needy are trying to get in.


Gee how about having our police actually do police work.... I mean its not like we don't have any... then again if they were capable of doing police work instead of filling up their fancy police cars with expensive gadgets to raise MORE revenue by getting those dangerous traffic offenders tickets for going 5 MPH over the posted limits

just saying

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You mean like legalizing the marijuana laws? While there is an element of truth you are under the false impression that only angels and the needy are trying to get in.



If I was under the obviously false impression that only angels and the needy are trying to get in, I wouldn't be advocating for identity cards, DNA samples, and fingerprints for anyone coming over our border. I'm just saying let's send the folks that aren't afraid to give those bits of evidence to us through legitimate channels, check that evidence to help weed out people that shouldn't be here, and then focus on the rats still scurrying around in the dark.

And marijuana legalization is another thread, so I'm not going there here.

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so police are the bad guys , and illegal aliens are the good guys , i see, through the looking glass. -lewis sinclair- !



FAIL

Try again.....:S

Personally I would like the cops to do their jobs and spend less time raising money for their departments.

Things like treating the dissapearance of a young girl as a runaway instead of a kidnapping ... because they do not want to be bothered with doing real police work.... just pisses me off

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I'm just saying let's send the folks that aren't afraid to give those bits of evidence to us through legitimate channels, check that evidence to help weed out people that shouldn't be here, and then focus on the rats still scurrying around in the dark.



We couldn't even keep track of the rats who flew the planes into the buildings. What makes you think we can do a better job at the Mexican border? It still gets down to those who are looking to make trouble still have a way in regardless of what we do until we secure the border.

A little prediction; the next successful attack will come from someone who slipped in along this border.
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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I'm just saying let's send the folks that aren't afraid to give those bits of evidence to us through legitimate channels, check that evidence to help weed out people that shouldn't be here, and then focus on the rats still scurrying around in the dark.



We couldn't even keep track of the rats who flew the planes into the buildings. What makes you think we can do a better job at the Mexican border? It still gets down to those who are looking to make trouble still have a way in regardless of what we do until we secure the border.

A little prediction; the next successful attack will come from someone who slipped in along this border.



And I say they are already here
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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