Pledge with America

[Amazon 7]

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>>for all of the young people who will never be able to retire because there will be absolutely no safety net called Social Securiuty

*Shocking idea*
Or you could work hard, make smart decisions with your money, and not depend on the government for your retirement... nah, that would be wayyyy too much work!

How about work smart.. pay into the safety net and also invest in whatever you want to. That way you have a nice comfortable retirement. You put money into 401K.. IRA.. invest in real estate.


Right now.. lets see.. my 401k is worth about half of what it was 3 years ago.... same for my IRA... and my home is now worth just about the same as it was back when I bought it in 2001.

The only thing that is for sure is the money that will be coming in from Social Security after paying into it now for 40 years.

How about we fix SS.. put the fucking money back that has been removed and used by the moron politicians so that SS will actually be there as a safety net for future generations.


But turning over your future to a bunch of thieves.... like the shrub wished to do and these mutherfuckers want to go for again???

Sorry but some people are just to good at fooling stupid people over and over and over again. That said.. it seems there are an even larger group of people who WANT TO BE PERPETUALLY FOOLED by fucknuggets telling their base that they are the party of fiscal responsibility. ( please notice that ANY mention of earmarks is NOT in this declaration ON America)

[wmw999 2,149]

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Or you could work hard, make smart decisions with your money, and not depend on the government for your retirement... nah, that would be wayyyy too much work!

Everyone can't be rich. Rich, like smart, are comparative phenomena -- i.e. as soon as everyone is smart, smart moves.

And if everyone were rich, then we'd be communists, and we'd've redefined "rich"

We can go back to letting people starve or go hungry. We can require that adult children take care of their parents if their parents need it (tough shit if it means you have to quit your job). We can simply try to export everyone who didn't plan as well.

Some of the folks who get caught in that will be the ones who did plan and got unlucky (scammers, stock market crash, high-end health problems).

Being comfortable requires luck as well as planning. And it doesn't mean that you did everything right -- it means that you did enough right, and that you were lucky enough not to have anything major bite you.

How many of you jumpers would be financially devastated by a spinal cord injury that made it so you couldn't do your job any more? Head injury? Even if you have disability at 2/3 your current pay, that doesn't go very far for power wheelchairs, constant medical equipment, and nursing help when insurance only pays for a hour a week.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,149]

That was a long post.

The country can't provide top-end services to everyone. We can't even provide the level of service that we currently are. But neither can we just say "fuck you" to people who had far more bad luck than most people; in their choice of parents, birthplace, health, intelligence. One of the innate rights of man is to pursue happiness. Not to catch it, but that's not guaranteed for either the rich or the poor.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[hwt 0]

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The only thing that is for sure is the money that will be coming in from Social Security after paying into it now for 40 years.

How about we fix SS.. put the fucking money back that has been removed and used by the moron politicians so that SS will actually be there as a safety net for future generations.


But turning over your future to a bunch of thieves.... like the shrub wished to do and these mutherfuckers want to go for again???

Sorry but some people are just to good at fooling stupid people over and over and over again. That said.. it seems there are an even larger group of people who WANT TO BE PERPETUALLY FOOLED by fucknuggets telling their base that they are the party of fiscal responsibility. ( please notice that ANY mention of earmarks is NOT in this declaration ON America)

_________________________________________________
Here is a bit of S.S. trivia for you

Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social
Security (FICA) Program. He promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be
Completely voluntary,

2.) That the participants would only have to pay
1% of the first $1,400 of their annual
Incomes into the Program,

Now 7.65%
On the first $90,000


3.) That the money the participants elected to put
Into the Program would be deductible from
Their income for tax purposes each year,

4.) That the money the participants put into the
Independent 'Trust Fund' rather than into the
General operating fund, and therefore, would
Only be used to fund the Social Security
Retirement Program, and no other
Government program, and,

5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.

Under Clinton & Gore
Up to 85% of your Social Security can be Taxed

Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are
Now receiving a Social Security check every month --
And then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of
The money we paid to the Federal government to 'put
Away -- you may be interested in the following:


Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the
Independent 'Trust Fund' and put it into the
General fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democratically
Controlled House and Senate.

Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax
Deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.

Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social
Security annuities?

A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the
'tie-breaking' deciding vote as President of the
Senate, while he was Vice President of the US

Q: Which Political Party decided to start
Giving annuity payments to immigrants?

A: That's right!

Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party.
Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65,
Began to receive Social Security payments! The
Democratic Party gave these payments to them,
Even though they never paid a dime into it!


Then, after violating the original contract (FICA),
The Democrats turn around and tell you that the Republicans want to take your Social Security away!

[idrankwhat 0]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/changes.asp

[billvon 2,435]

Wow. Who would have thought that republican spam might actually contain a few lies? Hard to believe!

[scruffy 0]

The day a major party allows the facts get in the way of a good story I'm heading for the bunker, because that is a clear sign of the apocalypse.

Peace, love and hoppiness

[Amazon 7]

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http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/changes.asp

Thanks you saved me a couple seconds from saying BULLSHIT to that tripe he posted

[kelpdiver 2]

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Right now.. lets see.. my 401k is worth about half of what it was 3 years ago.... same for my IRA...

Is this hyperbole? Because for it to be true, you had to really screw the pooch.

3 years ago the S&P (via the ETF SPY) peaked around 160. At the worth in 2009, it got below 80. Now it's ranging from 105 - 115 typically. This is a nice broad index that is representative of many people's 401k holdings, though hopefully one would have some bond component. Foreign diversification is common as well, though in this period moved in concert with the US market.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SPY+Basic+Chart&t=5y

For your accounts to still be at 50% of value would require you to be nearly 100% in equities, have purchased them all in mid 2007, then dumped them all in early 2009 at the trough, and then put them into money market accounts. While making small contributions relative to account size.

So either you exaggerate, or you did some seriously bad speculation.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

Can someone please make a flashy animated .gif with a funny slogan to post every time some one gets busted posting a rumor that has been debunked by snopes?

[turtlespeed 212]

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Can someone please make a flashy animated .gif with a funny slogan to post every time some one gets busted posting a rumor that has been debunked by snopes?

You can use this!

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[SivaGanesha 2]

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How many of you jumpers would be financially devastated by a spinal cord injury that made it so you couldn't do your job any more? Head injury? Even if you have disability at 2/3 your current pay, that doesn't go very far for power wheelchairs, constant medical equipment, and nursing help when insurance only pays for a hour a week.

I know at least one American (not a jumper) who found a good solution to this problem. He and his family, being high achieving Americans, found it quite easy to emigrate legally to Canada. So they did so, and lived in Canada just long enough to become Canadian citizens. Then they moved back to the USA where there are definitely more career opportunities. But they now have dual citizenship for life so if any member of the family ever needs catastrophic medical care, they can move back to Canada and be taken care of for life with, at worst in some provinces, a 3 month waiting period. Best of both worlds, because they didn't have to give up US citizenship to do so. And they don't even have to pay Canadian taxes unless and until they ever live there again.

They are, of course, what the Canadians would call "Canadians of convenience". But it is, indeed, a convenient situation for the dual citizens, and certainly worth considering.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[Amazon 7]

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Right now.. lets see.. my 401k is worth about half of what it was 3 years ago.... same for my IRA...

Is this hyperbole? Because for it to be true, you had to really screw the pooch.

3 years ago the S&P (via the ETF SPY) peaked around 160. At the worth in 2009, it got below 80. Now it's ranging from 105 - 115 typically. This is a nice broad index that is representative of many people's 401k holdings, though hopefully one would have some bond component. Foreign diversification is common as well, though in this period moved in concert with the US market.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SPY+Basic+Chart&t=5y

For your accounts to still be at 50% of value would require you to be nearly 100% in equities, have purchased them all in mid 2007, then dumped them all in early 2009 at the trough, and then put them into money market accounts. While making small contributions relative to account size.

So either you exaggerate, or you did some seriously bad speculation.

Yup pretty much screwed the pooch..no wild speculation at all.. just selected the wrong funds that seem to have taken a bigger dive than the index. One of the 401k from one company I worked for I needed to roll over to an IRA which was about 60K going in and at the bottom.. it was about 25k. and yes it has risen a bit but I got sick of getting pissed off every time I opened it up and saw what it was now worth. Pretty much the same for others as well. and since then I just throw the damn mail from them in a fucking pile. Luckily my real estate is in better shape. not that I could actually sell it.. but not my house... it is literally worth $3k more now than when I bought it in 2001..at least on the current zillow.com. The last few months its been in a fucking sprial towards the basement BUT I am still paying taxes on it at the inflated rate when it was worth almost 2 times what it is now.

DIVIDENDS now???
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA...yeah that is a hilarious fucking joke.

No... I have just left everything as is.. it would be pretty stupid to sell everything when its down now wouldnt it.

Oh and I dont even want to talk about the stocks like LORAL... I think someone there just needs to be shot... I have a few like that... common stock... well you know.. the people who are special.. did not loose quite as much.

Not to worry though.. If I live a bit longer I will be in better shape.

But what the hell.. I can retire in 7 years with SS right?

Dont bet on it.. my current retirement plans have me working till I drop dead if I want to maintain the way I currently like living.

It really irks me that the GOP wants to dismantle the only safety net we have in this country. But since most of the assholes who get elected are pretty well off... who the hell do you think they want to pander to.. their buddies at the country club.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

Put it all under the mattress from now on?

[Amazon 7]

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Put it all under the mattress from now on?

I literally would have more money now had I done that.

The other accounts I have are not quite as bad.. but still it goes to show just how much peoples retirement accounts are vulnerable to thieves.




Oh one bright spot... my gold and silver... its ROCKIN

I bought a lot of gold at under $300 and much of the silver I collected as a kid at face value... or that which I bought at $5 an ounce.

Most of those are worth more for their numismatic value than just melt

And no.. its not under the mattress.. its in safe deposit boxes.. big ones
But there is NO FUCKING way I want the people who caused the Great REcession to actually get another shot at me... I do not get fooled that easily

[kelpdiver 2]

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but not my house... it is literally worth $3k more now than when I bought it in 2001..at least on the current zillow.com. The last few months its been in a fucking sprial towards the basement BUT I am still paying taxes on it at the inflated rate when it was worth almost 2 times what it is now.

In CA, you can request a downward revision. However, the prop 13 restrictions on increase will not apply when the value recovers - it will go back up to the prior set value as the market does.

[Amazon 7]

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but not my house... it is literally worth $3k more now than when I bought it in 2001..at least on the current zillow.com. The last few months its been in a fucking sprial towards the basement BUT I am still paying taxes on it at the inflated rate when it was worth almost 2 times what it is now.

In CA, you can request a downward revision. However, the prop 13 restrictions on increase will not apply when the value recovers - it will go back up to the prior set value as the market does.

Yea.. not so much here

[Tf15 0]

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I hope everyone (Republican, Democrat, or otherwise) sits down and reads the whopping 21 pages that summarize the goals of the republican party if they take a majority this year. For republicans, understand what you're buying. Democrats can get a different perspective to filter through their own views. Others can make an informed decision on who they want to see with a majority.

Say what you want about the republicans, but remember that in 1994 I believe every single goal of their "contract with america" was at least proposed in the congress to varying levels of success, and I do think that republicans will be sincere in at least doing their part in implementing what they say they will.

I doubt that very much. It's mostly empty rhetoric to appeal to the tea partiers.

I agree with the following analysis:

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While it promises to create jobs, control deficit spending and restore Americans’ trust in government, it is devoid of tough policy choices. This new “governing agenda” does not say how the Republicans would replace revenue that would be lost from permanently extending all of the Bush tax cuts, or how they would manage Medicare and Social Security, or even which discretionary programs would go when they slash $100 billion in spending. Their record at all of these things is dismal.

The best way to understand the pledge is as a bid to co-opt the Tea Party by a Republican leadership that wants to sound insurrectionist but is the same old Washington elite. These are the folks who slashed taxes on the rich, turned a surplus into a crushing deficit, and helped unleash the financial crisis that has thrown millions of Americans out of their jobs and their homes.

Not only are the players the same, the policies are the same. Just more tax cuts for the rich and more deficit spending. We find it hard to believe that even the most disaffected voters will be taken in. But again, these are strange and worrying times.

Three times is enemy action

[rehmwa 2]

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It's mostly empty rhetoric to appeal to the tea partiers.

I disagree -

It's mostly empty rhetoric to appeal to everyone that's dissatisfied with both big spending parties that don't do what they say they'll do. but especially:

1 - appeals to the general public that's totally dismayed with the last two administrations lack of control in spending

2 - appeals to the general public that sees the current administration killing the economy

3 - and as you note - appeals to fiscal conservative republicans that will ditch the current reps for the newer breed

problem is - this brought to us by the same neo-republican crowd that doesn't walk their own talk

note that recently a lot of dems are also trying to state they are against the current spending/bailout/irresponsible policies even though they walked lock step with the current admin in the feeding frenzy of the last two years - again, more lies from professionals at it

I love elections - it's where the critically insincere really put out the bull.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

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It's mostly empty rhetoric to appeal to the tea partiers.

I disagree -

It's mostly empty rhetoric to appeal to everyone that's dissatisfied with both big spending parties that don't do what they say they'll do. but especially:

1 - appeals to the general public that's totally dismayed with the last two administrations lack of control in spending

2 - appeals to the general public that sees the current administration killing the economy

3 - and as you note - appeals to fiscal conservative republicans that will ditch the current reps for the newer breed

problem is - this brought to us by the same neo-republican crowd that doesn't walk their own talk

note that recently a lot of dems are also trying to state they are against the current spending/bailout/irresponsible policies even though they walked lock step with the current admin in the feeding frenzy of the last two years - again, more lies from professionals at it

I love elections - it's where the critically insincere really put out the bull.

I agree with both of you, except for the "current administration killing the economy". The economy was almost dead and killing other economies. It's not now, it's on life support. The decision to be made is "where do we go from here?" One of the reasons I voted for Obama, and still support him, is that I agree with the notion of rebuilding our economy through bottom up investment in infrastructure, education, and innovation, especially in the arena of alternative energy and conservation. We need a new economy, not the old one of which 70% depends on us buying things (many of which we don't need). I see the "pledge" as yearning for the old economy which is unsustainable. I want new thinking in Washington and I'm willing to vote for that. Unfortunately "K" street crowd and the occupants of those huge buildings around the beltway have lots of "free $peech" at their disposal and they like things the way they are. It will be tough going for any candidate who wishes to contest them.

[rushmc 18]

Had the current congress done nothing including the HC sham bill, we would be much better off already

Just as FDR did, Obama is extending the current mess. And until the gov direction is clear, business will sit on their cash and do nothing cause that path is smarter

Anybody who thinks the porkulus spending has helped anything (on a large scale) needs to go to rehab to get off the cool aid

And I will include the Bush admin spending bill as well

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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It's mostly empty rhetoric to appeal to the tea partiers.

I disagree -

It's mostly empty rhetoric to appeal to everyone that's dissatisfied with both big spending parties that don't do what they say they'll do. but especially:

1 - appeals to the general public that's totally dismayed with the last two administrations lack of control in spending

2 - appeals to the general public that sees the current administration killing the economy

3 - and as you note - appeals to fiscal conservative republicans that will ditch the current reps for the newer breed

problem is - this brought to us by the same neo-republican crowd that doesn't walk their own talk

note that recently a lot of dems are also trying to state they are against the current spending/bailout/irresponsible policies even though they walked lock step with the current admin in the feeding frenzy of the last two years - again, more lies from professionals at it

I love elections - it's where the critically insincere really put out the bull.

Agreed but, once the elections are over I feel our work (the peoples work) should only be just begining. No matter what party is in power we must let them know what we want as a people, they will get right back to their drunker sailor spending as soon as they can

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

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Had the current congress done nothing including the HC sham bill, we would be much better off already

You mean letting the banks, GM and Chrysler fail? That's the true free market approach but I think we'd be MUCH worse off if we had done that. As for HC, it was the right idea but it was too compromised to be as effective as it could be. It's also pretty much embraced in "the pledge", it's just that the Republicans want to claim it as their own.

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Just as FDR did, Obama is extending the current mess.

True, times like this recession and the depression are times when the government is allowed to spend like a drunken sailor. The problem was that we had already done that and there was nothing left.

[rehmwa 2]

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As for HC, it was the right idea but it was too compromised to be as effective as it could be. It's also pretty much embraced in "the pledge", it's just that the Republicans want to claim it as their own.

Election time -

Republicans 'embracing' health care reform
Dems claiming they were against the bailouts

funny - instead of following the party-based playbooks in their voting and then LYING as they approach November -

they could just do what they believe the people really want in the first place..... But that is mostly a resounding "Stop spending, stop spending, stop spending" cry. But that won't work, it takes away power.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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I agree with both of you, except for the "current administration killing the economy". The economy was almost dead ......

I expected this from a couple players, not you.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants