Pledge with America

[scruffy 0]

I hope everyone (Republican, Democrat, or otherwise) sits down and reads the whopping 21 pages that summarize the goals of the republican party if they take a majority this year. For republicans, understand what you're buying. Democrats can get a different perspective to filter through their own views. Others can make an informed decision on who they want to see with a majority.

Say what you want about the republicans, but remember that in 1994 I believe every single goal of their "contract with america" was at least proposed in the congress to varying levels of success, and I do think that republicans will be sincere in at least doing their part in implementing what they say they will. So if you agree with it, than that's all the better, if you don't at least you know what you'll be up against if they get the power.

Personally I think the pledge is more aligned with my political ideology than it isn't. I didn't like the line about traditional marriage and other value statements, but that's par for the course with the RNC and just has to be weighed against the pros of the piece. I also would have liked to see a commitment to real substantive tax reform and not a conservative band-aid like small business tax cuts.

So what do you guys think? After reading are you more or less content with the idea of a republican house and possibly a republican senate?

I tried to just attach the PDF but DZ.com wasn't having it, so here's a link to get it:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/09/22/gop.pledge.to.america.pdf?hpt=T1

Peace, love and hoppiness

[Channman 2]

I'm all for traditional marriage, been involved in a traditional marriage for 26 years and counting. My daughters are looking forward to traditional marriage.

[rehmwa 2]

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http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/09/22/gop.pledge.to.america.pdf?hpt=T1

Clicky - I'll look at it later

1 - I don't like what the dems are doing at all. But I expected that and trust them to keep screwing things up on purpose.

2 - But, the Republicans can promise all sorts of things, but I don't trust them to stick to their words.

I sick of the government going between "tax and spend", and "borrow and spend".

That's my only two choices right now. Where is "stop spending so damn much" - that's who I vote for (if I actually trusted them to do it once they got into power).


Edit: here's one for example

Our plan stands on the principles of smaller, more accountable government; economic freedom; lower taxes; fiscal responsibility; protecting life, American values, and the Constitution; and providing for a robust national defense.

sounds pretty good except for "American values" - to me that's just buzz word for the government sticking their nose into personal people's values through legislation - I don't like it when the left does it and I didn't like it when the right did it. stay out of the subjective areas and minimize involvement with individual choices.

Delete that bit, and I'd be happy - but I don't believe they'd follow through with it - both parties get in, then go spend crazy.

at least some discussion can get in before the insults and Lucky diarrhea begins and this thread gets overwhelmed with crap.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[scruffy 0]

I really can't get over the republican's insistence in trying to legislate morality. The problem is that I don't believe the republicans will drop it. The question is whether or not that insipid belief in a moral majority is enough to warrant continuing the policies we have endured under this congress and president.

For me the answer is no, perhaps I have too much faith the republicans will stick to their promises in the pledge though.

Peace, love and hoppiness

[quade 3]

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. . . sits down and reads the whopping 21 pages . . .

"Whopping 21 pages"? Seriously? You do realize most children's books are longer and some considerably more in-depth. BTW, pages 3, 9, 13, 16 and 20 contain almost no text. Much of what is written in the remaining pages is repetitive filler without much of a "plan" at all.

Some of it is just plain silly.

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DID YOU KNOW?
• Today, Washington spends $7 million every minute of every hour of every day. That is twice as much as was spent per minute in 1980.

Hey, did you also know a cup of coffee costs more today than it did 30 years ago? True fact! Did you also know there wasn't a war going on in 1980? Guess what; wars cost money.

Anyway, they already pissed me off in paragraph 2 and the last paragraph of page 1.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Amazon 7]

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. . . sits down and reads the whopping 21 pages . . .

"Whopping 21 pages"? Seriously? You do realize most children's books are longer and some considerably more in-depth. BTW, pages 3, 9, 13, 16 and 20 contain almost no text. Much of what is written in the remaining pages is repetitive filler without much of a "plan" at all.

Some of it is just plain silly.

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DID YOU KNOW?
• Today, Washington spends $7 million every minute of every hour of every day. That is twice as much as was spent per minute in 1980.

Hey, did you also know a cup of coffee costs more today than it did 30 years ago? True fact! Did you also know there wasn't a war going on in 1980? Guess what; wars cost money.

Anyway, they already pissed me off in paragraph 2 and the last paragraph of page 1.

I particularly like this one....... that the GOP got us into..that GHWB called voodoo economics... and they pretend that more of the same old crap can fix it!!!

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Americans need no reminder that the challenges we face are enormous. Our economy has declined and our debt has mushroomed with the loss of millions of jobs. The social fabric that binds us as citizens, families, and communities is unraveling. Voices in and out of government whisper that our standing as the world’s leader of democracy and economic growth is ending.

[scruffy 0]

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"Whopping 21 pages"? Seriously?

DZ.com really needs a sarcasm font. I meant that it's short and accessible enough that everyone regardless of ideology should give it a read.

Peace, love and hoppiness

[kelpdiver 2]

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. . . sits down and reads the whopping 21 pages . . .

"Whopping 21 pages"? Seriously? You do realize most children's books are longer and some considerably more in-depth. BTW, pages 3, 9, 13, 16 and 20 contain almost no text. Much of what is written in the remaining pages is repetitive filler without much of a "plan" at all.

For the content it actually contains, should be less than 5 pages. It's a pretty awful document, reads as well as a communist manifesto printed on a mimeograph.

No structure, transitions, organization at all. Most of the detail is vague at best. "End wasteful spending." Soundbites, no substance.

I like the misleading graph on page 13 - note the Y axis goes from 17 to 24, but makes it look like Obama doubled spending.

The name "Pledge with America" sucks. No wonder we haven't heard it yet, even though the election is just 6 weeks away. Newt was much better at this than whoever is in charge now.

[rehmwa 2]

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I really can't get over the republican's insistence in trying to legislate morality.

this is NOT the sole push of republican's - both parties push their brand of morality on the rest of us. That's the problem - two parties eaach defined by a social agenda that requires a lot of spending - zero parties defined by fiscal agenda based on frugality

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

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I really can't get over the republican's insistence in trying to legislate morality.

this is NOT the sole push of republican's - both parties push their brand of morality on the rest of us. That's the problem - two parties eaach defined by a social agenda that requires a lot of spending - zero parties defined by fiscal agenda based on frugality

You do seem to forget ONE party in particular that whipped up so much fear of two guys getting married to get all those who wish morality was legislated out to the polls. It IS one of their best wedge issues that they use every election. They also wish to legislate out of existence.. a womans right to choose to not have a child no matter HOW she got to that point, rape or incest... no problem.

[rehmwa 2]

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You do seem to forget ONE party

I believe I included both popular current parties in the fear mongering category. That includes the one you mention, and the one you conveniently overlook.

Vote for me or the other guy will send your kids to war.
Vote for me or the other guy will force you to go to his church.
Vote for me or the other guy will let the rich eat your babies.
Vote for me or the other guy will let the poor disassemble your X-Box and build campfires in your living room.

I can provide examples all day. Pick a list - R or D


unless you mean some third other "ONE party" -
Vote for me or the other two guys will tax and borrow and spend and spend and spend the country into an unrecoverable hole of despair and ruin

but I might listen to that third guy

that's why you can't just take the R or the D and make some snap judgment. That's lazy. You need to know what they say they will do and whether they'll really do it when it's important enough to matter.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[marks2065 0]

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I really can't get over the republican's insistence in trying to legislate morality.

this is NOT the sole push of republican's - both parties push their brand of morality on the rest of us. That's the problem - two parties eaach defined by a social agenda that requires a lot of spending - zero parties defined by fiscal agenda based on frugality

You do seem to forget ONE party in particular that whipped up so much fear of two guys getting married to get all those who wish morality was legislated out to the polls. It IS one of their best wedge issues that they use every election. They also wish to legislate out of existence.. a womans right to choose to not have a child no matter HOW she got to that point, rape or incest... no problem.

I think you missread the document, it is ok though, we can blame your liberal teacher.
the document says no taxpayer money will fund abortion. not no abortions.

[Amazon 7]

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You do seem to forget ONE party

I believe I included both popular current parties in the fear mongering category. That includes the one you mention, and the one you conveniently overlook.

Vote for me or the other guy will send your kids to war.
Vote for me or the other guy will force you to go to his church.
Vote for me or the other guy will let the rich eat your babies.
Vote for me or the other guy will let the poor disassemble your X-Box and build campfires in your living room.

I can provide examples all day. Pick a list - R or D


unless you mean some third other "ONE party" -
Vote for me or the other two guys will tax and borrow and spend and spend and spend the country into an unrecoverable hole of despair and ruin

but I might listen to that third guy

that's why you can't just take the R or the D and make some snap judgment. That's lazy. You need to know what they say they will do and whether they'll really do it when it's important enough to matter.

It seems the Party I was talking about... did not do such a bangup job on any of those from 2001 to 2009... but if the American people are too fucking stupid to forget that and want instant gratification and an instant fix. and the fucknuggeets are doing EVERYTHING they can to let the other guys fix any of the crap they broke..... then they will get what they fucking deserve. That is the real problem.. a country that is too fucking stupid to use the brains that SHOULD have gotten an education on the things that matter.

[Amazon 7]

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I really can't get over the republican's insistence in trying to legislate morality.

this is NOT the sole push of republican's - both parties push their brand of morality on the rest of us. That's the problem - two parties eaach defined by a social agenda that requires a lot of spending - zero parties defined by fiscal agenda based on frugality

You do seem to forget ONE party in particular that whipped up so much fear of two guys getting married to get all those who wish morality was legislated out to the polls. It IS one of their best wedge issues that they use every election. They also wish to legislate out of existence.. a womans right to choose to not have a child no matter HOW she got to that point, rape or incest... no problem.

I think you missread the document, it is ok though, we can blame your liberal teacher.
the document says no taxpayer money will fund abortion. not no abortions.

I think you must not be listening to your TEA BAGGING candidates. PLEASE do not try blowing smoke up my ass. This is a generic feel good document with little to no substance on any issues. Perhaps you should try listening to your candidates first... and no.. I received a splendid private education in parochial schools. But you go ahead and blame your teachers that you believe to be evil liberals though... its all ya got.

[scruffy 0]

Democracy can admit no cure for the mischiefs of faction

-James Madison

Putting so much stake in mob rule is a bitch, no?

Peace, love and hoppiness

[Amazon 7]

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Democracy can admit no cure for the mischiefs of faction

-James Madison

Putting so much stake in mob rule is a bitch, no?

Especially if the mob are the same ones who once felt the need to burn heretics.

[turtlespeed 212]

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Democracy can admit no cure for the mischiefs of faction

-James Madison

Putting so much stake in mob rule is a bitch, no?

Especially if the mob are the same ones who once felt the need to burn heretics.

Flame broiled heritic is yummy.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,435]

I read the part about health care and - it sounds just like the current healthcare plan, just angrier. Some examples:

"We will allow individuals to buy health care coverage outside of the state in which they live." - Done by State Insurance Health Contracts in current law.

"We will make it illegal for an insurance company to deny coverage to someone with prior coverage on the basis of a pre-existing condition." - Done

"eliminate annual and lifetime spending caps" - done

"prevent insurers from dropping your coverage just because you get sick." - done

"We will also enact into law conscience protections for health care providers, including doctors, nurses, and hospitals." - Got that _without_ the new law.

The only real differences I see are prohibitions on abortion funding (which is pretty concrete) and the "enact common-sense medical liability reforms" thing (which means next to nothing.)

Sounds like they want to end this expensive, socialist, ineffective and job-killing healthcare plan and put into place an expensive, socialist, ineffective and job-killing healthcare plan that doesn't fund abortions.

[StreetScooby 5]

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Anyway, they already pissed me off in paragraph 2 and the last paragraph of page 1.

Where in your culture does personal responsibility come into play?

Your local schools failed your community?
Why can't you start there?
That' where equal opportunity begins.

Go start your own business.
Personally, I don't think you're good enough.

We are all engines of karma

[quade 3]

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Anyway, they already pissed me off in paragraph 2 and the last paragraph of page 1.

Where in your culture does personal responsibility come into play?

Personal responsibility is fine . . . it's the church chat that turns me off.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[usedtajump 1]

Same old worn out promise every politician you've ever heard makes ,
"I'll lower your taxes and spend less of your money". The party that will actually do this doesn't exist.

The older I get the less I care who I piss off.

[idrankwhat 0]

I haven't read it yet but I've heard a few interviews. I'm not impressed. Most of it has the substance of a Miss America contestant calling for world peace. I want specifics on how they expect to be fiscally responsible, as in what SPECIFICALLY do they plan to cut. So far I've heard that they specifically want to cut taxes and spend more money on space invaders.

Obama was specific on what he wanted when he promised "change". And now I know SPECIFICALLY what it is that he has failed to deliver. (Although I will cut him a bit of slack. He has an inept majority and a remarkably obstructionist minority in Congress to work with).

I'll read the 21 pages this weekend. But my guess from what I've heard so far is that it's a political stunt (t'is the season) aimed at getting TV coverage and trying to keep the party from fracturing.

[Amazon 7]

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I haven't read it yet but I've heard a few interviews. I'm not impressed. Most of it has the substance of a Miss America contestant calling for world peace. I want specifics on how they expect to be fiscally responsible, as in what SPECIFICALLY do they plan to cut. So far I've heard that they specifically want to cut taxes and spend more money on space invaders.

This POS thing they rolled out has all the cool little buzz words to placate the rubes that call themselves TEA BAGGERS but as far as fiscal responsibility its a travesty. These people will bury this country in perpetual debt and wage slavery for all of the young people who will never be able to retire because there will be absolutely no safety net called Social Securiuty.. just like the old days. You will work till the day you drop dead beause all that money will have been squandered by Wall Street.. but go ahead trust them... there are millions of suckers born every day.

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[VTmotoMike08 0]

>>for all of the young people who will never be able to retire because there will be absolutely no safety net called Social Securiuty

*Shocking idea*
Or you could work hard, make smart decisions with your money, and not depend on the government for your retirement... nah, that would be wayyyy too much work!

[idrankwhat 0]

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These people will bury this country in perpetual debt and wage slavery for all of the young people who will never be able to retire because there will be absolutely no safety net called Social Securiuty..

Well that has been the plan that they've articulated. The idea, as they've said themselves, is to spend like crazy on their pet items so that the country gets in such a fiscal mess that we have to cut back on the items that they don't like, like SS.

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just like the old days. You will work till the day you drop dead beause all that money will have been squandered by Wall Street.. ...

If you haven't seen it, you HAVE to watch the first minute and a half about the Wall St. "pinata".