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rushmc

Another Argument for Making Drugs Legal

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I am confused by your title as it applies to the abuse/maltreatment of children by their parents.

I have been actively involved in the substance use/abuse social culture practically all my life. My father owned a bar for a while and gave me a glass of beer when I was 6 with the instruction, "Don't tell your mother."

The thought of living without mood altering chemicals did not occur in my life until I was 41 YO. I have now been straight, clean and sober for 27 years.

Knowing that alcohol and other substances were an active part of my life I received a master's in counseling in 1973. At that time I was attempting to remove alcohol by using marijuana and other drugs. It didn't work for me and it won't work for the majority of others.

Some people can use all sorts of substances without seemingly lasting affects. These individuals are rare and you never know if you are one of them until you are deep into middle age. It's a crap shoot.

Drugs are everywhere in our society and in the world. We will never rid ourselves of the desire. I can tell you this, after all these years I have determined that the desire to use is based on immaturity.

A mature individual accepts responsibility as an adult. The degree to which you back off from responsibility by using mood altering substances is the degree to which you refuse to learn something new and take new responsibilities.

Another way to look at it, using substances is a way to make love to yourself. It is chemical masturbation.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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My wife is dying of cancer and I think she should be allowed any damn drug she pleases if it helps with the pain.

Take your moralizing and stuff it!



That is FAR from what he was saying....[:/]

My sympathies for your wifes suffering, Fuck the laws, pot can likely make her feel better!

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Some people can use all sorts of substances without seemingly lasting affects. These individuals are rare



no they arent they are the vast majority. the vast majority of users of the drugs that are considered for legality live full and productive lives using the drugs as recreation with no adverse affects on their lives




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A mature individual accepts responsibility as an adult. The degree to which you back off from responsibility by using mood altering substances is the degree to which you refuse to learn something new and take new responsibilities.



what a load of crap having a few drinks is not irresponsible or indicate any sort of denial or otherwise in the person

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Another way to look at it, using substances is a way to make love to yourself. It is chemical masturbation.



so?

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John, I'm sorry to hear of your wife's illness.

RonD, once again your "one size fits all" moralizing has managed to offend. If you wish to convince us nonbelievers that your faith leads to a better way, that's not the way to go about it.

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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My wife is dying of cancer and I think she should be allowed any damn drug she pleases if it helps with the pain.

Take your moralizing and stuff it!



I am very sorry to learn of your wife's illness.

I was in no way referring to medically justified, legally prescribed medicine. Just a hasty conclusion on your part I guess.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Some people can use all sorts of substances without seemingly lasting affects. These individuals are rare



no they arent they are the vast majority. the vast majority of users of the drugs that are considered for legality live full and productive lives using the drugs as recreation with no adverse affects on their lives



Since you are a student and have assumed knowledge on the subject, here is a question to test your validity.

There are four major problem areas associated with substance abuse, name them.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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My wife is dying of cancer and I think she should be allowed any damn drug she pleases if it helps with the pain.

Take your moralizing and stuff it!



I am very sorry to learn of your wife's illness.

I was in no way referring to medically justified, legally prescribed medicine. Just a hasty conclusion on your part I guess.



Given the thread title, it's clearly not about currently legal drugs. It's about currently illegal drugs that could help the dying but moralists like you steadfastly oppose because in your youth you abused them.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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When I read RonD1120's posts, I can't help but think that religion may be the worst mind-altering addiction of all... :|



Where did I mention religion in this thread on this subject?
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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How is this an argument for making drugs legal? If, on the other hand, your thread title is a failed attempt at sarcasm, since when is abuse of a legal product by a few misguided individuals a legitimate reason to ban it for all? The same logic can be used to ban guns because some misuse them; do you support gun bans? Oh, and most of the drugs mentioned in the article are, in fact, perfectly legal for adults to purchase and use, which makes me wonder even more what point you were attempting to make.

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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John, I'm sorry to hear of your wife's illness.

RonD, once again your "one size fits all" moralizing has managed to offend. If you wish to convince us nonbelievers that your faith leads to a better way, that's not the way to go about it.

Don



There was no moralizing mentioned or implied in my post. I did not offer any solution to the problem. I stated an opinion based on personal and professional experience.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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My wife is dying of cancer and I think she should be allowed any damn drug she pleases if it helps with the pain.

Take your moralizing and stuff it!



I am very sorry to learn of your wife's illness.

I was in no way referring to medically justified, legally prescribed medicine. Just a hasty conclusion on your part I guess.


The problem lies in what doctors CAN prescribe.
A friend of mine lives in perpetual pain.

Many of the best drugs that will actually help people in severe pain are as you know addictive and so tightly controlled or unobtainable that doctors will not prescribe out of fear of those addictions or lawsuits if a patient does get addicted.
There seems to be a trend to OVER REGULATE doctors and watch them closely to prevent abuse, BUT that leads to them fearing to prescribe drugs that would actually help people with chronic pain.

Its not about good medicine it is the legal ramifications of actually helping the patients.

Instead they send off people to "pain management" to teach people how to live with their pain. >:(>:(

I would LOVE to see those people who cause others to live in pain to actually FEEL that pain so they might develop some compassion to those they are harming.

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My wife is dying of cancer and I think she should be allowed any damn drug she pleases if it helps with the pain.

Take your moralizing and stuff it!



I am very sorry to learn of your wife's illness.

I was in no way referring to medically justified, legally prescribed medicine. Just a hasty conclusion on your part I guess.



Given the thread title, it's clearly not about currently legal drugs. It's about currently illegal drugs that could help the dying but moralists like you steadfastly oppose because in your youth you abused them.



The article referenced in the OP link referred to abusing children with legally prescribed medicine intended for others.

Again, you and GeorgiaDon believe I am moralizing and I am not. I stated an opinion, that's all.

Furthermore, I am not convinced that marijuana should remain illegal. I am on the fence with that issue.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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When I read RonD1120's posts, I can't help but think that religion may be the worst mind-altering addiction of all... :|



It is certainly a disease of denial.

The biggest difference I see is that, while consumptive disorders tend to endanger those afflicted, believers tend to endanger others. The difference between The Inquisition and the imposition of Sharia is minor from the standpoint of those unwillingly subjected to one version of "The Truth" (tm) or another.


BSBD,

Winsor

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Furthermore, I am not convinced that marijuana should remain illegal. I am on the fence with that issue.



If Alcohol and Tobacco are legal, Marijuana should be as well.

Compared to booze and cigarettes, pot is a gift from God.

FWIW, I don't touch any of it - ever - but think the "War on Drugs" is one of the single dumbest concepts ever concocted. It is based on the kind of "good intentions" with which the road to hell is paved.


BSBD,

Winsor

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Since you are a student and have assumed knowledge on the subject, here is a question to test your validity.



test the validity of what? my opinion?

i dont know the 4 whatever of substance abuse im sure a google would find them easily enough

your professional opinion is one thing but it is only based on the people you see professionally, who naturally enough, are the ones with a problem.

my personal opinion is based on having lost close family members to drugs and seeing close friends use them with no problems and seeing close friends use them with problems

can you show me any factual evidence that shows the majority of people who recreationally use drugs suffer negative life affecting side affects

imho,the people who have problems with these substances will have problems with them and access to them weather or not they are legal

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Furthermore, I am not convinced that marijuana should remain illegal. I am on the fence with that issue.



If Alcohol and Tobacco are legal, Marijuana should be as well.

Compared to booze and cigarettes, pot is a gift from God.

FWIW, I don't touch any of it - ever - but think the "War on Drugs" is one of the single dumbest concepts ever concocted. It is based on the kind of "good intentions" with which the road to hell is paved.


BSBD,

Winsor



You and I are on the same page here with one exception. I believe the "war on drugs" was a political decision and had little to do with good intentions. Bottom line, it did very little good. The war seemed to have provided some excellent training for our black ops personnel.

Pablo Escobar was taken out and it remains a mystery who fired the kill shot.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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The problem lies in what doctors CAN prescribe.
A friend of mine lives in perpetual pain.

Many of the best drugs that will actually help people in severe pain are as you know addictive and so tightly controlled or unobtainable that doctors will not prescribe out of fear of those addictions or lawsuits if a patient does get addicted.
There seems to be a trend to OVER REGULATE doctors and watch them closely to prevent abuse, BUT that leads to them fearing to prescribe drugs that would actually help people with chronic pain.

Its not about good medicine it is the legal ramifications of actually helping the patients.

Instead they send off people to "pain management" to teach people how to live with their pain. >:(>:(

I would LOVE to see those people who cause others to live in pain to actually FEEL that pain so they might develop some compassion to those they are harming.



I don't know what state you live in. Here in FL pain and anxiety meds are rather easy to come by. In Tampa we have recently shut down a pain management clinic that supplying addicts with unlimited Oxycontin.

Many of my former clients were strung out on Xanax and Valium. They had no problem finding docs who would write scripts.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Furthermore, I am not convinced that marijuana should remain illegal. I am on the fence with that issue.



If Alcohol and Tobacco are legal, Marijuana should be as well.

Compared to booze and cigarettes, pot is a gift from God.

FWIW, I don't touch any of it - ever - but think the "War on Drugs" is one of the single dumbest concepts ever concocted. It is based on the kind of "good intentions" with which the road to hell is paved.


BSBD,

Winsor


You and I are on the same page here with one exception. I believe the "war on drugs" was a political decision and had little to do with good intentions. Bottom line, it did very little good. The war seemed to have provided some excellent training for our black ops personnel.

Pablo Escobar was taken out and it remains a mystery who fired the kill shot.

Yeah.. in how to smuggle the crap into this country to fund more ops>:(>:(

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The war seemed to have provided some excellent training for our black ops personnel.

Pablo Escobar was taken out and it remains a mystery who fired the kill shot.



Yeah.. in how to smuggle the crap into this country to fund more ops>:(>:(

Therein lies the paradox or conundrum, whatever, we need black ops. The very nature of their expertise allows them the opportunity to provide their own funding.

I don't think any evidence exists at this point that black ops were funded directly by the war on drugs. Key word is evidence.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Furthermore, I am not convinced that marijuana should remain illegal. I am on the fence with that issue.



If Alcohol and Tobacco are legal, Marijuana should be as well.

Compared to booze and cigarettes, pot is a gift from God.

FWIW, I don't touch any of it - ever - but think the "War on Drugs" is one of the single dumbest concepts ever concocted. It is based on the kind of "good intentions" with which the road to hell is paved.


BSBD,

Winsor

You obviously haven't smoked pot recently...it has gotten so good I quit .....shit kicks ass these days!
:o

BUT, all the better for peopel that need it for pain!B|

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You obviously haven't smoked pot recently...it has gotten so good I quit .....shit kicks ass these days!
:o

BUT, all the better for peopel that need it for pain!B|



Is it better than that Humbolt County CA pot? We used to call that two toke pot. One toke and you knew you were stoned. The second toke and you forgot pretty much everything before the first toke.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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