dreamdancer 0 #1 May 31, 2010 like lambs to the slaughter... QuoteFighting broke out between the activists and the masked Israeli troops, who rappelled on to deck from helicopters before dawn. A spokeswoman for the flotilla, Greta Berlin, said she had been told ten people had been killed and dozens wounded, accusing Israeli troops of indiscriminately shooting at "unarmed civilians". But an Israeli radio station said that between 14 and 16 were dead in a continuing operation. How could the Israeli military attack civilians like this?" Ms Berlin said. "Do they think that because they can attack Palestinians indiscriminately they can attack anyone? "We have two other boats. This is not going to stop us." The Israeli government's handling of the confrontation was under intense international pressure even as it continued. The Israeli ambassador to Turkey, the base of one of the human rights organisation which organised the flotilla, was summoned by the foreign ministry in Anakara, as the Israeli consulate in Istanbul came under attack. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/7789175/Israeli-troops-attack-ship-carrying-aid-to-Gaza-killing-16.htmlstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RackJR 0 #2 May 31, 2010 Where is sundevil777 to explain this to us? Please, make sense of this to all of us, since you are so vocal about these issues, and how the Isreali's are the real victims in all this mess. Say what you mean. Do what you say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #3 May 31, 2010 he'll be along to tell us how the civilians actually shot themselves while the israeli troops valiantly tried to stop them... QuoteUnder darkness of night, Israeli commandoes dropped from a helicopter onto the Turkish passenger ship, Mavi Marmara, and began to shoot the moment their feet hit the deck. They fired directly into the crowd of civilians asleep. According to the live video from the ship, two have been killed, and 31 injured. Al Jazeera has just confirmed the numbers. Streaming video shows the Israeli soldiers shooting at civilians, and our last SPOT beacon said, "HELP, we are being contacted by the Israelis." We know nothing about the other five boats. Israel says they are taking over the boats. The coalition of Free Gaza Movement (FG), European Campaign to End the Siege of Gaza (ECESG), Insani Yardim Vakfi (IHH), the Perdana Global Peace Organisation , Ship to Gaza Greece, Ship to Gaza Sweden, and the International Committee to Lift the Siege on Gaza appeal to the international community to demand that Israel stop their brutal attack on civilians delivering vitally needed aid to the imprisoned Palestinians of Gaza and permit the ships to continue on their way. The attack has happened in international waters, 75 miles off the coast of Israel, in direct violation of international law. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2010/may/31/israel-troops-gaza-shipsstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #4 May 31, 2010 Quotelike lambs to the slaughter and the 6 wounded (2 criticically) soldirer were hurt by the breeze, right? While it is an unfortunate outcome that shouldn't have happened, this is exactly what the organizers have hoped for. if all they wanted was helping Gaza, they would have accepted the offer to transer the supplies peacefully like is being done daily through Israel and/or Egypt. still, Israel shouldn't have been dragged into this provocation "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remibond 0 #5 May 31, 2010 QuoteQuotelike lambs to the slaughter and the 6 wounded (2 criticically) soldirer were hurt by the breeze, right? While it is an unfortunate outcome that shouldn't have happened, this is exactly what the organizers have hoped for. if all they wanted was helping Gaza, they would have accepted the offer to transer the supplies peacefully like is being done daily through Israel and/or Egypt. still, Israel shouldn't have been dragged into this provocation They were illegally boarded by armed men in the middle of the night. I don't know about you but violence seems like a pretty reasonable response. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DARK 0 #6 May 31, 2010 Quote They were illegally boarded by armed men in the middle of the night. I don't know about you but violence seems like a pretty reasonable response. there is nothing illegal about intercepting a ship in international waters im undecided on this incident reading this thread is the first i have heard of injured israeli soldiers on one hand up to 19 dead sounds very excessive on the other hand the ship was repeatedly told that there is no aid allowed into gaza without being inspected and they still kept going it sounds to me that they wanted a confrontation and i find it suspicious that twitter was updated almost during the attack but it also seems like israel played right into their handsand went totally over the top Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remibond 0 #7 May 31, 2010 Quotethere is nothing illegal about intercepting a ship in international waters QuoteThe attack has happened in international waters, 75 miles off the coast of Israel, in direct violation of international law. Read the articles. Gaza is a free country in its own right and as such has the right to trade as it wishes. It is not for Israel to dictate what those independent of them can or cannot do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DARK 0 #8 May 31, 2010 QuoteQuotethere is nothing illegal about intercepting a ship in international waters QuoteThe attack has happened in international waters, 75 miles off the coast of Israel, in direct violation of international law. Read the articles. Gaza is a free country in its own right and as such has the right to trade as it wishes. It is not for Israel to dictate what those independent of them can or cannot do. iirc there is no such thing as gaza waters? every piece of water around gaza is irsraeli waters also israel allows no aid to gaza that has not been inspected and this is well known and was repeated to the ship numerous times at the very least these ships knew what they were doing and knew the probable reaction from israel, that dosnt excuse the actions it just means they were deliberately provoking a response which is not the same thing as innocently sailing around the world and being attacked completely randomly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DARK 0 #9 May 31, 2010 QuoteQuotethere is nothing illegal about intercepting a ship in international waters QuoteThe attack has happened in international waters, 75 miles off the coast of Israel, in direct violation of international law. Read the articles. Gaza is a free country in its own right and as such has the right to trade as it wishes. It is not for Israel to dictate what those independent of them can or cannot do. also The Protective Principle The protective principle recognizes that a sovereign can adopt a statute that criminalizes conduct that occurs outside of its borders when that conduct affects the sovereign itself. Under that principle a nation can adopt laws that make it a crime to engage in an act that obstructs the function of government or threatens its security as a state without regard to where or by whom the act is committed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #10 May 31, 2010 Quoteim undecided on this incident reading this thread is the first i have heard of injured israeli soldiers The initial force was equiped mostly with paint guns (anti riot gear) and wes attacked with knives, crow bars and some live ammo (possibly from a gun taken from a wounded soldier). only after an Israeli soldier was thrown off deck (30 feet) and another stabbed, they started using more force. There is a video of the initial takeove showing the guy being thrown off deck by the mob. innocent peace activitsts, sure... I can't believe Israel didn't see this coming considering how much they enjoy the media circus. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #11 May 31, 2010 QuoteQuotethere is nothing illegal about intercepting a ship in international waters QuoteThe attack has happened in international waters, 75 miles off the coast of Israel, in direct violation of international law. Read the articles. Gaza is a free country in its own right and as such has the right to trade as it wishes. It is not for Israel to dictate what those independent of them can or cannot do. 1. Gaza is not a country. 2. Gaza has fallen under control of militants despite attempts to elect its own government (centered at the West Bank). 3. The blockade is both Egyptian and Israeli in nature. 4. This was a lose-lose situation for Israel - Let the aid in, blockade is dissolved, flood-gates are open to whatever. Block the aid, and it's played to the inhumanity of it all. If the organizers of this aid were truly interested in getting the aid to Gaza, then the established channels could have been used quite simply.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #12 May 31, 2010 QuoteWhere is sundevil777 to explain this to us? Please, make sense of this to all of us, since you are so vocal about these issues, and how the Isreali's are the real victims in all this mess. Thanks for the compliment. Are you proud of being so willing to ignore whatever the palestinians do, being so quick to condemn Israel? Others in this thread have already indicated why the story may not be as portrayed by the Telegraph. You should know better to believe the story as reported by the UK Telegraph. So many media sources will simply repeat whatever the palestinian propagandists tell them. With such a long history of so many intentional fabrications, one should wait a little while before making conclusions about what really happened.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DARK 0 #13 May 31, 2010 videos have surfaced from both sides now and the more i hear the more i think that while no1 deserved to die here i cant really fault the soldiers for anything as far as israel is concerned this ship was breaking the law by trying to go threw the blockade maybe it was doing this to ship arms to hamas, they needed to check it out they told the ship this repeatedly and it refused to stop so they decided to board the ship so far i have no problem with israeli actions and it appears the ship knew exactly what it was getting itself into there are reports that shots were fired before any boarding if this is the case this is wrong and unacceptable when the soldiers did board they were quite clearly attacked and well if you attack a soldier who is fully armed then you have to accept the consequences Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DARK 0 #14 May 31, 2010 Quote The initial force was equiped mostly with paint guns (anti riot gear) and wes attacked with knives, crow bars and some live ammo (possibly from a gun taken from a wounded soldier). only after an Israeli soldier was thrown off deck (30 feet) and another stabbed, they started using more force. [/reply have you alink to reports of them going in with riot gear first? iv seent eh video the idf released but there dosnt seem to be any reports of them going in with riot gear on ly in the press iv seen in europe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #15 May 31, 2010 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html Quote Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back. However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons. One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows. and Quote At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness. Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes. This is an Israeli newspaper so you can say it could be biased but considering that all of the rest of the sources take the Palestinian/Turk channels as pure fact, I don't think its an issue (especially when the video shows exactly what is described) "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dreamdancer 0 #16 May 31, 2010 Quote when the soldiers did board they were quite clearly attacked and well if you attack a soldier who is fully armed then you have to accept the consequences if pirates attacked my ship i'd fight back (wouldn't you)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DARK 0 #17 May 31, 2010 an independant link? i dont listen to propoganda from the anti israel side im not going to listen to it from the israelis either there was reuters reporter on one of the israeli ships i think i look forward to his full unedited report Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DARK 0 #18 May 31, 2010 Quote Quote when the soldiers did board they were quite clearly attacked and well if you attack a soldier who is fully armed then you have to accept the consequences if pirates attacked my ship i'd fight back (wouldn't you) no1 was attacked by pirates Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #19 May 31, 2010 define independent? this is an Israeli newspaper, not an Israeli spokesperson. how is it less valid than Al Jazeera or the Turk TV which is quoted as fact? but anyway, just look at the video taken during the initial takeover. you can clearly see the mob storm the first soldier down and then another one being thrown off deck. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dreamdancer 0 #20 May 31, 2010 Quote define independent? this is an Israeli newspaper, not an Israeli spokesperson. how is it less valid than Al Jazeera or the Turk TV which is quoted as fact? but anyway, just look at the video taken during the initial takeover. you can clearly see the mob storm the first soldier down and then another one being thrown off deck. that's what should happen to pirates stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DARK 0 #21 May 31, 2010 Quotedefine independent? this is an Israeli newspaper, not an Israeli spokesperson. how is it less valid than Al Jazeera or the Turk TV which is quoted as fact? but anyway, just look at the video taken during the initial takeover. you can clearly see the mob storm the first soldier down and then another one being thrown off deck. the ap reuters? that reporter is blatantly biased, if there was a similarly biased reporter on the otherside that even briefly mentioned these 'facts' it would help its credibility again there were no pirates involved in what happened Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dreamdancer 0 #22 May 31, 2010 QuoteAyalon, speaking at a press conference at the Foreign Ministry, said that Israel found weapons aboard the Gaza flotilla, which were used against IDF troops. The deputy foreign minister said that the Gaza flotilla did not heed Israel's calls to halt its movement toward Gaza on Monday morning, and stressed that no sovereign country would have allowed such a provocation to take place. "We couldn't allow the opening of a corridor of smuggling arms and terrorists," said Ayalon. The deputy foreign minister told reporters that Israel does not want to fight with any country, but that the incident on the Gaza flotilla is not yet over. Meanwhile, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu canceled his imminent trip to the United States, in wake of the murders of at least 10 people after Israel Navy troops boarded a flotilla of ships heading to the Gaza Strip carrying aid. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/netanyahu-regrets-gaza-flotilla-deaths-but-defends-israeli-troops-for-opening-fire-1.293187stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #23 May 31, 2010 here you go http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64U27020100531 "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 197 #24 May 31, 2010 Quote Quote when the soldiers did board they were quite clearly attacked and well if you attack a soldier who is fully armed then you have to accept the consequences if pirates attacked my ship i'd fight back (wouldn't you) Only if you knew they were pirates. Nice try. Everyone involved knew what was going to happen.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dreamdancer 0 #25 May 31, 2010 Quote Quote Quote when the soldiers did board they were quite clearly attacked and well if you attack a soldier who is fully armed then you have to accept the consequences if pirates attacked my ship i'd fight back (wouldn't you) Only if you knew they were pirates. Nice try. Everyone involved knew what was going to happen. everyone knew armed pirates were going to murder innocent passengers and civilians?stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 1 of 16 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
falxori 0 #15 May 31, 2010 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html Quote Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back. However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons. One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows. and Quote At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness. Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes. This is an Israeli newspaper so you can say it could be biased but considering that all of the rest of the sources take the Palestinian/Turk channels as pure fact, I don't think its an issue (especially when the video shows exactly what is described) "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #16 May 31, 2010 Quote when the soldiers did board they were quite clearly attacked and well if you attack a soldier who is fully armed then you have to accept the consequences if pirates attacked my ship i'd fight back (wouldn't you)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DARK 0 #17 May 31, 2010 an independant link? i dont listen to propoganda from the anti israel side im not going to listen to it from the israelis either there was reuters reporter on one of the israeli ships i think i look forward to his full unedited report Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DARK 0 #18 May 31, 2010 Quote Quote when the soldiers did board they were quite clearly attacked and well if you attack a soldier who is fully armed then you have to accept the consequences if pirates attacked my ship i'd fight back (wouldn't you) no1 was attacked by pirates Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #19 May 31, 2010 define independent? this is an Israeli newspaper, not an Israeli spokesperson. how is it less valid than Al Jazeera or the Turk TV which is quoted as fact? but anyway, just look at the video taken during the initial takeover. you can clearly see the mob storm the first soldier down and then another one being thrown off deck. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #20 May 31, 2010 Quote define independent? this is an Israeli newspaper, not an Israeli spokesperson. how is it less valid than Al Jazeera or the Turk TV which is quoted as fact? but anyway, just look at the video taken during the initial takeover. you can clearly see the mob storm the first soldier down and then another one being thrown off deck. that's what should happen to pirates stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DARK 0 #21 May 31, 2010 Quotedefine independent? this is an Israeli newspaper, not an Israeli spokesperson. how is it less valid than Al Jazeera or the Turk TV which is quoted as fact? but anyway, just look at the video taken during the initial takeover. you can clearly see the mob storm the first soldier down and then another one being thrown off deck. the ap reuters? that reporter is blatantly biased, if there was a similarly biased reporter on the otherside that even briefly mentioned these 'facts' it would help its credibility again there were no pirates involved in what happened Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #22 May 31, 2010 QuoteAyalon, speaking at a press conference at the Foreign Ministry, said that Israel found weapons aboard the Gaza flotilla, which were used against IDF troops. The deputy foreign minister said that the Gaza flotilla did not heed Israel's calls to halt its movement toward Gaza on Monday morning, and stressed that no sovereign country would have allowed such a provocation to take place. "We couldn't allow the opening of a corridor of smuggling arms and terrorists," said Ayalon. The deputy foreign minister told reporters that Israel does not want to fight with any country, but that the incident on the Gaza flotilla is not yet over. Meanwhile, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu canceled his imminent trip to the United States, in wake of the murders of at least 10 people after Israel Navy troops boarded a flotilla of ships heading to the Gaza Strip carrying aid. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/netanyahu-regrets-gaza-flotilla-deaths-but-defends-israeli-troops-for-opening-fire-1.293187stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #23 May 31, 2010 here you go http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64U27020100531 "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #24 May 31, 2010 Quote Quote when the soldiers did board they were quite clearly attacked and well if you attack a soldier who is fully armed then you have to accept the consequences if pirates attacked my ship i'd fight back (wouldn't you) Only if you knew they were pirates. Nice try. Everyone involved knew what was going to happen.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #25 May 31, 2010 Quote Quote Quote when the soldiers did board they were quite clearly attacked and well if you attack a soldier who is fully armed then you have to accept the consequences if pirates attacked my ship i'd fight back (wouldn't you) Only if you knew they were pirates. Nice try. Everyone involved knew what was going to happen. everyone knew armed pirates were going to murder innocent passengers and civilians?stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
