This economic recovery....

[SivaGanesha 2]

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If the US of A were to balance trade, and then to export an extra $1,000 a month worth of goods and services for every gainfully employed citizen, it would take half a century for us to be out of debt - not blood likely.

I have two concerns about this.

I'm not sure where you come up with these numbers. The national debt is currently $13T and the labor force has 150M people. It would take a little over 7 years--not 50 years--to pay it off at $1k/month for each person.

Second, even if it WERE 50 years, people shouldn't throw up their hands and throw in the towel. People should be thinking in terms of what kind of America they want to leave their children and grandchildren. If it takes 50 years to pay it off it still should be done to leave a better America for future generations.

People should be thinking in terms of what needs to be done in the current situation, not rolling over and playing dead a-la KAQ or TS.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[billvon 2,434]

>Any reports of economic recovery are lies.

Ah, it seems like only yesterday that Bush supporters were claiming any indications of a recession were lies. "It's a bad day to be crying the R word" read one post right here on DZ.com. After all, any talk of a recession hurt Bush!

Now that there's a democrat in office, republicans are praying for a deep, painful and long recession, and attacking anyone who claims that we're recovering. Funny how that works.

[winsor 187]

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If the US of A were to balance trade, and then to export an extra $1,000 a month worth of goods and services for every gainfully employed citizen, it would take half a century for us to be out of debt - not blood likely.

I have two concerns about this.

I'm not sure where you come up with these numbers. The national debt is currently $13T and the labor force has 150M people. It would take a little over 7 years--not 50 years--to pay it off at $1k/month for each person.

Second, even if it WERE 50 years, people shouldn't throw up their hands and throw in the towel. People should be thinking in terms of what kind of America they want to leave their children and grandchildren. If it takes 50 years to pay it off it still should be done to leave a better America for future generations.

People should be thinking in terms of what needs to be done in the current situation, not rolling over and playing dead a-la KAQ or TS.

A third of the population works for the Governement, which I list as "overhead." Necessary though they may be, they do not bring anything to the table economically speaking.

If you throw in interest, it changes the equation completely. Perhaps the model of a 30 year mortgage, where you don't make a dent in the principal for the first 20 years, is more accurate, but it still is not going to happen in my lifetime.

I do not recommend throwing in the towel, but I also would not recommend expecting much of anyone inside the beltway to get a clue. They tend to have only the most garbled concept of what happened when all the facts are in, and for them to make sense of what is going on in real time is out of the question.

Face it - Congress is hardly a Mensa Convention. The people that elect them are no better, and all too many people go through life convinced of an endless litany on nonsense. Thus there is, unfortunately, zero chance that the population will catch on and come to a set of conclusions that is consistent with long-term survival.

It has been fun while it lasted. Enjoy yourself - it's later than you think.


BSBD,

Winsor

[winsor 187]

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>Any reports of economic recovery are lies.

Ah, it seems like only yesterday that Bush supporters were claiming any indications of a recession were lies. "It's a bad day to be crying the R word" read one post right here on DZ.com. After all, any talk of a recession hurt Bush!

Now that there's a democrat in office, republicans are praying for a deep, painful and long recession, and attacking anyone who claims that we're recovering. Funny how that works.

Okay, we get it. Republicans bad, Democrats good - Bush dumb, Obama smart.

I realize that blamestorming makes some people happy, but the truth is that there is plenty of blame to go around.

FWIW, both sides of the aisle are bastions of mediocrity, so getting smug about how wretched is the other side does not buy you much.

[redlegphi 0]

Pretty much the only way to get out of a depression or a recession is spending. Either the private or public sector have to spend money to buy shit, increasing demand, leading to industry creating more jobs to increase supply to fill that demand. President Hoover figured the government should stay out of things and that the private sector would work things out themselves. I think we all know how well that turned out. In general, in times of economic downturn, the natural inclination of people is to hoard what they have. While this is smart of them on the micro scale, it hurts the economy on the macro scale. So, since we can't count on the private sector to spend the money to pull us out of this downturn, that pretty much only leaves us with the government. No, it's not ideal that the government has to borrow a shitload of money in order to "prime the pump" of our economy, but the infusion of cash does lead to people having more money to spend, which is gradually increasing demand for products, which will eventually lead to better unemployment numbers. The alternative is to sit back and hope that the American people will start buying shit with money they don't have in order to prime the pump themselves. Historically, that isn't what happens.

[kallend 1,647]

We have a serious structural problem, which is that we consume more than we make. This is quite independent of government.

Our trade balance with China is terrible and I see no way it will be improved, since we don't produce much of anything that they want or need.

We have got this way by creating a society in which the way to success is not to create wealth, but to manipulate it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Rstanley0312 0]

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Markets being propped up by "hope" will never hold.

I notice a lot of doublespeak when it comes to the economy.

For example, I heard someone on CNBC (forget who) saying that the "economic recovery is strong" but for now people just need to "tread water".

Most people, I suspect, wouldn't notice the contradiction but it is obvious to me. You only get a recovery when people are willing to take risks. If everyone is just "treading water"--ie waiting for others to take the first risk--then there won't be an economic recovery.

That's true but also false. It takes the big money taking the risk to lead the way not the common investor which is whom I would suppose the instruction was for but valid point and that will never end.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[tr027 0]

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Pretty much the only way to get out of a depression or a recession is spending.

i disagree. you as an individual cant borrow and spend your way to wealth and prosperity and neither can the country as a whole. my 2 cents

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[kallend 1,647]

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Pretty much the only way to get out of a depression or a recession is spending.

i disagree. you as an individual cant borrow and spend your way to wealth and prosperity and neither can the country as a whole. my 2 cents

Of course you can.

You go to the bank with a business plan to make a better computer. Bank lends you money. You start making computers in your garage. People buy them. You make better computers. People buy them. You introduce a better portable music device. People buy them You introduce a better phone. People buy them. You are Steve Jobs, a billionaire.

Much the same story with Motorola, Microsoft, HP, Google and countless others where the company was started with borrowed money and a good idea.

It's called investing for the future.

Of course, we could also borrow money and piss it away on a war fought under false pretenses.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[winsor 187]

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Pretty much the only way to get out of a depression or a recession is spending.

i disagree. you as an individual cant borrow and spend your way to wealth and prosperity and neither can the country as a whole. my 2 cents

Of course you can.

You go to the bank with a business plan to make a better computer. Bank lends you money. You start making computers in your garage. People buy them. You make better computers. People buy them. You introduce a better portable music device. People buy them You introduce a better phone. People buy them. You are Steve Jobs, a billionaire.

Much the same story with Motorola, Microsoft, HP, Google and countless others where the company was started with borrowed money and a good idea.

It's called investing for the future.

Of course, we could also borrow money and piss it away on a war fought under false pretenses.

If you read Sun Tzu or Niccolo Machiavelli or Carl von Clausewitz it becomes apparent that a war can wipe you out economically - regardless of the casus belli (or absence thereof).

Baseless Blitzkrieg has a lot more to recommend it economically than does a fully justified military quagmire.

Unfortunately, we, as a country, have a pretty sorry record of both going to war ("Remember the Maine!") and muddling through the end game. Perhaps a working knowledge of History would help some of our decision-makers, but we may never know.


BSBD,

Winsor

[Rstanley0312 0]

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Pretty much the only way to get out of a depression or a recession is spending.

i disagree. you as an individual cant borrow and spend your way to wealth and prosperity and neither can the country as a whole. my 2 cents

Of course you can.

You go to the bank with a business plan to make a better computer. Bank lends you money. You start making computers in your garage. People buy them. You make better computers. People buy them. You introduce a better portable music device. People buy them You introduce a better phone. People buy them. You are Steve Jobs, a billionaire.

Much the same story with Motorola, Microsoft, HP, Google and countless others where the company was started with borrowed money and a good idea.

It's called investing for the future.

Of course, we could also borrow money and piss it away on a war fought under false pretenses.

Or just piss it away on everything else the Govt. does which far exceeds the money spent on the war but keep playing that same string.....

Steve Jobs and the US Govt. are totally different. That company knows how to manage money.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[kallend 1,647]

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Pretty much the only way to get out of a depression or a recession is spending.

i disagree. you as an individual cant borrow and spend your way to wealth and prosperity and neither can the country as a whole. my 2 cents

Of course you can.

You go to the bank with a business plan to make a better computer. Bank lends you money. You start making computers in your garage. People buy them. You make better computers. People buy them. You introduce a better portable music device. People buy them You introduce a better phone. People buy them. You are Steve Jobs, a billionaire.

Much the same story with Motorola, Microsoft, HP, Google and countless others where the company was started with borrowed money and a good idea.

It's called investing for the future.

Of course, we could also borrow money and piss it away on a war fought under false pretenses.

Or just piss it away on everything else the Govt. does which far exceeds the money spent on the war but keep playing that same string.....

Steve Jobs and the US Govt. are totally different. That company knows how to manage money.

Well, let's think about "everything else the govt. does":

I take it that you consider social security payments to people who have worked hard all their lives and paid their taxes to be pissing money away.

I take it you consider the building of and maintenance of the interstate highway system to be a waste of money.

I take it you consider National Parks a waste of money.

I take it you consider air traffic control a waste of money.

I take it you consider the US Coast Guard a waste of money.

I take it you consider the FBI a waste of money.

I take it you consider the CIA a waste of money.

I take it you consider the Federal Court System a waste of money.

...

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Rstanley0312 0]

Quote

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Pretty much the only way to get out of a depression or a recession is spending.

i disagree. you as an individual cant borrow and spend your way to wealth and prosperity and neither can the country as a whole. my 2 cents

Of course you can.

You go to the bank with a business plan to make a better computer. Bank lends you money. You start making computers in your garage. People buy them. You make better computers. People buy them. You introduce a better portable music device. People buy them You introduce a better phone. People buy them. You are Steve Jobs, a billionaire.

Much the same story with Motorola, Microsoft, HP, Google and countless others where the company was started with borrowed money and a good idea.

It's called investing for the future.

Of course, we could also borrow money and piss it away on a war fought under false pretenses.

Or just piss it away on everything else the Govt. does which far exceeds the money spent on the war but keep playing that same string.....

Steve Jobs and the US Govt. are totally different. That company knows how to manage money.

Well, let's think about "everything else the govt. does":

I take it that you consider social security payments to people who have worked hard all their lives and paid their taxes to be pissing money away.

I take it you consider the building of and maintenance of the interstate highway system to be a waste of money.

I take it you consider National Parks a waste of money.

I take it you consider air traffic control a waste of money.

I take it you consider the US Coast Guard a waste of money.

I take it you consider the FBI a waste of money.

I take it you consider the CIA a waste of money.

I take it you consider the Federal Court System a waste of money.

...

No I don't... the concept of SS is not a horrible one. All pay in the same perfcentage and get that back. I would prefer to handle it myself bc I feel I can do better with MY own money but I don't hate the concept. I wish taxes worked that way. The other stuff I am not against either. Perhaps the anmount of money going to national parks but I'm not angry about that. It's funny you always list those items. You do it bc you know most except the extreme right will say the money should not go to those programs. You never list the crap that is a huge waste and I believe you know its there.

1. The Missing $25 Billion

Buried in the Department of the Treasury's 2003 Financial Report of the United States Government is a short section titled "Unreconciled Transactions Affecting the Change in Net Position," which explains that these unreconciled transactions totaled $24.5 billion in 2003.[2]

The unreconciled transactions are funds for which auditors cannot account: The government knows that $25 billion was spent by someone, somewhere, on something, but auditors do not know who spent it, where it was spent, or on what it was spent. Blaming these unreconciled transactions on the failure of federal agencies to report their expenditures adequately, the Treasury report concludes that locating the money is "a priority."

The unreconciled $25 billion could have funded the entire Department of Justice for an entire year.

2. Unused Flight Tickets Totaling $100 Million

A recent audit revealed that between 1997 and 2003, the Defense Department purchased and then left unused approximately 270,000 commercial airline tickets at a total cost of $100 million. Even worse, the Pentagon never bothered to get a refund for these fully refundable tickets. The GAO blamed a system that relied on department personnel to notify the travel office when purchased tickets went unused.[3]

Auditors also found 27,000 transactions between 2001 and 2002 in which the Pentagon paid twice for the same ticket. The department would purchase the ticket directly and then inexplicably reimburse the employee for the cost of the ticket. (In one case, an employee who allegedly made seven false claims for airline tickets professed not to have noticed that $9,700 was deposited into his/her account). These additional transactions cost taxpayers $8 million.

This $108 million could have purchased seven Blackhawk helicopters, 17 M1 Abrams tanks, or a large supply of additional body armor for U.S. troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

3. Embezzled Funds at the Department of Agriculture

Federal employee credit card programs were designed to save money. Rather than weaving through a lengthy procurement process to acquire basic supplies, federal employees could purchase job-related products with credit cards that would be paid by their agency. What began as a smart way to streamline government has since been corrupted by some federal employees who have abused the public trust.

A recent audit revealed that employees of the Department of Agriculture (USDA) diverted millions of dollars to personal purchases through their government-issued credit cards. Sampling 300 employees' purchases over six months, investigators estimated that 15 percent abused their government credit cards at a cost of $5.8 million. Taxpayer-funded purchases included Ozzy Osbourne concert tickets, tattoos, lingerie, bartender school tuition, car payments, and cash advances.

The USDA has pledged a thorough investigation, but it will have a huge task: 55,000 USDA credit cards are in circulation, including 1,549 that are still held by people who no longer work at the USDA.[4]

4. Credit Card Abuse at the Department of Defense

The Defense Department has uncovered its own credit card scandal. Over one recent 18-month period, Air Force and Navy personnel used government-funded credit cards to charge at least $102,400 for admission to entertainment events, $48,250 for gambling, $69,300 for cruises, and $73,950 for exotic dance clubs and prostitutes.[5]

5. Medicare Overspending

Medicare wastes more money than any other federal program, yet its strong public support leaves lawmakers hesitant to address program efficiencies, which cost taxpayers and Medicare recipients billions of dollars annually.

For example, Medicare pays as much as eight times what other federal agencies pay for the same drugs and medical supplies.[6] The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) recently compared the prices paid by Medicare and the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) health care program for 16 types of medical equipment and supplies, which account for one-quarter of Medicare's equipment and supplies purchases. The evidence showed that Medicare paid an average of more than double what the VA paid for the same items. The largest difference was for saline solution, with Medicare paying $8.26 per liter compared to the $1.02 paid by the VA.[7] (See Table 1.)



These higher prices not only cost the program more money, but also take more money out of the pockets of Medicare beneficiaries. In 2002, senior citizens' co-payments accounted for 20 percent of the $9.4 billion in allowed claims for medical equipment and supplies.[8] Higher prices mean higher co-payments.

Medicare also overpays for drugs. In 2000, Medicare's payments for 24 leading drugs were $1.9 billion higher than they would have been under the prices paid by the VA or other federal agencies. Although Medicare is supposed to pay wholesale prices for drugs, it relies on drug manufacturers to define the prices, and manufacturers have strong incentives to inflate their prices.[9]

Nor are inflated prices for drugs and supplies the most expensive examples of Medicare's inefficiencies. Basic payment errors-the results of deliberate fraud and administrative errors-cost $12.3 billion annually. As much as $7 billion owed to the program has gone uncollected or has been written off.[10] Finally, while Medicare contracts claims processing and administration to several private companies, 19 cases of contractor fraud have been settled in recent years, with a maximum settlement of $76 million.[11]

Putting it all together, Medicare reform could save taxpayers and program beneficiaries $20 billion to $30 billion annually without reducing benefits. That would be enough to fund a $3,000 refundable health care tax credit for nearly 10 million uninsured low-income households.

6. Funding Fictitious Colleges and Students

In 2002, the Department of Education received an application to certify the student loan participation of the Y'Hica Institute in London, England. After approving the certification, the department received and approved student loan applications from three Y'Hica students and disbursed $55,000.

The Education Department administrators overlooked one problem: Neither the Y'Hica Institute nor the three students who received the $55,000 existed. The fictitious college and students were created (on paper) by congressional investigators to test the Department of Education's verification procedures. All of the documents were faked, right down to naming one of the fictional loan student applicants "Susan M. Collins," after the Senator requesting the investigation.[12]

Such carelessness helps to explain why federal student loan programs routinely receive poor management reviews from government auditors. At last count, $21.8 billion worth of student loans are in default, and too many cases of fraud are left undetected.[13] Tracking students across federal programs, verifying loan application data with IRS income data, and implementing controls to prevent the disbursement of loans to fraudulent applicants could save taxpayers billions of dollars.

7. Manipulating Data to Encourage Spending

The Army Corps of Engineers spends $5 billion annually constructing dams and other water projects. Yet, in a massive conflict of interest, it is also charged with evaluating the science and economics of each proposed water project. The Corps' "strategic vision" calls on managers to increase their budgets as rapidly as possible, which requires approving as many proposed projects as possible.[14] Consequently, the Corps has repeatedly been accused of deliberately manipulating its economic studies to justify unworthy projects.

Investigations by the GAO, The Washington Post, and several private organizations have found that Corps studies routinely contain dozens of basic arithmetic errors, computer errors, and ridiculous economic assumptions that artificially inflate the benefits of water projects by as much as 300 percent.[15] In one case, a study's authors inflated a project's benefits by using a 2.5 percent interest rate that dated back to 1954. In many cases in which the Corps calculated that a project would be a net benefit, arithmetic corrections revealed that the costs would be many times greater than the benefits.[16] By that point, of course, the unnecessary and wasteful project is often underway and cannot be stopped.

These errors appear to reflect more deception than sloppiness. A Washington Post investigation uncovered managers ordering analysts to "get creative," to "look for ways to get to yes as fast as possible," and "not to take no for an answer." After a public outcry, in 2002, the Corps suspended work on 150 projects to review the economics used to justify them.[17] However, given the combination of Congress's thirst for pork-barrel projects and the Corps' built-in incentives to approve projects that will increase its budget, real reforms seem unlikely.

8. State Abuse of Medicaid Funding Formulas

Significant waste, fraud, and abuse pervade Medicaid, which provides health services to 44 million low-income Americans. While states run their own Medicaid programs, the federal government reimburses an average of 57 percent of each state's costs.

This system gives states an incentive to overreport their Medicaid expenditures in order to receive larger federal reimbursements. Not surprisingly, the GAO has identified state schemes that shift money between state accounts to create an illusion of higher Medicaid expenditures. Similarly, some states have spent their federal Medicaid dollars on non-Medicaid purposes. Tight state budgets like those experienced by most states today have increased the pressure to use such deceptive tactics.

The GAO and the HHS Inspector General have also uncovered some states' practice of recovering improper payments, retaining the funds, and then spending them on unrelated programs-a practice that costs the federal government well over $2 billion per year. Congress could enact legislation to prohibit these actions more effectively.

Minor reforms enacted by HHS in 2001 and 2002 are expected to save Medicaid $70 billion over the next decade. A small sample of financing schemes uncovered in a few states suggests that, if Congress acts, even larger savings are available.[18]

9. Earned Income Tax Credit Overpayments

The earned income tax credit (EITC) provides $31 billion in refundable tax credits to 19 million low-income families. The IRS estimates that $8.5 billion to $9.9 billion of this amount-nearly one-third-is wasted in overpayments.

The complexity of the EITC law leads to many of these mistakes. Calculating the credits is more complex than calculating regular income taxes. While the credit amount depends on the number of children in a household, the tax code does not clearly define how a child qualifies for the credit. In addition, fraud and underreporting of income are common, and the IRS lacks the resources to verify the qualifications of all EITC claimants.

Efforts are being made to address this problem, but Congress can do more by requiring better verification of incomes and by clearly defining the standards by which a child qualifies for the EITC.[19]

10. Redundancy Piled on Redundancy

Government's layering of new programs on top of old ones inherently creates duplication. Having several agencies perform similar duties is wasteful and confuses program beneficiaries who must navigate each program's distinct rules and requirements.

Some overlap is inevitable because some agencies are defined by whom they serve (e.g., veterans, Native Americans, urbanites, and rural families), while others are defined by what they provide (e.g., housing, education, health care, and economic development). When these agencies' constituencies overlap, each relevant agency will often have its own program. With 342 separate economic development programs, the federal government needs to make consolidation a priority.

Just to name a few.....

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2005/04/Top-10-Examples-of-Government-Waste

more

http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspiring-people-and-stories/the-government-is-wasting-your-tax-dollars/article50629.html

etcetera, etcetera

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[kallend 1,647]

What part of "everything else" (your words) do you not understand?

(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Rstanley0312 0]

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What part of "everything else" (your words) do you not understand?

(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD).

Keep reading "everything else the government does" Stop playing semantics. Let me rephrase.... everything the government wastes money on..... and thank you for agreeing with me. I never said the DoD does not waste money. I agree with you so make a point. ??? "my precious DoD"? Where did that come from. You sound more and more like someone with an axe to grind.... sorry Kall you are coming at the wrong guy. I want all waste to be cut.

I also like the "(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD)." statement especially bc it is a generalization and unproven. Don't get upset Kall. If you would read what I provided you would see many other areas rack up way more than the DoD.
One last time though... the DoD needs to make some cuts as well.It's not that you are wrong you are just blinded by your extreme bias.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[mnealtx 0]

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What part of "everything else" (your words) do you not understand?

(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD).

Maybe you can show where he stated that everying except DOD was wasted spending, as you imply.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Rstanley0312 0]

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What part of "everything else" (your words) do you not understand?

(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD).

Maybe you can show where he stated that everying except DOD was wasted spending, as you imply.

What I cited actually referred to the DoD's waste.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Quote

What part of "everything else" (your words) do you not understand?

(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD).

Maybe you can show where he stated that everying except DOD was wasted spending, as you imply.

Try reading BEFORE you hit "post reply", it will save us all time.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Quote

What part of "everything else" (your words) do you not understand?

(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD).

Keep reading "everything else the government does" Stop playing semantics. Let me rephrase.... everything the government wastes money on....]

OK, but you actually wrote "Or just piss it away on everything else the Govt. does which far exceeds the money spent on the war". You haven't shown that the waste you cited exceeded the cost of the war Bush waged under false pretenses. Far from it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

What part of "everything else" (your words) do you not understand?

(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD).

Maybe you can show where he stated that everying except DOD was wasted spending, as you imply.

Try reading BEFORE you hit "post reply", it will save us all time.

And maybe you could try answering the question.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[turtlespeed 212]

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Quote

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What part of "everything else" (your words) do you not understand?

(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD).

Maybe you can show where he stated that everying except DOD was wasted spending, as you imply.

Try reading BEFORE you hit "post reply", it will save us all time.

And maybe you could try answering the question.

Diversion is so much more his style, I would't expect real ansers - he just practices to be a true politician whenever he can.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,647]

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Quote

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What part of "everything else" (your words) do you not understand?

(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD).

Maybe you can show where he stated that everying except DOD was wasted spending, as you imply.

Try reading BEFORE you hit "post reply", it will save us all time.

And maybe you could try answering the question.

"Or just piss it away on everything else the Govt. does which far exceeds the money spent on the war".

Piss is a waste product. Even you should be able to grasp that analogy.

The waste he then cited was far from exceeding the cost of Bush's war.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Rstanley0312 0]

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Quote

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What part of "everything else" (your words) do you not understand?

(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD).

Keep reading "everything else the government does" Stop playing semantics. Let me rephrase.... everything the government wastes money on....]

OK, but you actually wrote "Or just piss it away on everything else the Govt. does which far exceeds the money spent on the war". You haven't shown that the waste you cited exceeded the cost of the war Bush waged under false pretenses. Far from it.

Yes I did if you read the link..... that same string over and over... you cannot help it can you.

Anyway, the point is its all waste to me.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

What part of "everything else" (your words) do you not understand?

(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD).

Keep reading "everything else the government does" Stop playing semantics. Let me rephrase.... everything the government wastes money on....]

OK, but you actually wrote "Or just piss it away on everything else the Govt. does which far exceeds the money spent on the war". You haven't shown that the waste you cited exceeded the cost of the war Bush waged under false pretenses. Far from it.

Yes I did if you read the link..... that same string over and over... you cannot help it can you.

Anyway, the point is its all waste to me.

I think you misunderestimate the cost of Bush's war. When all is added up, including continuing healthcare for injured servicemen, it is well over $1 Trillion.

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[Rstanley0312 0]

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What part of "everything else" (your words) do you not understand?

(PS a lot of that waste came from your precious DoD).

Keep reading "everything else the government does" Stop playing semantics. Let me rephrase.... everything the government wastes money on....]

OK, but you actually wrote "Or just piss it away on everything else the Govt. does which far exceeds the money spent on the war". You haven't shown that the waste you cited exceeded the cost of the war Bush waged under false pretenses. Far from it.

Yes I did if you read the link..... that same string over and over... you cannot help it can you.

Anyway, the point is its all waste to me.

I think you misunderestimate the cost of Bush's war. When all is added up, including continuing healthcare for injured servicemen, it is well over $1 Trillion.

Ok Kall..... one more time. I do NOT like the waste! The DoD needs to cut back as well. I am not a fan of war unless it needs to happen which I do believe SOMETIMES it does. Stop making this about Bush. The point is the US Govt. pisses money away every day. Bush did it now Obama is doing it on a larger scale. It needs to STOP! Get my point yet?

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