Interesting Muslim stuff

[Darius11 12]

For the record i want 72 porn stars

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Coreece 190]

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Would an atheist ever risk his/her life for the greater good of mankind? Or when it comes to the ultimate sacrifice it is simply a sacrifice they would not make for anyone? Just curios.

I think it has more to do with genetics and brain chemistry...not religion.

Some are born to run toward danger, while others are born to run away from it...I think both are equally necessary.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[rushmc 18]

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For the record i want 72 porn stars

For the record
what size dicks do you want them to have?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Darius11 12]

-7" will be fine

LOL

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rushmc 18]

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-7" will be fine

LOL

Took me a second!!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,426]

>Would an atheist ever risk his/her life for the greater good of mankind?

They can and have. A great many atheists have died in service of their country, while working as a police officer, while in a fire department etc.

Interesting side note - read a story about a survivor from a Navy destroyer that sank. He was in the water for four days; most of the people who went in the water died. The ones who survived were more atheist than not. His theory was that the ones who died figured they had someplace better to go.

[Coreece 190]

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Interesting side note - read a story about a survivor from a Navy destroyer that sank. He was in the water for four days; most of the people who went in the water died. The ones who survived were more atheist than not. His theory was that the ones who died figured they had someplace better to go.

When I was living in Canyon Country, I attended Grace Community Church in Sun Valley...There I heard the story of John and Nora Romanoski from Brigham City, Utah, missionaries to the Mormons...

They had two beautilful daughters and decided to come on down for summer vacation and enroll their oldest daughter into the Master's Seminary. (located at Grace Community Church) They also brought along two foreign exchange students from Italy (not Christain) for evangelical purposes. They left the college after registration and John pulled through a red light onto Sierra Hwy and was struck by a truck at full speed. His two daughters were thrown from the car and killed instantly...lying in the street.

People would ask the question...this is a missionary? Why would God let this happen to a faithful missionary, giving his life to reach Mormons with the gospel.

I will never forget his answer and it was the first thing I remembered as I read your post...

“First I thought maybe this was a dream and it didn't happen. Maybe this just...I'm going to wake up and it will all be okay. But I know that's not true. I brought my family down here because I wanted my daughters to have a big church experience. Our church is very small. I wanted them to hear a big choir. I just didn't think that the big church would be the glorified saints and the choir would be the heavenly choir....I know my girls knew Christ and they're in His presence. I'm so thankful he took them and spared those two unconverted boys."

EDIT
The two Italian boys survived their injuries at Henry Mayo Hospital...

I would just like to add that this is one of the most profound statements of faith I've ever heard. It shows Gods love for all..."He imparts numerous advantages, blessings, and tokens of His kindness on both the righteous and the unrighteous" (Matt. 5:45).

These statements humble me and help keep me on track...I believe all Christians should display such faith and humility...and show love and respect to those who disagree with our beliefs..for we have all been there.

It is to my shame that I say some of the things I say in my posts and my ungodly references that only display my fleshy ignorance and desires...

I apologize to all those I have offended...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHQ_aTjXObs

...and as always...listen till the very end...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[redlegphi 0]

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Possibly, but atheists tend not to want to die even if they believe strongly in a cause as they have no afterlife. The whole reincarnation, heaven, 72 virgins thing just isn't effective as an incentive.

Good point !


Would an atheist ever risk his/her life for the greater good of mankind? Or when it comes to the ultimate sacrifice it is simply a sacrifice they would not make for anyone? Just curios.

I wouldn't call myself an atheist at this point, though I'm probably pretty close to agnostic, so I think the question still applies. As somebody who admits that I have no idea what happens when I die, I value my life here highly. This doesn't mean that I'm going to go into a protective bubble and try to prolong my life as long as possible. Rather it means that I will try to make my life as valuable as possible. I do this by trying to live life to the fullest (skydiving) and by trying to use my life to make a difference. I have no desire to die, but there are certainly situations where self-sacrifice could help maximize the value of the life I've lived.
Just my two cents, since we're waxing philosophical and such.

[Darius11 12]

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His theory was that the ones who died figured they had someplace better to go.

Oh I can see that for sure. That’s kind of the same reason I thought maybe that would effect someone’s willingness to sacrifice themselves.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Bolas 5]

A slight reorganization of your post and you have your answers:

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People would ask the question...this is a missionary? Why would God let this happen to a faithful missionary, giving his life to reach Mormons with the gospel.

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John pulled through a red light onto Sierra Hwy and was struck by a truck at full speed. His two daughters were thrown from the car and killed instantly...lying in the street.

Sound like they weren't wearing seatbelts as well.

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I know my girls knew Christ and they're in His presence. I'm so thankful he took them and spared those two unconverted boys."

EDIT
The two Italian boys survived their injuries at Henry Mayo Hospital...

Or those boys may have been wearing seatbelts.

Also what could be taken from this story is God will allow his followers to die, but saves those that don't. Doesn't seem like a convincing argument to me to find religion.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Coreece 190]

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Also what could be taken from this story is God will allow his followers to die, but saves those that don't. Doesn't seem like a convincing argument to me to find religion.

Far be it from me to ever present an argument that would actually convince somebody to believe that they could actually find God on their own...that would actually be antithetical to Christianity...I like you alot, but your ignorance on this subjuect troubles me...

Did you miss the point completely?

Who are you trying to impress?

It'd be best you stick that tongue back in lest it be cutt off...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Bolas 5]

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Also what could be taken from this story is God will allow his followers to die, but saves those that don't. Doesn't seem like a convincing argument to me to find religion.

Far be it from me to ever present an argument that would actually convince somebody to believe that they could actually find God on their own...that would actually be antithetical to Christianity...I like you alot, but your ignorance on this subjuect troubles me...

Did you miss the point completely?

Who are you trying to impress?

It'd be best you stick that tongue back in lest it be cutt off...

I do apologize as that was not truly an argument for the existence of God, just the delusions and denial of a man that just accidently killed his daughters who was searching for any reason it happened other than it being his own fault.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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Did you miss the point completely?

I think you miss the point completely. All these stories are merely testimonials to some people's remarkable ability to interpret any possible circumstance to fit their pre-existing belief system. If you already believe there is a "God with and inscrutable plan" anything can be rationalized, but it's just self-fulfilling circular "reasoning". Is there any possible event that would suffice to convince you that there is not a God directing everything according to His Will? I doubt it very much. If people can explain away innocent people suffering terrible diseases, or the Holocaust, or two unseatbelted girls killed because Dad ran a red light, as the "Will of God", then what would it take to raise doubt? This is why religion is so unappealing to me: it explains everything and nothing at the same time. Unlike empiricism (e.g. science), in religion nothing can be falsified with evidence (as there is no evidence other than personal "revelation"), and so nothing can be objectively known. That doesn't mean that there is no God, but if there is no physical evidence and the whole belief system is founded on Bronze Age mythologies there is (IMHO) no reason to reject empirical evidence of reality (i.e. materialism) and substitute invisible, undetectable supernatural entities. Your mileage obviously varies, and if that works for you then great, you're welcome to it.

But Bolas is right, your anecdote is convincing only to the already convinced. To others, it smacks of post-hock rationalizing to help Dad escape his guilt.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[jakee 1,257]

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Would an atheist ever risk his/her life for the greater good of mankind? Or when it comes to the ultimate sacrifice it is simply a sacrifice they would not make for anyone? Just curios.

What a stupid question.

Do you honestly think that no atheist has ever risked or lost his or her life in protecting others?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,257]

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These statements humble me and help keep me on track...I believe all Christians should display such faith and humility...and show love and respect to those who disagree with our beliefs..for we have all been there.

It is to my shame that I say some of the things I say in my posts and my ungodly references that only display my fleshy ignorance and desires...
.
.
.
Who are you trying to impress?

It'd be best you stick that tongue back in lest it be cutt off...

Careful, now, you're straying dangerously close to Rhys territory...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

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These statements humble me and help keep me on track...I believe all Christians should display such faith and humility...and show love and respect to those who disagree with our beliefs..for we have all been there.

It is to my shame that I say some of the things I say in my posts and my ungodly references that only display my fleshy ignorance and desires...
.
.
.
Who are you trying to impress?

It'd be best you stick that tongue back in lest it be cutt off...

Careful, now, you're straying dangerously close to Rhys territory...

I believe that can be described as Leftyism.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,257]

... No.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,426]

>"I'm so thankful he took them and spared those two unconverted boys."

I am all for any such belief or rationalization that helps a grieving parent overcome such a devastating event. (Provided that that doesn't translate to his helping other Christians meet God in that way, of course.) Any such belief, whether it comes from a belief in Christ, Allah, Vishnu or even the power of the human spirit, can help people through troubled times.

[Bolas 5]

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>"I'm so thankful he took them and spared those two unconverted boys."

I am all for any such belief or rationalization that helps a grieving parent overcome such a devastating event. (Provided that that doesn't translate to his helping other Christians meet God in that way, of course.) Any such belief, whether it comes from a belief in Christ, Allah, Vishnu or even the power of the human spirit, can help people through troubled times.

The problem is they don't really overcome, it's just an excuse. The only way to truly do that is to face up to what they did.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[rhys 0]

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Careful, now, you're straying dangerously close to Rhys territory...

What's that? Straying away from peer pressure and bigotry, using rational thought and allowing others the interpret my feelings and exposing my true thoughts so you can have them scrutinised by others in order to be honest with myself?

You should give it a go sometime...

I would like to hear your explanation of what you mean by that.

I am trying to make myself more educated on the whole Islam scene at the mo. So I am refraining on commenting on this threads core points.

If anything it is indeed, interesting.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[turtlespeed 212]

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... No.

... Yes.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Coreece 190]

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Is there any possible event that would suffice to convince you that there is not a God directing everything according to His Will? I doubt it very much.

John 10:29:
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

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then what would it take to raise doubt?

I think all face doubt thoughout their Christian life, but there is always something in scripture that can comfort them...

I understand your point but scripture and that "personal revelation" you referred to is very powerful.

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But Bolas is right, your anecdote is convincing only to the already convinced.

I don't see anything wrong with that...

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To others, it smacks of post-hock rationalizing to help Dad escape his guilt.

That's fine, but ultimately evangelism is solely about explaining scripture...either you accept it or reject it. There is no need to try and convince anyone of anything because people don't have that power...If we did, we'd boast saying it was "I" and not God.

1 Corinthians 1:21-25:
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1 Corinthians 1:28-29:
God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

John 6:37:
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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These statements humble me and help keep me on track...I believe all Christians should display such faith and humility...and show love and respect to those who disagree with our beliefs..for we have all been there.

It is to my shame that I say some of the things I say in my posts and my ungodly references that only display my fleshy ignorance and desires...
.
.
.
Who are you trying to impress?

It'd be best you stick that tongue back in lest it be cutt off...

Careful, now, you're straying dangerously close to Rhys territory...

I had a feeling you were gonna comment on this...I thought it woulda been more along the lines of "it would be wise to heed to your own advice"

....and I probably would've agreed.

but c'mon, he basically created his own unconvincing argument, attributed it to me, called it unconvincing and stuck his tongue out at me... I was referring to the ""emoticon...I hate those stupid things! My relationship to them are similar to Happy Gilmore and the clown in the last hole of minature golf

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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>"I'm so thankful he took them and spared those two unconverted boys."

I am all for any such belief or rationalization that helps a grieving parent overcome such a devastating event. (Provided that that doesn't translate to his helping other Christians meet God in that way, of course.) Any such belief, whether it comes from a belief in Christ, Allah, Vishnu or even the power of the human spirit, can help people through troubled times.

The original question was about athiests risking their lives for others...

Bolas said it would be a selfless act for athiests and a selfish act for thiests.

you gave a side note that basically said athiests are more apt to survive becasue thiests believe there is a better place waiting for them.

I was basically saying that perhaps athiests survive because God still had yet to performed an act of saving grace.

These of course are all subjective comments...

The only objective comments on this matter were you listing instances where athiests did in fact risk their lives for others and my comment on how it has more to do with genetics and brain chemistry rather than religion.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Bolas 5]

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Bolas said it would be a selfless act for athiests and a selfish act for thiests.

What I said:

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Possibly but it would be a selfless sacrifice whereas a religious matyr may be convinced to do it for strictly selfish reasons.

Meaning it could be a selfish act for theists. Hopefully if someone is willing to die for a cause it's because they believe in it that deeply versus just thinking they will receive some afterlife reward.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.