Ketia0 0 #26 March 31, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I believe that Fred Phelps is under the influence of, if not in bondage to, a demonic spirit. That's a very practical excuse... Excuse for what? Blaming bad/anti-social behaviour on some mythical 'spirit' would be an excuse in my book too. He is not saying it as an excuse for what they are doing.. what they are doing is VERY wrong. Thank GOD they are not AG! We have presbeters that would have handled that... A true Christian would never have done something as stupid and absurd as that. Goes against true Christian doctrine! .. Who defines "true"? This is a really lame excuse used by Christians in general to excuse bad behavior by members of their faith. There's some pretty nasty behavior called for in the OT, but whenever anyone calls attention to it, we hear much the same excuse from Christians. True Christian... One who has a relationship with Christ. Who studies the Bible and lives a life that glorifies God... Christian=Christ like. I dont consider people who do absurd things members of the faith. The Bible says that you "will know them by the fruits of thier spirit" . OK, so YOU are "The Decider". WRONG! I never said I was the decider! The Bible has ways to tell. The Pastor or Deacon will be a better judge. But if i see something that does not line up with the Word of God, then it is my duty to talk to the person about that. To read with them, pray, and seek God's guidance."In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ketia0 0 #27 March 31, 2010 Oh and also.. Im awesome... we gatta agree on that! Why else would I be on a billboard! BTW, Was looking at some of the pics you posted of your "office" the other day. Absolutely amazing! Beautiful!! I hope I can travel one day and check that stuff out!! "In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #28 March 31, 2010 ========= Matthew 7 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. ========== >This also doesnt mean people can interpret the Bible any which way they >want. Thats why we have elders and decons, presbeters, and such. To help >with the understanding of the Bible, and to help grow in a relationship. Unfortunately there are a lot of different interpretations. Historically these have ranged from "love your neighbor" to "kill all the infidels." (You could even get that from the above passage if you were so inclined.) Which is why it is sometimes best to glean your own meaning from the Bible, even when the elders disagree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #29 March 31, 2010 Quote This is the heavy responsibility to having a First Amendment. Exactly! If people are unhappy with the results of the constitution they can lobby to have it changed. Other than that people need to recognize that this truly is the price of freedom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ketia0 0 #30 March 31, 2010 Quote========= Matthew 7 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. ========== >This also doesnt mean people can interpret the Bible any which way they >want. Thats why we have elders and decons, presbeters, and such. To help >with the understanding of the Bible, and to help grow in a relationship. Unfortunately there are a lot of different interpretations. Historically these have ranged from "love your neighbor" to "kill all the infidels." (You could even get that from the above passage if you were so inclined.) Which is why it is sometimes best to glean your own meaning from the Bible, even when the elders disagree. I dont see how someone could interpret that as kill your neighbor.. Some people are just morons! What the Assemblies of God, my denomination, practice, is a doctrine that has been upheld for a very long time. One that is Biblically accurate, and aggreed upon by the elders... Now, dont get me wrong. Im not saying that AG is better than any other denomination. Its just the one I like. In the end, if you truly have a relation ship with Christ, then you dont do really stupid stuff like this.. or if you mess up, you repent, and apologize... even if that means apologizing to something you dont agree with."In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #31 March 31, 2010 Perhaps some patriotic members of the gay community could engage in a little public tenderness in these folks presence. I'm sure a little hate crime activity shouldn't be too hard to provoke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ketia0 0 #32 March 31, 2010 Violence isnt the answer. I wish that the police could arrest them though on hate crimes.. That would be much better.. THen again, these are not the only ignorant fools out there... They are just a little bit more known. Teach your children love! "In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #33 March 31, 2010 I am not recommending violence. I am suggesting that anyone with that much hate in their soul should be fairly easy to provoke into violence. A gay couple standing right beside them necking ought to do it. Even a mild assault could be fairly construed as a hate crime. The hate these people have for gays is pretty obvious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #34 March 31, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I believe that Fred Phelps is under the influence of, if not in bondage to, a demonic spirit. That's a very practical excuse... Excuse for what? Blaming bad/anti-social behaviour on some mythical 'spirit' would be an excuse in my book too. He is not saying it as an excuse for what they are doing.. what they are doing is VERY wrong. Thank GOD they are not AG! We have presbeters that would have handled that... A true Christian would never have done something as stupid and absurd as that. Goes against true Christian doctrine! .. Who defines "true"? This is a really lame excuse used by Christians in general to excuse bad behavior by members of their faith. There's some pretty nasty behavior called for in the OT, but whenever anyone calls attention to it, we hear much the same excuse from Christians. True Christian... One who has a relationship with Christ. Who studies the Bible and lives a life that glorifies God... Christian=Christ like. I dont consider people who do absurd things members of the faith. The Bible says that you "will know them by the fruits of thier spirit" . OK, so YOU are "The Decider". WRONG! I never said I was the decider! The Bible has ways to tell. . You didn't come right out and say it, but your words in the previous post clearly show that you had decided on their status as "not true Christians".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #35 March 31, 2010 Quote This is a really lame excuse used by Christians in general to excuse bad behavior by members of their faith. What are you doing to support your party of choice in the dispute between Snyder and Phelps?Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbwing 0 #36 March 31, 2010 You'll never get the WBC to assault anyone. This has been their schtick for years. Phelps has taught his children well. They protest in the most outward manner possible in order to draw negative attention to themselves. They hope that local government will act to silence them, then they sue. Also, they hope someone will take a swing at them as well so they can sue them. She even mentions this in the original article. The money they recoup from this event will go to fund the church in other ways. All along in the history of WBC, this means that money will in essense pay the Phelps family. Sure they are despicable assholes, but thats the trade off for free speech. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fluidynamic 0 #37 March 31, 2010 I guess the members of this church just breezed right through all the passages of the bible talking about loving others despite their sins, and just skipped right to the good parts about hail fire and brimstone... this is absurd. Faith, hope, and love... but the greatest of these is love. "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." - Jesus Christ These people misrep Christ to such an extreme degree... I can't even imagine how many people they have turned off to knowing Christ. It's like some dude who really sucks at skateboarding and is super anal to everyone all the time telling you he's sponsored by Red Bull, I'm gonna assume Red Bull is a pretty lame company if that's all I see of it. But Red Bull is a super sik company, and Jesus is a super sik God... this is an absolute nightmare.Don't worry... I'll stay out of the incident reports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #38 March 31, 2010 >I dont see how someone could interpret that as kill your neighbor. "God has commanded that 'Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.' We are merely his humble gardeners." (Yes, that's a misinterpretation, but unfortunately the Bible is prone to those.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #39 March 31, 2010 Quote You didn't come right out and say it, but your words in the previous post clearly show that you had decided on their status as "not true Christians". Only God knows the heart of man. The judgement of who is true and who isn't comes when the body dies and the soul is presented before the throne. But, we sure as hell can judge the fruits of one's behavior.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #40 March 31, 2010 QuoteTrue Christian... One who has a relationship with Christ. Who studies the Bible and lives a life that glorifies God... Christian=Christ like. Those are TRULY rare!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #41 March 31, 2010 Bill O'Riely stated (last night on his TV show)he is writing the check for 16 grand to cover it should he have to pay in the end"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ketia0 0 #42 March 31, 2010 Quote Quote True Christian... One who has a relationship with Christ. Who studies the Bible and lives a life that glorifies God... Christian=Christ like. Those are TRULY rare!!!!! I know Its really saddening. I try my hardest though! "In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #43 March 31, 2010 QuoteQuoteI hate what the Phelps family and this abomination of a church does, but they must not be shut down. Without them freely showing their complete "bat-shit-f*cked-up-crazy-hatred" views, the rest of us would not know about them. By allowing them to continue, we have others that step up to the plate like the Patriot Guard. This thing is going to the Supreme Court, and when they rule in favor of the Phelps (as I believe they will), we, as decent patriots have each other. What do the Phelps have? This is the heavy responsibility to having a First Amendment. Surely the judge could have upheld the 1st Amendment by awarding the Phelpses, say, $1. [I just deleted my original response because I mis-read your post. I'll try again in another post, for continuity's sake.] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #44 March 31, 2010 I think you've got the latest verdict for the Phelps mixed up with the original verdict for the Snyders.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #45 March 31, 2010 Quote I think you've got the latest verdict for the Phelps mixed up with the original verdict for the Snyders. [never mind] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #46 March 31, 2010 We are a nation of laws and like it or not, the law is on dipshit's side. The case did clarify something for me though-At least in South Carolina, it would cost me thousands to sue the bastard but about $700 to whip his ass---I got $700You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #47 March 31, 2010 QuoteQuoteI think you've got the latest verdict for the Phelps mixed up with the original verdict for the Snyders. No, I don't. When Kallend said, "Surely the judge could have upheld the 1st Amendment by awarding the Phelpses, say, $1.", I presumed he was referring to the trial judge. But then you talk about adjusting the millions of dollars in damages. The millions of dollars were for the Snyders, not the Phelpses. It wouldn't be a case of reducing or enlarging the Jury's award, but of reversing their verdict.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #48 March 31, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteI think you've got the latest verdict for the Phelps mixed up with the original verdict for the Snyders. No, I don't. When Kallend said, "Surely the judge could have upheld the 1st Amendment by awarding the Phelpses, say, $1.", I presumed he was referring to the trial judge. But then you talk about adjusting the millions of dollars in damages. The millions of dollars were for the Snyders, not the Phelpses. It wouldn't be a case of reducing or enlarging the Jury's award, but of reversing their verdict. Crap. You're right. The Phelpses. I misunderestimated Kallend's post; he typed "Phelps", but my brain registered "Snyder". OK, let me go back, re-read it, and re-respond to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #49 March 31, 2010 Quote Quote I hate what the Phelps family and this abomination of a church does, but they must not be shut down. Without them freely showing their complete "bat-shit-f*cked-up-crazy-hatred" views, the rest of us would not know about them. By allowing them to continue, we have others that step up to the plate like the Patriot Guard. This thing is going to the Supreme Court, and when they rule in favor of the Phelps (as I believe they will), we, as decent patriots have each other. What do the Phelps have? This is the heavy responsibility to having a First Amendment. Surely the judge could have upheld the 1st Amendment by awarding the Phelpses, say, $1. OK, now that I've worked on my reading comprehension and re-read your post carefully this time : The short answer is: since the Snyders were the plaintiffs, and the Phelpses were the defendants, the only way to award compensatory damages to a defendant at trial is if (a) the defendant (Phelps) filed a counter-claim against the plaintiff (Snyder), and (b) the jury finds in favor of the defendants on the defendants' counter-claim at trial. As a matter of procedural law, there's simply no other way to award compensatory damages to a defendant in a lawsuit. Even if the judge had dismissed the case on First Amendment grounds instead of allowing the case to go to the jury, he probably would not legally have been able to award the Phelpses anything, except possibly a small amount of their trial expenses (although not their legal fees). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #50 March 31, 2010 Quote Quote Quote I hate what the Phelps family and this abomination of a church does, but they must not be shut down. Without them freely showing their complete "bat-shit-f*cked-up-crazy-hatred" views, the rest of us would not know about them. By allowing them to continue, we have others that step up to the plate like the Patriot Guard. This thing is going to the Supreme Court, and when they rule in favor of the Phelps (as I believe they will), we, as decent patriots have each other. What do the Phelps have? This is the heavy responsibility to having a First Amendment. Surely the judge could have upheld the 1st Amendment by awarding the Phelpses, say, $1. OK, now that I've worked on my reading comprehension and re-read your post carefully this time : The short answer is: since the Snyders were the plaintiffs, and the Phelpses were the defendants, the only way to award compensatory damages to a defendant at trial is if (a) the defendant (Phelps) filed a counter-claim against the plaintiff (Snyder), and (b) the jury finds in favor of the defendants on the defendants' counter-claim at trial. As a matter of procedural law, there's simply no other way to award compensatory damages to a defendant in a lawsuit. Even if the judge had dismissed the case on First Amendment grounds instead of allowing the case to go to the jury, he probably would not legally have been able to award the Phelpses anything, except possibly a small amount of their trial expenses (although not their legal fees). I thought the award that the Phelps were given was at the Appeal.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
