Miss Beverly Hills Thinks God Wants Gays Put to Death

[RonD1120 58]

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I wonder if you were involved in one of the faith-based organizations that got federal funding under the last (and maybe this) administration? Any organization that got those grants had to be careful to use the money only to deliver services, not to preach. Crossing that line would mean that federal tax dollars would be used to promote a religion, which is of course unconstitutional. You may disagree that it should be unconstitutional, but I think the separation of church and state is a master stroke of the Founding Fathers that has guaranteed religious freedom in this country, including the freedom to prefer Bronze Age mythology over science. Anyway them's the rules, if you take the federal grants you can't use the money to preach. Don't like the rules? Don't take the money.

Don

Absolutely, the rules were followed and the funding accepted. I did work for one faith-based organization that refused federal funds and relied on donations only. However, we you seek corporate funding you have to be cautious as well.

In a perfect world, all social services would be provided by individual churches, funded by their respective congregations. That ain't likely to happen anytime soon.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[popsjumper 2]

What he said:
"If you didn't do what they told you to do, you could be arrested and/or shot by police. Or worse. "

What you said:

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Yes. America is just like Nazi Germany. Congratulations; you've made the dumbest argument on the thread to date.

Sounds as though you have no clue that his statement is true.

Either that or, in your haste to extrapolate to across-the-board, you missed it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[jakee 1,259]

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In a perfect world, all social services would be provided by individual churches, funded by their respective congregations.

In a perfect world only the Christian faith would be allowed to provide social services?

When you start with that as your baseline, it's hardly a surprise that you imagine yourself being attacked.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[shropshire 0]

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The school is appealing.

Doesn't seem all that appealing to me. It appears to be staffed by (some) idiots.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Andy9o8 0]

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What he said:
"If you didn't do what they told you to do, you could be arrested and/or shot by police. Or worse. "

What you said:

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Yes. America is just like Nazi Germany. Congratulations; you've made the dumbest argument on the thread to date.

Sounds as though you have no clue that his statement is true.

Either that or, in your haste to extrapolate to across-the-board, you missed it.

What Airman also said in post 191 was: "Kinda like today's Democrat-controlled America." I'm pretty sure Bill was responding to that part (not to the part about Russia, China or Cuba).

[RonD1120 58]

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In a perfect world, all social services would be provided by individual churches, funded by their respective congregations.

In a perfect world only the Christian faith would be allowed to provide social services?

When you start with that as your baseline, it's hardly a surprise that you imagine yourself being attacked.

I did not specify any particular faith.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,259]

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In a perfect world, all social services would be provided by individual churches, funded by their respective congregations.

In a perfect world only the Christian faith would be allowed to provide social services?

When you start with that as your baseline, it's hardly a surprise that you imagine yourself being attacked.

I did not specify any particular faith.

Somehow I doubt that you were thinking of Muslim 'churches' or Jewish 'churches' or Hindu 'churches'.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 0]

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In a perfect world, all social services would be provided by individual churches, funded by their respective congregations.

In a perfect world only the Christian faith would be allowed to provide social services?

When you start with that as your baseline, it's hardly a surprise that you imagine yourself being attacked.

I did not specify any particular faith.

Thanks! I'm now 50 bucks richer, 'cause before you even posted it I bet myself 50 bucks you'd say exactly that. Anyhow:

In a perfect world only organizations predicated on belief in religion would be allowed to provide social services?

When you start with that as your baseline,.... etc., etc.

[billvon 2,434]

>What he said:

Adding the part that you deleted back in:

>Just like nazi Germany . . . Kinda like today's Democrat-controlled America.

Yep. Dumbest argument in the thread. If you don't think so, your rationalizations are the same used by those who loaded the ovens at Dachau.

(Nope, don't think that rose to the level of stupidity as the first one did. Anyone else?)

[Hjeada 0]

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If a lesbian wants to marry, she has that right. Simply find a guy who wants to marry her and go for it. Don't know what the point would be, but she is free to marry if she wants to. Nobody is trying to make this a crime.

Cheers,
Jon

The idea that a lesbian or a homosexual can't marry is crap. I am a Christian, and don't see what the big deal is...if "marriage" is supposedly a Christian institution (which seems to be the prevailing argument amongst those against this) then should agnostics, atheists, Muslims, etc not be allowed to marry? There is really no justifiable argument against same sex marriage. If two people are committed to each other, why should they not be afforded the same rights as a couple of opposite sexes (i.e. couple healthcare, visitation rights at hospitals, tax breaks, etc)?

Additionally, the idea that God wants anyone dead is narrow minded, Jesus Christ (whether you accept Him or not, completely your choice) was an incredible model for all of humanity to lead our lives by, he embraced love, compassion, and did not pass prejudice on people (he intermixed with the lowest of society at the time including tax collectors, shepards, and prostitutes). Regardless of your belief system, or lack of belief system, the model of Jesus Christ is a good one to try and lead your life by. Just my $0.02 and I'm sure I will get flamed for this...lol

Dudeist Skydiver #0511

[billvon 2,434]

>If two people are committed to each other, why should they not be
>afforded the same rights as a couple of opposite sexes . . .

Well, one reason (as demonstrated all too often recently) is that many anti-gay-rights politicians are closet homosexuals - and being caught can mean the end of their careers. Thus, to them, homosexuality is a real and persistent threat. The more rights gays have, the more accepted homosexuality will be, and the greater the temptation will be for them to do something that could destroy their lives.

Think of it as a recovering alcoholic who prefers to live where no liquor is sold. Imagine his response to a city ordinance that permits liquor to be sold in town; he would likely be against it. Why? It's not because he dislikes alcohol as a chemical. It's because he fears what _he_ will do when it is made available to him.

[Hjeada 0]

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>Well, one reason (as demonstrated all too often recently) is that many anti-gay-rights politicians are closet homosexuals - and being caught can mean the end of their careers. Thus, to them, homosexuality is a real and persistent threat. The more rights gays have, the more accepted homosexuality will be, and the greater the temptation will be for them to do something that could destroy their lives.

Think of it as a recovering alcoholic who prefers to live where no liquor is sold. Imagine his response to a city ordinance that permits liquor to be sold in town; he would likely be against it. Why? It's not because he dislikes alcohol as a chemical. It's because he fears what _he_ will do when it is made available to him.

While there is a bit of a leap in there, I see your point...again, though, I am looking for a valid reason, particularly from those in the crowd that are blatantly against gay marriage.

Dudeist Skydiver #0511

[kallend 1,647]

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If a lesbian wants to marry, she has that right. Simply find a guy who wants to marry her and go for it. Don't know what the point would be, but she is free to marry if she wants to. Nobody is trying to make this a crime.

Cheers,
Jon

The idea that a lesbian or a homosexual can't marry is crap. I am a Christian, and don't see what the big deal is...if "marriage" is supposedly a Christian institution (which seems to be the prevailing argument amongst those against this) then should agnostics, atheists, Muslims, etc not be allowed to marry? There is really no justifiable argument against same sex marriage. If two people are committed to each other, why should they not be afforded the same rights as a couple of opposite sexes (i.e. couple healthcare, visitation rights at hospitals, tax breaks, etc)?

Additionally, the idea that God wants anyone dead is narrow minded, Jesus Christ (whether you accept Him or not, completely your choice) was an incredible model for all of humanity to lead our lives by, he embraced love, compassion, and did not pass prejudice on people (he intermixed with the lowest of society at the time including tax collectors, shepards, and prostitutes). Regardless of your belief system, or lack of belief system, the model of Jesus Christ is a good one to try and lead your life by. Just my $0.02 and I'm sure I will get flamed for this...lol

Great post. Marriage, of course, considerably pre-dates Christianity.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Airman1270 0]

...I am looking for a valid reason, particularly from those in the crowd that are blatantly against gay marriage...
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Because marriage is, by its very definition, a union between a man and a woman. The whole concept of "gay marriage" is a left-wing political invention.

When legislatures and/or judges can order the sun to rise in the west, or water to flow uphill, they will have acquired the authority to redefine marriage.

Cheers,
Jon

[billvon 2,434]

>Because marriage is, by its very definition, a union between a man and a woman.

Yep. And back in the 50's it was between a man and a woman of the same race. We changed the definition then, even though the right wingers of the time predicted the end of the world. Glad we did.

>When legislatures and/or judges can order the sun to rise in the west, or
>water to flow uphill, they will have acquired the authority to redefine
>marriage.

They did in the 1950's, and did so even though most of the country was opposed to the idea. They have done so today in New Hampshire, Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, Vermont, and Washington, D.C. So apparently they do have the power - and have used it.

[Airman1270 0]

Then you're a queer...
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Um... I was hoping to keep this private, but it's becoming impossible, so...

I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

Cheers,
Jon

[shropshire 0]

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marriage i .vs. the sun to rise in the west, or water to flow uphill,

Now you're comparing apples and oranges..... Marriage is a manmade concept and the other two are physical.

and anyway, words change meaningv over time and There's nothing soley Christian about marriage.

Why would you sweet what other people do and call their bonding? It's not like it affects you at all?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kallend 1,647]

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>Because marriage is, by its very definition, a union between a man and a woman.

Yep. And back in the 50's it was between a man and a woman of the same race.

Marriage long pre-dates the laws of the racist south of the USA. Or even the USA.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Hjeada 0]

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Because marriage is, by its very definition, a union between a man and a woman.

So your primary argument against gay marriage is over the definition? So then it would be ok in your mind and idealology if it were called "Civil Union" instead? Definitions change overtime, and with culture, so your definition arguement is fleeting at best. I don't mean to incite here, just trying to gain an understanding of where the opposition is stemming from...if it is a matter of sin, in your opinion, that is the problem, then let me ask if you sin (and if so, what makes one sin more reprehensible than any other?)...

Dudeist Skydiver #0511

[Airman1270 0]

...Marriage is a manmade concept...
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NO. Marriage was invented by God. As was gravity. However, you raise a salient point. The reason we're even having this debate at all is because of the growing influence of secular humanists who abhor the very suggestion of God and will do anything they can (such as vote away their freedom by electing totalitarian Democrats) to eradicate Him from public memory.

God says homosexuality is wrong. He also says we should treat homosexuals with civility & respect. They, in turn, have an obligation to respect the normal social standard and keep their private behavior private.

If there is no God, there is no absolute moral standard. This makes it more difficult to condemn the punks who beat up a gay Wisconsin man, tied him to a fence, and left him to die.

If anyone wants to claim that the guys who did this sang in the church choir & regularly attended Bible study, go for it.

Cheers,
Jon

[ridestrong 1]

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That is Old Testament law. New Testament teaches forgiveness from sin..
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True. Except for some dietary restrictions, God does not declare something wrong in the OT, then later says it's okay in the NT. Jesus changed the way we are to deal with sin, but He didn't say the sin was okay.

Homosexuality is morally wrong, as is a bunch of other stuff. God doesn't hate gays any more than He hates people who drink too much, or gossip, or sell stolen property, or commit adultery, or downsize too aggressively, etc. We all stand on even ground at the foot of the cross.

Cheers,
Jon S.

That is only a sin here at dz.com... and primarily ridiculed by closet-aggressive-down-sizers (who are anti-aggressive downsizing.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[billvon 2,434]

>NO. Marriage was invented by God.

Uh, no, there are all sorts of marriages, and you don't need a God connection to get one. (Unless you go with the "God created everything" angle, in which case DZ.com and gay marriage was invented by God as well!)

> The reason we're even having this debate at all is because of
> the growing influence of secular humanists

Bzzt! Sorry, it's not unique to the evil horrible scary secular humanists.

The Rev. Canon J. Edwin Bacon Jr, Episcopal minister: "Being gay is a gift from God."

Bishop James Jones of Liverpool supports gay marriage.

=================
FOXNEWS.COM
Protestant Church Endorses Gay Marriage

Monday, July 04, 2005

ATLANTA — The United Church of Christ's rule-making body voted overwhelmingly Monday to approve a resolution that endorses same-sex marriage (search), making it the largest Christian denomination to do so.

The vote is not binding on individual churches, but could cause some churches to leave the fold.

Roughly 80 percent of the members of the church's General Synod voted to approve the resolution. They debated for about an hour before voting.

On Sunday, a committee of about 50 United Church of Christ (search) representatives gave nearly unanimous approval to the resolution, recommending that the General Synod approve it. It was supported by the UCC's president, John H. Thomas.
===================

>God says homosexuality is wrong.

He also says that working on Sunday and wearing cotton/polyester blends is wrong, too. But I bet you'd fight a law that banned you from doing that.

>They, in turn, have an obligation to respect the normal social
>standard and keep their private behavior private.

That's a bit hypocritical for someone who posts about the sort of sex he enjoys on a public forum. If you can do it, so can gays.

[jakee 1,259]

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NO. Marriage was invented by God. As was gravity. However, you raise a salient point. The reason we're even having this debate at all is because of the growing influence of secular humanists who abhor the very suggestion of God and will do anything they can (such as vote away their freedom by electing totalitarian Democrats) to eradicate Him from public memory.

If you don't even understand the debate, how can you possibly think you have the answer?

This issue, is not about eradicating God - that has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's about equality, plain and simple.

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God says homosexuality is wrong. He also says we should treat homosexuals with civility & respect. They, in turn, have an obligation to respect the normal social standard and keep their private behavior private.

You have absolutely no idea how disrespectful that is.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

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You have absolutely no idea how disrespectful that is.

Please show the respect inherent in accusing him of everything from insanity to drug abuse like has been done in this thread.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,259]

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You have absolutely no idea how disrespectful that is.

Please show the respect inherent in accusing him of everything from insanity to drug abuse like has been done in this thread.

Why should I? Neither I nor anyone else has claimed that is respectful.


(And he hasn't been "accused" of drug abuse, it's a statement of fact, one that he chose to bring into this domain. Do you want to tell him he's being disrespectful to himself?)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?