Airman1270 0 #26 February 28, 2010 Also, the bible says that we should execute women who have sex before marriage, and murder children that don't obey their parents... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ This is funny. You're responding to my very brief post, yet you totally missed what I said. Jesus changed the way we deal with sin. He did not say the sin was okay. For whatever reason, God did allow harsh punishment in the OT for some of the things you mentioned, but that is no longer applicable. In the meantime, adultery and disrespect toward parents remains wrong. Offering a suggestion or sharing information, even from the Bible, does not constitute "imposing" anything. The only religion being imposed in America today is secular humanism. This is being done in the form of numerous laws being passed to address problems caused by people who do not respect and/or have never been taught to value basic standards of morality taught in the Bible. We were a much freeer nation back in the days when these standards were universally respected and taught as part of school curricula. Name one nation, governed by atheistic philosopy, which has provided more freedom than America traditionally has offered. It didn't work for Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, China, Cambodia, Cuba, etc. but perhaps there really has been a free atheist-controlled society and I just don't know about it. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #27 February 28, 2010 Quote The left needs to completely ignore this. If they go after her they will give her the attention she is looking for. If the left goes after her the right will get behind her and elevate her status. She could become the next Sarah Palin. It is uncanny how correct you are! It is funny and sad at the same time."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #28 February 28, 2010 The Christian church invented the idea of universal education & literacy, and also the idea of hospitals. In the Middle Ages you had a class of people, ostensibly christian, who were the elite of society, and who were ultimately good at waging war. At least the Last of the "crusades" were a plot to get them out of Europe, so they wouldn't reak so much havoc in Europe. Relgion or Not, War is usually BULLSHIT. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #29 February 28, 2010 Quote Also, the bible says that we should execute women who have sex before marriage, and murder children that don't obey their parents... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ This is funny. You're responding to my very brief post, yet you totally missed what I said. Jesus changed the way we deal with sin. He did not say the sin was okay. For whatever reason, God did allow harsh punishment in the OT for some of the things you mentioned, but that is no longer applicable. In the meantime, adultery and disrespect toward parents remains wrong. Funny how an omniscient and omnipresent god can change his mind like that. It's almost as if people were putting the ideas in his head. Oh wait, they were!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #30 February 28, 2010 QuoteThat is Old Testament law. New Testament teaches forgiveness from sin. Nice get out of jail free card, if the old testament is suppased by the new testament then why not just bin it and have a new testament touchy feely bible?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #31 February 28, 2010 QuoteQuoteThat is Old Testament law. New Testament teaches forgiveness from sin. Nice get out of jail free card, if the old testament is suppased by the new testament then why not just bin it and have a new testament touchy feely bible? The answer to this question would be an hour long description. This is the problem with discussing religion on an internet forum. Spiritual beliefs are usually very personal and are arrived at over years of reading, reflection, and personal experience. On internet forums, it's like you're expected to sum all that up in a few lines. Atheists can just say "They're ain't no god!" and leave it at that. Internet forums are fine for posting simple statements and slogans, but it's pretty clear that they're not good for transmitting spiritual beliefs from one person to another. For this reason I sometimes wonder why we bother trying to argue about spirituality/religion at all on the Internet. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #32 February 28, 2010 So, if the OT is no longer relevant why oh why is it still preached or even included in the Bible? The truth is, that it's not the word of some fictional god but of men and their message has been superceeded by the words ofa different set of men.. so that they can project their message and power. It really is that simple. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #33 February 28, 2010 Quote It really is that simple. Why do people use this phrase after stating their opinion? It seems to be most commonly used after talking about something which is in fact NOT simple. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 129 #34 February 28, 2010 I would expect nothing less from "Miss Beverly Hills" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 129 #35 March 1, 2010 QuoteThis is the problem with discussing religion on an internet forum. Spiritual beliefs are usually very personal and are arrived at over years of reading, reflection, and personal experience. If it is so 'personal', then why are there churches with millions of members? Religion is GLOBAL, not personal. and because it is global, us atheists, also global, disagree with you because you daily try and pump it into our lives. We are not interested. If it is so 'personal', then you should be more than happy to NOT discuss it in public, on forums, or otherwise. Just the way i would like to see it. Just like anal sex - I don't like it, I am not interested in whether or not you like it, but if you want to do it in your own bedroom, that is fine by me - but I am not interested in hearing about it...... Keep it out of my government, keep it out of my life, don't talk about it - 'cause its nothing but a long story that insults my intelligence..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #36 March 1, 2010 QuoteQuoteThis is the problem with discussing religion on an internet forum. Spiritual beliefs are usually very personal and are arrived at over years of reading, reflection, and personal experience. If it is so 'personal', then why are there churches with millions of members? Religion is GLOBAL, not personal. and because it is global, us atheists, also global, disagree with you because you daily try and pump it into our lives. We are not interested. If it is so 'personal', then you should be more than happy to NOT discuss it in public, on forums, or otherwise. Just the way i would like to see it. Just like anal sex - I don't like it, I am not interested in whether or not you like it, but if you want to do it in your own bedroom, that is fine by me - but I am not interested in hearing about it...... Keep it out of my government, keep it out of my life, don't talk about it - 'cause its nothing but a long story that insults my intelligence..... Wow. Kettle, meet pot. Tell you what. Go through Speakers Corner and count how many angry atheists we have denouncing religion, and how many angry religious people we have denouncing atheism. The angry atheists LOUDLY proclaiming atheism & denouncing religion far outnumber the believers who are pushing their religion. So why is it OK for atheists to proclaim their atheism, but not OK for the religious? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #37 March 1, 2010 Quotewhy is it OK for atheists to proclaim their atheism, but not OK for the religious? Simple: if the religious would simply STFU, the atheists would simply be...people. Remove the annoying stimulus, you remove the reaction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #38 March 1, 2010 Right. so it's OK for your team to compete, just not the other team. Yep, that sounds like Speakers Corner. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #39 March 1, 2010 Quote Right. so it's OK for your team to compete, just not the other team. Yep, that sounds like Speakers Corner. Yup, you've completely twisted the meaning of my post. Or maybe just had "trouble" understanding it. Either way, sounds like Speaker's Corner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #40 March 1, 2010 Look at Speakers Corner. Your statement began, "If the religious would just STFU.." You claim the religious are the instigators. Yet look at all the atheists' posts in Speakers Corner. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #41 March 1, 2010 QuoteThe answer to this question would be an hour long description. This is the problem with discussing religion on an internet forum. Spiritual beliefs are usually very personal and are arrived at over years of reading, reflection, and personal experience. The question was directed to a very fundamentalist poster about the bible. To a fundamentalist, interpretation of the bible is not a personal thing, there is just the right way and lots of wrong ways to read it. So, to said fundamentalist, there must be a direct answer to the question. QuoteFor this reason I sometimes wonder why we bother trying to argue about spirituality/religion at all on the Internet. Because fundamentalists are funny.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #42 March 1, 2010 QuoteTell you what. Go through Speakers Corner and count how many angry atheists we have denouncing religion, and how many angry religious people we have denouncing atheism. The angry atheists LOUDLY proclaiming atheism & denouncing religion far outnumber the believers who are pushing their religion. So says someone who hasn't actually counted. QuoteSo why is it OK for atheists to proclaim their atheism, but not OK for the religious? Are you kidding? Even supposing you're right about the breakdown of this forum, take a look at the world around you. Which side has the TV stations, the radio stations, the vast political power base?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #43 March 1, 2010 Quote You claim the religious are the instigators. Yet look at all the atheists' posts in Speakers Corner. Yep, let's look. Let's look at this very thread. Crazy religious bimbo says god wants to kill gays. Thread is started about that. Discussion clearly instigated by religious nut-jobbery.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 129 #44 March 1, 2010 You are the one that said it was 'personal', not me. I argue that it is everything BUT personal. If you are 'loud', I am allowed to be as well. Tell you what, if you (the religious zealots) stop talking about religion in your everyday life then I will stop talking about it as well. Deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #45 March 1, 2010 Quote Homosexuality is morally wrong, as is a bunch of other stuff. God doesn't hate gays any more than He hates.... In my religion, declaring a large group of wonderful people as being members of a "morally wrong" group is morally wrong. (P.S. My religion is much less followed than christianity, in fact, I know of only one follower, (me), but since you announced your beliefs in the tone of 'fact', I will state my beliefs as facts too.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #46 March 1, 2010 QuoteJust the way i would like to see it. Just like anal sex - I don't like it, I am not interested in whether or not you like it, but if you want to do it in your own bedroom, that is fine by me - but I am not interested in hearing about it...... Pssst, I was not interested in how you felt about it either... But given the choice, I'd rather talk about religion. I think I'm a Pagan.But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #47 March 1, 2010 Funny how an omniscient and omnipresent god can change his mind like that... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ It wasn't about "changing His mind." There's much you misunderstand. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #48 March 1, 2010 ...So, if the OT is no longer relevant why oh why is it still preached or even included in the Bible?... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ It is still relevant. Who said it wasn't? Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #49 March 1, 2010 ...In my religion, declaring a large group of wonderful people as being members of a "morally wrong" group is morally wrong.... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ The Judeo-Christian tradition recognizes the Bible as inspired by God. Therefore, if the Bible says homosexuality is morally wrong, that means that God says it is, not some caveman. This is why the Bible is recognized as something of an authority on the subject. If you do not acknowledge Biblical authority, it is understood that you will not be persuaded by any argument that begins with "The Bible says..." My comments, and similar ones offered by others, are intended to facilitate communication so you will better understand this viewpoint regardless of whether you agree. The same Bible that declares queer sex wrong also emplores us to treat people with respect, etc. regardless of whether they personally partake in queer sex. Those who do can recipirocate this respect by keeping their personal lives to themselves and not continually looking for ways to bring it to our attention. Keep my nose out of your bedroom. Many "wonderful people" also engage in immoral straight sex (I did once,) use foul language, gossip, drink too much, use illegal drugs, mistreat people on occasion (usually not on purpose,) say stupid things in anger, cheat on the job, even shoplift or engage in other petty crime. We can treat these people with compassion & respect, while still holding to the standard that their behavior was wrong. The alternative is to be hard-ass about it or ditch the moral standard altogether and tell them what they're doing is okay and that anyone who disagrees is a bigot. Y'know I've never understood this hostility to "fundamentalism" The word simply means basic or essential. Would you fly with a pilot who did not respect the fundamentals of powered flight? Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #50 March 1, 2010 QuoteThe left needs to completely ignore this. If they go after her they will give her the attention she is looking for. If the left goes after her the right will get behind her and elevate her status. She could become the next Sarah Palin. Yeah yeah, I know that my posting this is going against my own advice :) This is not the view of THE right, just of people who are very far to the right."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
