Bolas 5 #76 January 31, 2010 QuoteQuoteForced donations by taxpayers through gov't programs OTOH is what I have a problem with. having said that, then I guess you will forfeit your social security when you turn 65? And panhandle on the streets for those 'donations' that you speak of? If government is not there to help its own people, then what is it's purpose perhaps? "The general welfare of the people" I think it said..... I and the companies I worked for paid into it so I should at least get that back. However I'm planning for retirement as if I won't get a dime of Social Security becuase that's also very possible too. My definition of government is one that helps people help themselves. Government social programs should be run like a business and either be fully self sufficient (loans) or show that the money spent on them enabled enough people to become taxpayers and contributors to justify the expense. IE: X social program total costs (administration, funds distributed, education, etc.) was $400 million/year. $100 million was paid back in loans and 10000 people were able to to get jobs paying $30,000 or more. The program shows to be paying for itself. Edited to add: "Lost causes" need to be the domain of charities, not government.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #77 January 31, 2010 Quote People should help people. Through donating items, money, time, etc. This only works in abstract world. If you try to implement it in real world, you'll quickly find out that the number of people who would like to GET help is larger than the number who would like to PROVIDE help.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #78 January 31, 2010 QuoteQuote People should help people. Through donating items, money, time, etc. This only works in abstract world. It works quite well in the real world, and has for many many years. Quote If you try to implement it in real world, you'll quickly find out that the number of people who would like to GET help is larger than the number who would like to PROVIDE help. That applies to welfare, as well.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #79 January 31, 2010 Quote I and the companies I worked for paid into it so I should at least get that back. However I'm planning for retirement as if I won't get a dime of Social Security becuase that's also very possible too. My definition of government is one that helps people help themselves. Government social programs should be run like a business and either be fully self sufficient (loans) or show that the money spent on them enabled enough people to become taxpayers and contributors to justify the expense. IE: X social program total costs (administration, funds distributed, education, etc.) was $400 million/year. $100 million was paid back in loans and 10000 people were able to to get jobs paying $30,000 or more. The program shows to be paying for itself. Edited to add: "Lost causes" need to be the domain of charities, not government. Based on my experience, I'd say you have the concept parameters correct. When I came out of the depths of alcoholism and substance abuse I sought support through Christian churches and the effort was successful. I am approaching 27 years of sobriety. When I tried to help others by working in social services for SA/MH I became part of an environment where the goal is funding not treatment. There was a period of time, ending around 1998, where a citizen could receive Social Security Disability Income if declared a victim of chemical dependence and/or mental illness. That individual then became eligible for Medicare benefits. Guess who benefited the most from that philosophy? That's right, the doctors who made the diagnoses and prescribed the treatment and the treatment providers. At the end, the all wise government decided that the treatment providers should be monitored and evaluated by insurance companies to justify the federal dollar expenditure. In my programs it was the Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Florida out of Jacksonville. Now in addition to a contract fee from the feds they received a percentage bonus of the Medicare dollars not spent. Guess who benefited most from this regulation? That's right, BC/BS of FL. Where were the clients and patients? Doing what welfare people know how to do best. They are born into the system, they learn how to survive within the system, and they die in the system. Every once in awhile someone breaks out and they become the poster child for the program. Who benefits from this system? That's right, politicians and bureaucrats.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #80 January 31, 2010 QuoteQuote Sounds to me like it was your personal failure, and you have simply convinced yourself that the blame lies elsewhere. No, I accept personal responsibility for my failures as the result of making bad lifestyle choices. Bottom line for me is the famous Regan quote, "Government is not the answer to the problem. It is the problem." So you are an anarchist, then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #81 January 31, 2010 Quote Quote Forced donations by taxpayers through gov't programs OTOH is what I have a problem with. having said that, then I guess you will forfeit your social security when you turn 65? Really? Social Security is now welfare? Try again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #82 January 31, 2010 QuoteReally? Social Security is now welfare? Try again. no it is not welfare, but it is a 'forced donation by taxpayers through gov't programs' which the original poster had an objection to I guess you missed that part. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #83 January 31, 2010 Quote So you are an anarchist, then? No, I consider myself a conservative in ideology. Closer to Libertarian in the voting booth. I am a registered Independent in FL. I was a registered Republican until around 2006. Anarchy is no government at all. I can't even imagine accusing someone of desiring that state.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #84 January 31, 2010 Quote Quote People should help people. Through donating items, money, time, etc. This only works in abstract world. If you try to implement it in real world, you'll quickly find out that the number of people who would like to GET help is larger than the number who would like to PROVIDE help. Like to get and need are two different things. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #85 January 31, 2010 QuoteQuote So you are an anarchist, then? No, I consider myself a conservative in ideology. Closer to Libertarian in the voting booth. I am a registered Independent in FL. I was a registered Republican until around 2006. Anarchy is no government at all. I can't even imagine accusing someone of desiring that state. An archos (Greek): No ruler. A true democracy would have no ruler.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #86 January 31, 2010 Quote It works quite well in the real world, and has for many many years. Quite well, you say? You mean, a black person, a non-Christian person, or a separated woman were able to get the same amount of needed help as they can now? You remember why Social Security and other programs were established? Quote That applies to welfare, as well. Indeed, and that is the problem. However there is little which could be done on a country level.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #87 February 2, 2010 QuoteHow would you deal with a mother that smokes pot (grows her own so it doesn't cost anything) but is otherwise a decent mother? Get her stoned and spank her like a rented mule. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
