Supreme Court Removes Limits on Corporate, Labor Donations to Campaigns

[quade 3]

I absolutely believe in free speech for PEOPLE.

Corporations aren't people.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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I absolutely believe in free speech for PEOPLE.

Corporations aren't people.

see, I keep it simple, without the need for qualifications. I believe in free speech.

You haven't really given me a reason why the NRA shouldn't have free speech, you just try to claim it wasn't an issue. Nor have you shown how big corps didn't have it before.

Fear that something bad might happen is the worst excuse to restrict speech.

[quade 3]

When will you get it through your skull I really don't give a flying fuck about the NRA? I don't see that as being the biggest issue. I don't think the NRA has ever really had an issue and had difficulty owning politicians, but at least that and the issues surrounding it are mostly within our own borders. There are MUCH bigger issue at stake here than the NRA. They are ants in size compared to what I'm talking about.

What I DO see as being an issue is involvement from outside the US.

In the age of multinationalism, there are a few huge companies that can easily manipulate everything in the US with this recent ruling. I'm not sure about you, but I don't think it's healthy for our government to fight proxy wars for other countries. I don't think it's right for our politicians to be beholding to multinational companies that can manipulate our markets for their profit.

This ruling sets the stage to fuck us over pretty bad.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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This ruling sets the stage to fuck us over pretty bad.

You may be correct. But Hollywood has also fucked over the country.

Where does Barack get his money?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[quade 3]

Let me suggest to you something that will probably blow your mind . . . "Hollywood" is roughly the same in its power base as the rest of the country. The working stiffs are split about 50/50 Democrat and Republican. The people that actually control the studios are by far more Republican than not. They're businessmen, they know what side their bread is buttered on. The union bosses, Democrat, sure, who'd of thunk it? The stars . . . again, about a 50/50 split -- seriously. Ask yourself what Reagan was. What do you think Arnold is?

Now, are these Republicans in power the same kind of ultra right wing types you find in other parts of the country? No, but they still generally vote along party lines.

Let me suggest to you that you have no clue what "Hollywood" is made of politically.

Have you ever worked in the business? No? I didn't think so.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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What do you think Arnold is?

Austrian? How about married to royalty?
(you know the Kennedy clan).

BTW ... I know democracy does not really exist in the USA. The USA is a perverse monarchy disguised as a democracy. We know there is no little difference between the two parties and this whole "corporate funding" issue is not as big of a deal as it is made out to be. There is a small group of elitist families who control the USA and they are all related to each other as well as related to their family in Hollywood.

as an example:

- Richard Nixon and Jimmy Carter were 6th cousins
- George W Bush and Barack Obama are 10th cousins

do you get the picture you do I need to illustrate more.

I don't have to work in Hollywood to know what is going on there.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[kelpdiver 2]

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When will you get it through your skull I really don't give a flying fuck about the NRA?

Then why continue to engage? It only continues to confirm that you don't give a flying fuck about speech. Just like the former FSMers in the Bay Area that try to keep Israelis (or other controversial types) from speaking at Cal. 'Free speech, unless we don't like it.'

[quade 3]

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When will you get it through your skull I really don't give a flying fuck about the NRA?

Then why continue to engage?

I'm not the one harping on the NRA issues. I merely pointed out that they are, in fact, a corporation when another person had asked the question of how they were a corporation. They're absolutely a corporation. No question.

Do I care that the NRA will take over the country? No. Please point out in this thread where I've been particularly concerned about the NRAs involvement? Can't find any? Well, there ya go.

Do I care that a multi-national corporation with close ties to a particular government might attempt to manipulate the US? Absolutely. I've stated so several times in this thread.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[idrankwhat 0]

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BTW ... I know democracy does not really exist in the USA. The USA is a perverse monarchy disguised as a democracy.

Actually it's a plutocracy. Which is why the bigger picture that quade refers to has merit. The oligarchy that you're leaning towards is certainly relevant but it's second in command to the power of wealth.

[Ron 7]

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Unless Much Lamebarf comes out against this.. it aint gonna happen amoung the Teabagging Party of NO

Funny... you have:

1. Called me a teabagger.
2. Claimed I listen to Rush.

Yet I came out against this....... How do you reconcile that?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

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In the age of multinationalism, there are a few huge companies that can easily manipulate everything in the US with this recent ruling.

this is first decent argument I've heard from this side of the coin

the Bill of Rights governs the rights of the citizens, and a corporation that represents multinational rights give speech (what an abused term) by proxy to non-citizens - thus diluting the speech of citizens - which takes from our rights as citizens - in essence, a policy that limits our right to speech

much like we are not obligated to give miranda rights, gun ownership rights, voting, etc to non-citizens, speech also applies

I have think on this angle

thanks

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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I absolutely believe in free speech for PEOPLE.

Corporations aren't people.

I absolutely believe the US government cannot limit free speech for US citizens and organizations/corporations/clubs of US citizens

Organizations/Corporations/Clubs that represent non-citizens, even fractionally, cannot exercise free speech solely on the behalf of US citizens due to their member content

Edit: Our biggest and best form of Speech, is voting.
If a non-citizen illegally gets a vote counted for Candidate A - it is DIRECTLY disenfranchising every single citizen that voted for Candidate B, C, D, etc

I think this can be an analogy (diluted, but still applicable) to general speech

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

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In the age of multinationalism, there are a few huge companies that can easily manipulate everything in the US with this recent ruling.

this is first decent argument I've heard from this side of the coin

the Bill of Rights governs the rights of the citizens, and a corporation that represents multinational rights give speech by proxy (what an abused term) to non-citizens - thus diluting the speech of citizens - which takes from our rights as citizens - in essence, a policy that limits our right to speech

much like we are not obligated to give miranda rights, gun ownership rights, voting, etc to non-citizens, speech also applies

I have think on this angle

thanks

Posts 5, 22, 28, were the first three to address the point. But admittedly, you summarized the concept nicely.[tequila]

[rehmwa 2]

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Posts 5, 22, 28, were the first three to address the point. But admittedly, you summarized the concept nicely.[tequila]

5 was so glib, I just rolled past it - but nicely said (best of all of them really)

22 started off emotionally, so I usually just pass over the posts that bash someone or start off with profanity - but it made the point really well.

28 - sorry I was in skimming mode and just missed it

The last one had it in a single sentence I caught as I was about to blow it off too as just another angry post/pissing contest contribution - diamond in the rough so to speak

however - this slant is interesting, it will conflict with consistency on many here concerning miranda rights and voting rights which many on either side of this particular argument vehemently argue those points in the other direction....it'll be more interesting to see who's is really consistent vs the others for those that take this point as a decent argument. Much more interesting than the subject topic -

certainly one can argue right vs wrong on this specific case, but the neat thing about speech, is that it's pretty robust and corps/clubs/orgs having or not having equivalent speech as individuals won't really hurt or help much in the long run. But it will make interesting political hay for politicians maybe.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,276]

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much like we are not obligated to give miranda rights...to non-citizens

Are you saying that due process of law does not apply to non-citizens?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Amazon 7]

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What do you think Arnold is?

Austrian? How about married to royalty?
(you know the Kennedy clan).

BTW ... I know democracy does not really exist in the USA. The USA is a perverse monarchy disguised as a democracy. We know there is no little difference between the two parties and this whole "corporate funding" issue is not as big of a deal as it is made out to be. There is a small group of elitist families who control the USA and they are all related to each other as well as related to their family in Hollywood.

as an example:

- Richard Nixon and Jimmy Carter were 6th cousins
- George W Bush and Barack Obama are 10th cousins

do you get the picture you do I need to illustrate more.

I don't have to work in Hollywood to know what is going on there.

Yeah GW is my 10th cousin too... every family has to have a black sheep that keeps fucking up everything he touches.

Past performance should have been indicative of expected performance... but too many people in this country are GOAT FUCK STUPID.. and expected a better performance based on what FAUX News and Rush Lamebrain were selling

[rehmwa 2]

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Do I care that a multi-national corporation with close ties to a particular government might attempt to manipulate the US? Absolutely.

So this isn't about freedom of speech, but rather about mass political advertising and how that may have a bias effect on POWER.

assumptions
- people really give a crap and respond to advertising (yeah, many are fickle that way, many also don't give a crap about what's in the media any more and make up our own minds, many are pawns and will join movements - real or contrived by corps in this way) seems a good assumption - but without directly political advertising, there is still corporate/indirect advertising, leveraging unions and clubs which you seem to exclude from this argument as different category, etc - so there are work arounds for the multi nats

- that politicians can be bought via contributions that's a case basis, but a good assumption too. Though, I don't trust pols to make policy on their bribes either - their self-interest motivation is so crooked and so fickle - that I can see any one of them completely dumping even their biggest contributor for their own advancement

- that multinats will gain more influence if they can hammer the advertising using their vast resources I'm less sold on this, they already have a huge influence on gov and politics, doubt this will increase what's a pretty engorged situation

what else?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

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Unless Much Lamebarf comes out against this.. it aint gonna happen amoung the Teabagging Party of NO

Funny... you have:

1. Called me a teabagger.
2. Claimed I listen to Rush.

Yet I came out against this....... How do you reconcile that?

Gee because it matches what you type????

Funni dat

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

In the age of multinationalism, there are a few huge companies that can easily manipulate everything in the US with this recent ruling.

this is first decent argument I've heard from this side of the coin

the Bill of Rights governs the rights of the citizens, and a corporation that represents multinational rights give speech (what an abused term) by proxy to non-citizens - thus diluting the speech of citizens - which takes from our rights as citizens - in essence, a policy that limits our right to speech

much like we are not obligated to give miranda rights, gun ownership rights, voting, etc to non-citizens, speech also applies

I have think on this angle

thanks

Its interesting that so many conservatives who hate the UN and the New World Order and all it stands for with the erosion of American preeminence.... yet will support this terd of a ruling.. that actually puts teeth into allowing the multinationals to control this country to more of an extent than they ever have before.

[rehmwa 2]

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much like we are not obligated to give miranda rights...to non-citizens

Are you saying that due process of law does not apply to non-citizens?

I'm saying the Bill of Rights applies to rights that citizens have that cannot be overcome by the government. non-citizens are not part of that contract

ask a lawyer your question, it's not something I'm up to speed on. I would say 'no' it's not a right to be protected under the B.O.R., but it's likely a good idea for other reasons.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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Its interesting that so many conservatives who hate the UN and the New World Order and all it stands for with the erosion of American preeminence.... yet will support this terd of a ruling.. that actually puts teeth into allowing the multinationals to control this country to more of an extent than they ever have before.

What's this: "UN and the New World Order and all it stands for "?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

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Quote

Its interesting that so many conservatives who hate the UN and the New World Order and all it stands for with the erosion of American preeminence.... yet will support this terd of a ruling.. that actually puts teeth into allowing the multinationals to control this country to more of an extent than they ever have before.

What's this: "UN and the New World Order and all it stands for "?

The one world government so many on the right are afraid of.


The same people who believe that there will be UN troops patrolling our streets to enforce compliance.

The erosion of our rights as americans.. OOOPS.. already done with the Patriot Act.

[Ron 7]

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Gee because it matches what you type????

But YOU just typed "Unless Much Lamebarf comes out against this.. it aint gonna happen amoung the Teabagging Party of NO"

So once again, how do you reconcile that? It seems you are incorrect in your assumptions yet again.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Amazon 7]

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Quote

Gee because it matches what you type????

But YOU just typed "Unless Much Lamebarf comes out against this.. it aint gonna happen amoung the Teabagging Party of NO"

So once again, how do you reconcile that? It seems you are incorrect in your assumptions yet again.

Well since it appears he does much of the thinking for conservatives... I await his edict.. and then see how many PARROTS we have here in SC the next day


Polly wanna cracker?????

[rehmwa 2]

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The one world government so many on the right are afraid of.

1 - suspect many on all sides would be afraid of this
2 - seems the UN is dominated by middle east countries and the "Big5" (is it still 5? or 6?)

do you want that?

many are very disaffected with our national government - would moving to an even bigger government really make it all better? even fractionally?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants