kallend 1,679
maadmax 0
And that's what makes Christianity so hard to believe. The Bible can be interpreted so many different ways that there is no way to know what the correct interpretation is.
That is probably true if you are an academic. But if your are a miserable sinner and hopelessly lost like me. You know what you need to find, and you damn well know it when you find it, irreguardless of how you interpret it.
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Interesting point. I wonder if people believed half as much in obeying the laws mentioned in the Bible as they do in adhering to those from the Driver's Handbook ,if there would still so much strife in the world?
I'm afraid you missed the point. The purpose of both the Bible and the Driver Handbook is to inform the general population about what the rules are - not to enforce compliance. And from the Driver Handbook it's pretty obvious what the rules are, and those running red lights or driving drunk clearly understand that what they do is against the rules.
From the Bible it's not clear what the exact rules are. This is the reason there are multiple different branches of Christianity, which interpret the Bible differently. All of them consider their own interpretation the only true one, which implicitly means that any other interpretation is false. If you look for example on Catholics and Jehova Witness, you'd find their interpretation of what IS the proper way to show your acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior is very different among different Christians.
Edit: according to World Christian Encyclopedia (chapter 1, "Global Overview", there are 33,820 distinct Christians denominations across the world.
This is why I'm saying the Bible as a guidance is a complete piece of crap.
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
maadmax 0
I'm afraid you missed the point. The purpose of both the Bible and the Driver Handbook is to set up the rules, not to enforce compliance. And from the Driver Handbook it's pretty obvious what the rules are, and those running red lights or driving drunk clearly understand that what they do is against the rules.
From the Bible it's not clear what the exact rules are. This is the reason there are multiple different branches of Christianity, which interpret the Bible differently. All of them consider their own interpretation the only true one, which implicitly means that any other interpretation is false. If you look for example on Catholics and Jehova Witness, you'd find their interpretation of what IS the proper way to show your acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior is very different among different Christians.
This is why I'm saying the Bible as a guidance is a complete piece of crap.
From the Bible it's not clear what the exact rules are. This is the reason there are multiple different branches of Christianity, which interpret the Bible differently. All of them consider their own interpretation the only true one, which implicitly means that any other interpretation is false. If you look for example on Catholics and Jehova Witness, you'd find their interpretation of what IS the proper way to show your acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior is very different among different Christians.
This is why I'm saying the Bible as a guidance is a complete piece of crap.
It is really not that hard. You can start with two simple rules and if you never progress from there you will still be way ahead.
#1 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all with all your soul, and with all of your mind.
#2 Love your neighbor as yourself.
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It is really not that hard. You can start with two simple rules and if you never progress from there you will still be way ahead.
No, I want to see the full set of rules, as I might find rule #N unacceptable. Then it would make no sense to me to start at all.
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#1 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all with all your soul, and with all of your mind.
#2 Love your neighbor as yourself.
You probably didn't understand. I do not need your interpretation of what the rules are. You're just a gullible imperfect human which could be deceived or tricked, and therefore your interpretation may be wrong. Why would the rules set up by allegedly omnipotent and perfect God require human interpretation? Why couldn't your God do better job than DMV?
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
kallend 1,679
QuoteQuote
It is really not that hard. You can start with two simple rules and if you never progress from there you will still be way ahead.
No, I want to see the full set of rules, as I might find rule #N unacceptable. Then it would make no sense to me to start at all.Quote
#1 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all with all your soul, and with all of your mind.
#2 Love your neighbor as yourself.
You probably didn't understand. I do not need your interpretation of what the rules are. You're just a gullible imperfect human which could be deceived or tricked, and therefore your interpretation may be wrong. Why would the rules set up by allegedly omnipotent and perfect God require human interpretation? Why couldn't your God do better job than DMV?
Well, this "God" is the epitome of big government - the biggest of all - and we all know how incompetent big government is.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
beowulf 1
Quote
And that's what makes Christianity so hard to believe. The Bible can be interpreted so many different ways that there is no way to know what the correct interpretation is.
That is probably true if you are an academic. But if your are a miserable sinner and hopelessly lost like me. You know what you need to find, and you damn well know it when you find it, irreguardless of how you interpret it.
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I am sorry, but you don't "know what you need to find". You believe you know what you are a looking and you believe you have found it. But you have no objective evidence to back any of your findings. So you have no way to know if you are just imagining your beliefs.
Your biggest problem is you begin with a belief and then look for and find evidence to support it and throw away or discard anything that doesn't fit. You have lost objectivity. Your emotions drive you to believing in your god.
riddler 0
QuoteLook on the Driver's Handbook,
Difference is that the government expects people to read the Driver's Handbook. The Judeo-Christian leadership doesn't really want people reading the Bible. They want to quote it and hope you just listen to their interpretation. Anyone that actually reads it is going to have issues with it - a LOT of issues - and that act may shake the faith of the reader.
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD
Ron 7
Quoteand we all know how incompetent big government is.
Man, if I thought you REALLY thought that way
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
"You dont understand when I speak to you of earthly things, how then could you understand if I speak to you of heavenly things"? Not all are meant to understand, only those who can hear with their own ears.
Is Jesus the only possible way to God? This question has been a stumbling stone for generations, but for the God I know, nothing is impossible. So, stumble on that if you must, or just stand on the rock and keep running. Also "God is the savior of all man, but especially of those who believe", and the wisdom (The word, the truth) that was with God in the beginning appeared as flesh through Christ. That means that the wisdom and power of salvation (confidence with the spirit of God) has been in the world from the beginning (just hadnt yet appeared in flesh), and therefore has been saving from the beginning. Even without the knowledge of Christ (truth) people have come to know God. (Herasy right? God is my judge) Jesus is the spirit that brings people closer to God. If you want to grow in God, find the gift of repentance, and grow in Christs love, if you want to grow in God without Christ, then at least grow in love, and if you dont want to grow in God at all, at least grow in love.
What will be, will be, believing this is the essence of Gods will, but of course that doesnt make us innocent of our choices, and therefore holds our concious mind in contempt and judgement. This is not so that God can punish his creation in hell for eternity, this is so that there can be a new creation born of the invisible God. When you forge steel, you do it in a fire. The steel is what is being forged, the fire is merely necessary. No one can commune with God without faith, and since God is eternal the one who communes with him in eternity is the one whos faith is forged in this furnace of affliction we know as the world. Every thing is in Gods will, the fire is his, and everything serves the purpose of good, ultimately.
There are only so many souls living in the universe occupying the same time. Only when ALL those souls come to a knowledge of the truth will we have peace on earth. The truth is that God loves us. Thats the secret, that is the power of grace. And not with the love we use to love one another, that is very weak, but with the very nature of love itself. Love, loves to love... the hardened heart cannot deal with that truth.
There is a firey motion of love moving through the "universe" of the soul of mankind, some are in it, some are fueling it with "hot coals", making it stronger and stronger, until the truth occupys all the souls from the beginning to the end, because God said as it was in the beginning so shall it be in the end. There is an ultimate purpose of the human life, just as there is with all things that sustain life. That purpose is spelled out in the inspired word of God. That all shall know that God is the savior, creator, and lover of man, and that there shall be a new heaven and a new earth filled with the forged creations of Gods spirit. It is Gods desire that no one perish, that all come to the knowledge of the truth, and that we learn to love one another in spirit and in truth, just as God loves us. I believe that when the motion of Gods will is complete, and his Word has sevred its purpose, that he will appear to all of us... that God will appear to all of us. Whether this is a physical manifestion, or just an absolutely overwhelming spiritual revelation of the concious mind.
Many are missing the purpose of the Christian faith. It is to bring a transcendent peace to all the inhabitants of the earth through a revelation of Gods eternal and powerful love. Why is this such a bad thing? Many only know and have intimate relations with the sin living in us, but few know and have intimate relations with the grace that takes away that sin. There is a difference between believing in God and believing in Gods eternal grace. It is the zeal of the jews at the time of Christ (and certainly present today in many Christian, Islamic, and Hindu enviornments) that crucified the truth, because through their zeal, they did not know or recognize the grace. They were too busy "honoring with the lips instead of the heart". If the zeal of those religions that believe in God would see his grace, the world would be a better place for everyone. Understanding and presenting God is not about how the world began, or what is sin, or who is right ect... it is about knowing the spirit of God and living in peace and love with all life in that truth. God is love.
For now, dont let sin inspire a rebellion in you that keeps you from what loves you most, everything is sin, and idle talk from idle mouths inspires idle thought. What good does it do anyone to follow the bitter-filled venom that this man spits? Has it given you hope? Are you now filled with great peace and love toward all mankind? Are you armed to fight the greater fight within your own mind between what gives you ife and what trys to destroy it? Has he given you any reason to believe in love? Has he answered the deeper questions of your soul and made you a more powerful spiritual vessel, allowing your life to connect with all life? Could I not make the same video with supporing examples of why following the systematic pre-existant influence of the world is detrimental to a truly fulfilling life? This man has a broad scope of worldly perspectives of religion and a very keen wit, but im afraid he lacks even a simple raindrop of spiritual life. For those who seek the deeper gratifications and thirsts, this man is an empty well.
All this is inspired through the Word of God through the blood of Jesus. Its greatly encouraged, at least by me, to enjoy and celebrate Christmas with all your heart. Put up trees, play in the snow, give, decorate, eat, drink and be merry and give thanks in all circumstances! Trust not in tomorrow, trust in God... dont forget to enjoy the sky and the gift we were given to be able to experience it just once.
Now, how many people did I upset? 
The Bluest Skies.
"We didn't start the fire"
"I am sorry, but you don't "know what you need to find".
Since I found hope, I feel as if I can die in peace, and no amount of evidence can give you that, nor take it away. Im afraid you may underestimate the power of hope.
Since I found hope, I feel as if I can die in peace, and no amount of evidence can give you that, nor take it away. Im afraid you may underestimate the power of hope.
"We didn't start the fire"
skinnay 0
If god is "love", why does he send the people who don't accept him to hell? Please explain the ethics in this.
thanks
thanks
beowulf 1
All I see from you is a lot of talk with no evidence to back up anything you say. You found hope in something you desperately want to believe. Yet you have nothing to back up those beliefs. I call that wishful thinking at best and delusional at worst.
billvon 2,471
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>You found hope in something you desperately want to believe. Yet
>you have nothing to back up those beliefs. I call that wishful
>thinking at best and delusional at worst.
If a friend of yours fell in love with a girl, and they got married, would you describe his feelings for her using the same terms?
>you have nothing to back up those beliefs. I call that wishful
>thinking at best and delusional at worst.
If a friend of yours fell in love with a girl, and they got married, would you describe his feelings for her using the same terms?
QuoteYour biggest problem is you begin with a belief and then look for and find evidence to support it
I agree with you.
In almost every case, I find that religious people define their version
of their beliefs and then search for a religious institution that
agrees with it.
Usually the tactic is to find people that have similar beliefs and
then start attending church with them.
It gives the "I must be right because everyone at church
agrees with me".
Quote
Difference is that the government expects people to read the Driver's Handbook. The Judeo-Christian leadership doesn't really want people reading the Bible. They want to quote it and hope you just listen to their interpretation.
Good point. They're actually more like some African/South America/Eastern Europe cops, which want people to learn the rules from them, so they can extort bribes (indulgences) for alleged violations.
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Anyone that actually reads it is going to have issues with it - a LOT of issues - and that act may shake the faith of the reader.
Obviously. The first question would be like "how THIS could be even considered a guidance? It looks like written by someone who took too much Prozac".
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
RonD1120 58
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Now, how many people did I upset?
The Bluest Skies.
I'm not upset. Beautifully stated and I understand and accept your statement. I think one of the major hangups with our skydiving brothers and sisters is the concept of love. They confuse lust with love.
Love requires commitment and responsibility. The majority of today's skydivers what good times, more money and, little to no responsibility. Commitment, well, that's for the suckers who don't know how to slip and slide through life.
Merry Christmas brother.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
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Now, how many people did I upset?Quote
Probably nobody. As long as you keep your beliefs to yourself, and not trying to force others to follow them, you'll be fine.
Your comment about the alleged purpose of the Christian faith to bring peace, however, indeed made me laugh.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
Ron 7
QuoteNot all are meant to understand, only those who can hear with their own ears.
So you are saying that the all knowing God created a certain percentage of people knowing darn good and well that they would be tortured FOREVER in a hell of HIS OWN DESIGN?
Sorry, that does not sound like a loving God to me... He created Hell, and then created people he KNEW would be tortured forever?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Quote>You found hope in something you desperately want to believe. Yet
>you have nothing to back up those beliefs. I call that wishful
>thinking at best and delusional at worst.
If a friend of yours fell in love with a girl, and they got married, would you describe his feelings for her using the same terms?
If he had never actually met this girl, didn't know what she looked like, had never heard her voice nor ever received a written correspondence from her? Yes, yes I would.
Quote"If god is "love", why does he send the people who don't accept him to hell? Please explain the ethics in this."
What is hell? Have you been there? Has anybody been there? Where I have been, is in the fire of restlessness, hopelessness, struggle, confusion, chaos and pain, as most have been. I wrote a lyric one time to express it "Im trapped in a prison, and I cant find the little bars that hold me there"... If people want to label such a radical experience of emptiness as merely a collapse or imballance of chemical movement in my brain, then so be it. But I was incredibly suprised by the power of the light in Jesus. It is in the spirit of this light that I continue to share these revelations, that I hold very dear, with anyone those moments are for, always with great scrutiny and sometimes persecution (which I understand fully by the way and no worries there
). I dont personally believe in the hell that most do. I do believe in hell, as the eternal death, but also necessary for their to be the brighter more life inspiring hope of heaven and eternal life. Jesus' disciples asked him where heaven was, and he responded, "It is difficult to say where heaven is, because the kingdom of heaven is within you." To me, it just made much more sense to assume as well that hell is within. I believe in heaven and hell, like I believe in life and death. There is a life beyond just being alive, and there is a death worse than dying. If you want the life of God that is your right to have, then just ask Jesus and go from there. You may experience something miraculous and indescribable!
However one percieves heaven and hell, it is wise to fear God, and that fear, if real, will find a greater love. The bible says to "understand what it means to fear the Lord" and that "the one who fears is not made perfect in love". This tells me that understanding the fear of the Lord is what allows us to find perfection in love. To answer your question, its not that he sends people who dont accept him to hell, is that there is only life in his spirit and if you dont know/find that life, then all you have is death.
"The spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life"
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; He has crossed over from death to life"
"I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blook, you have no life in you"
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"
I added the italics to emphasize, that if someone wants to come to God, it must be through the spirit of Jesus, but the bible goes on to reveal that God comes to whomever he pleases.
Think about a child who eats nothing but stale unsalted crackers his whole life, its no worries, its just what he eats, and he finds great enjoyment in them at times. Then one day he gets a taste of the absolute most tastiest desert and hes dumbfounded by how awesome it was, hes "baptised" in that moment forever. Even though before he had the greatest desert, the crackers were just fine...becasue he never knew what he was missing until he found out. The memory alone of eating that desert will last him and give him hope, knowing that sort of tasteful experience exists at all.
I believe that life is good, life is great even, and it is meant to be enjoyed fully, but it is even better with grace, and now you know the truth. Hope this helps.
edited to add quotes.
"We didn't start the fire"
skinnay 0
I love when christians try to sound like nice people while defending the belief that everyone else is going to hell :)
Quote"It gives the "I must be right because everyone at church
agrees with me".
-It should say, "I must be home because everyone in church (church is just communion with God) understands me"
Church is a state of mind, where believers are free to worship God in spirit and in truth with full understanding and without judgement... whereever they hear the voice or find the bread. "Where two or more get together in my name, there I will be"
If we're going to define church in these forums, it should at least be defined as it is in the Gospel. Its a gathering of believers, or a moment with God in spirit and in truth, and the setting can literally be anywhere... some of the most humble spots in the universe have brought some of the greatest revelations of the spirit.
"We didn't start the fire"
Quote"So you are saying that the all knowing God created a certain percentage of people knowing darn good and well that they would be tortured FOREVER in a hell of HIS OWN DESIGN?"
-No, im saying something quite a bit different, but im afraid you may be hearing something similar to the same thing that has hidden the truth from people for a long time, I call it the lie, and unfortunately/fortunately it is necessary to find the truth. All I can say is try to understand the Gospel as it is written... in spirit and in truth, with all your heart.
"We didn't start the fire"
Interesting point. I wonder if people believed half as much in obeying the laws mentioned in the Bible as they do in adhering to those from the Driver's Handbook ,if there would still so much strife in the world?
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Yeah, for starters all the folks who mix polyester with cotton would be gone. And those who eat shrimp or lobster.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.