wmw999 2,146 #1 September 14, 2009 I'd like to start up a thought exercise. Because there are, in fact, a ton of illegal immigrants from a number of countries (mostly Central America). However, so many of the solutions proposed seem to have downsides that more than counter their upsides. However, if by talking about ideas and their consequences, we might just come up with some that have some potential; i.e. some thinking has been done about the consequences, and they can be proposed to our various congresscritters, with the consequences identified. That gives credibility. Now -- have others done this? Sure. But, ya know -- thinking about a problem is rarely wasted time. I realize that there is no such thing as thread rules, but I'd really, really like people to: - propose things that they think have a potential of working (i.e. not stuff like "shoot them all" or "it doesn't matter") - be willing to critique stuff with some honesty and a little politeness. If something is proposed sincerely, then it should be discussed in the same way. Yeah, it'll probably descend into chaos, but if we could wait until page 2 for that to happen it'd be great Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #2 September 14, 2009 Possible solution #1 - 1) Tax everyone without a social security number/proof of residency at the highest tax rate there is. 2) Allow them to redeem the balance of their taxes (i.e. amount they were taxed - amount they owe) at a US embassy/consulate far from the US. To get it they have to show ID and/or provide biometric ID. If they go back to get it, great - they're out of the country, and we have a record of who they are. If they don't, then we keep it, and use the money to deal with the costs of illegal immigration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #3 September 14, 2009 So anything about the ones who aren't paying taxes anyway, or is that just the same as for legals? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #4 September 14, 2009 As matters stand, we have a problem with illegal immigration because we provide jobs to people who are not entitled to work here. Certain industries in particular benefit from hiring illegals, as they can pay them less than Americans would demand for the same services. We need: 1) A fast, easy-to-use, and highly accurate system to verify social security numbers (including matching numbers to names. The E-verify system is supposed to do this, but accuracy and ease of use are apparently problematic. However I recently heard a program on NPR where HR people said that they could get verification routinely in under 3 minutes, which seems pretty good to me. In the same program, the American Council of Business (or something like that) was whining about the cost imposed on business (which is trivial, especially compared to criminal background checks); basically their attitude was to let someone else take care of the problem. 2) Require all employers to verify employees social security number. 3) Police businesses to ensure checks are made, ideally before beginning employment. Severely fine both businesses who fail to check, and illegals who obtain employment without legal status. Remove the financial incentive to hire illegals. If it is nearly impossible to get a job here as an illegal immigrant, very few will come here (illegally) and the ones already here will lose their jobs and have to leave. Of course, if down the road we discover that we really don't have the people to pick crops or pluck chickens or whatever, we will have to create legal mechanisms for people to come here to do those jobs. As it stands now, either there are no existing mechanisms to obtain visas to work in certain industries, or those visas are prohibitively expensive. If an industry needs to bring in foreign workers, perhaps they should pay the visa costs, just as high-tech industries pay H1 visa costs for immigrants with needed technical skills. On the down side, the cost of food is likely to rise some. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #5 September 14, 2009 QuotePossible solution #1 - 1) Tax everyone without a social security number/proof of residency at the highest tax rate there is. 2) Allow them to redeem the balance of their taxes (i.e. amount they were taxed - amount they owe) at a US embassy/consulate far from the US. To get it they have to show ID and/or provide biometric ID. If they go back to get it, great - they're out of the country, and we have a record of who they are. If they don't, then we keep it, and use the money to deal with the costs of illegal immigration. Bill, I'm curious about your idea - how do you propose finding everyone without SS#/proof of residency in order to tax them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayneflorida 0 #6 September 14, 2009 Need to somehow over ride this anchor baby ruling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #7 September 14, 2009 The real objection most people have to illegal immigration is that those people might be able to collect taxpayer funded benefits. My solution is to allow anyone to legally immigrate if they simply sign an agreement to never collect any kind of welfare or government support. Since 97% of immigrants never do collect anything, that ought to be easy for them, while weeding out anyone who actually wants to ride the system.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #8 September 14, 2009 QuoteBill, I'm curious about your idea - how do you propose finding everyone without SS#/proof of residency in order to tax them? Are you talking about workers being paid under the table? Because if they're not, then it's easy enough to accomplish via payroll withholding.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #9 September 14, 2009 >how do you propose finding everyone without SS#/proof of residency in >order to tax them? Who do you have to find? The law will read that any employer must withhold X% of any employee's pay if Y conditions are not met. Choose X and Y to your liking. No finding people. If the guy is indeed an illegal alien, and wants to claim his tax refund, the onus of proof is on him. And I have a feeling that if it means he'll be able to get a few thousand $$$ he will discover his ID (or consent to biometric ID.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #10 September 14, 2009 Quote>how do you propose finding everyone without SS#/proof of residency in >order to tax them? Who do you have to find? The law will read that any employer must withhold X% of any employee's pay if Y conditions are not met. Choose X and Y to your liking. No finding people. _____________________________________________ And how does that thwart all the illegals in construction and landscaping who are unlicensed contractors and their crews?? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #11 September 14, 2009 >And how does that thwart all the illegals in construction and landscaping >who are unlicensed contractors and their crews? Every employer withholds the tax or they go to jail, period. This is actually similar to what we have now, but allows for the labor that currently harvests our crops (and rakes our leaves etc) to keep working. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #12 September 14, 2009 Quote>And how does that thwart all the illegals in construction and landscaping >who are unlicensed contractors and their crews? Every employer withholds the tax or they go to jail, period. Quote There is no current law requiring a withholding tax on contractors' fees, so how does your plan addresss the problem of illegal alien contractors and their crews of illegals in construction and landscaping?. Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #13 September 14, 2009 >There is no current law requiring a withholding tax on contractors' fees, >so how does your plan addresss the problem of illegal alien contractors >and their crews of illegals in construction and landscaping?. I am proposing a new law that requires any employer who has employees, even if they are considered "crews", deduct those taxes. If they're contractors and they have crews they have to withhold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #14 September 14, 2009 Quote. Because there are, in fact, a ton of illegal immigrants from a number of countries (mostly Central America). Quote OK, I've got the solution for all thise South American illegals. It's not a new idea but an innovation on an idea that already has congressional approval ,presidential authority and government financing, it also has ben used in the past with pretty good results in other areas of the world; the borderfence . My plan is to put up fliers, in spanish, at various locations around every city in places you would expect illegals to frequent (taco joints, laundrymats,soccer fields, you get the picture) advertising construction jobs in areas along the border at good pay for an illegal, let' say $15 an hour . We hire everyone who shows and build a stone wall 50 feet tall 110 yards from the border with the workers working from the south side. When that particular project is complete we back 'em up 100 yards and have 'em build us another one , a duplicate, again from the south side. Next , between the walls we release the hounds. Or better yet use the center area as a training grounds for Army ,Airforce,Marines. What's wrong with that idea? Blues, Cliff i Here's what we do2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #15 September 15, 2009 Quote>There is no current law requiring a withholding tax on contractors' fees, >so how does your plan addresss the problem of illegal alien contractors >and their crews of illegals in construction and landscaping?. I am proposing a new law that requires any employer who has employees, even if they are considered "crews", deduct those taxes. If they're contractors and they have crews they have to withhold. Oh, I see! You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Yeah, that'll work ! Oh, one more thing Bill, we already have a law like that on the books or at least most people think we do. Joe Bannister didn't and the court agreed with him and all , but witholding is pretty much the norm among the "legitimate" businesses. Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #16 September 15, 2009 This is WAY OUT THERE... and would NEVER happen.... but I am sincere when I say it. We all grow up. We are ALL HUMANS. Not "Americans" or "yanks" or "seppos." Not "British" or "Limeys." Not "German" or "krauts." Not black or white or yellow. Not "Northerners" or "Southerners." Not "Yuppers" or "FIBS" or "Valley Girls" or "Jersey Girls" We realize that we call all think differently and THAT'S OK. We all WORK for our future and not worry about what the Jones'es might or might not have. We all understand that everyone is truly just trying to make it through this life on this planet. We ALL grow up. Illegal immigration and the work force - does it "hurt" Americans? Yes and no. Yes, it does limit the available jobs that can be offered to "legal" workers. No, work is still being done for the American society. Turn it around - I might have been "legal" when I went on the medical mission to Peru, but I still did work that the local physicians could have done and gotten compensation for. But for the most part they were happy to be having help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #17 September 15, 2009 >You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Nope, no more so than tax laws are enforced by people who cheat on their taxes. >Oh, one more thing Bill, we already have a law like that on the books >or at least most people think we do. Current law does not require employers to withhold any federal income tax from part time workers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #18 September 15, 2009 QuoteThis is WAY OUT THERE... and would NEVER happen.... but I am sincere when I say it. We all grow up. We are ALL HUMANS. Not "Americans" or "yanks" or "seppos." Not "British" or "Limeys." Not "German" or "krauts." Not black or white or yellow. Not "Northerners" or "Southerners." Not "Yuppers" or "FIBS" or "Valley Girls" or "Jersey Girls" We realize that we call all think differently and THAT'S OK. We all WORK for our future and not worry about what the Jones'es might or might not have. We all understand that everyone is truly just trying to make it through this life on this planet. We ALL grow up.Quote Yes and I'm sure all the Christians will back us up here. I believe that if God did create the earth for man he didn't assign any particular parcel to any particular person or group( excepting of course his " favorites",the Jews, who are to have inherited the land of milk and honey and human organs for all time) so who is to say where one can tread on this planet? How can one "own "real estate ? If God created it for all of mankind how can any Christian nation and people legitimately deny access to any of their brothers in Christ Jesus ,Lord and Savior? Of course as for those Muslims and atheists..., Fuck'em!!!! Blue, Cliff Illegal immigration and the work force - does it "hurt" Americans? Yes and no. Yes, it does limit the available jobs that can be offered to "legal" workers. No, work is still being done for the American society. Turn it around - I might have been "legal" when I went on the medical mission to Peru, but I still did work that the local physicians could have done and gotten compensation for. But for the most part they were happy to be having help.2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 340 #19 September 15, 2009 kbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #20 September 15, 2009 Quotekbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don Oh... I know it's too Disney. And even I have a lot of growth to do... but it's still A solution. Just not really a viable solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #21 September 15, 2009 Quote>You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Nope, no more so than tax laws are enforced by people who cheat on their taxes.Quote Well Bill , if contactors' fees are not subject to withholding, and illegal and alien contractors are being paid for jobs , how does your plan thwart them? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #22 September 15, 2009 QuoteQuotekbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don Oh... I know it's too Disney. And even I have a lot of growth to do... but it's still A solution. Quote Actually I believe you are on the right track, kbordson. Blues, Cliff Just not really a viable solution.2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #23 September 15, 2009 >Well Bill , if contactors' fees are not subject to withholding, and illegal >and alien contractors are being paid for jobs , how does your plan thwart >them? That's the point. It does not. They can still work in the US. They just can't get all their wages. To get them, they have to return to their home country and go to the embassy to retrieve them. The objective of my plan is not to thwart people who want to work. It merely gives them a very strong incentive to go back to their own country when they are done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #24 September 15, 2009 I don't think illegal immigrants are the core of the problem. This situations is actually a perfect example of why illegal immigration is seen as a problem. There us presently concern over whether illegal immigrants will be able to obtain government benefits. The gripe about illegals over the last forty years or so has primarily been over their receipt of government benefits. Here's the solution to the problem of illegal immigrants - stop the socialism! It doesn't mean there will not be undocumented workers. The WOP and Micks of the 1800s were frequently without papers. They just showed up. The problems they faced were racial. Immigrants will still face that. But they won't be blamed for hitching a ride on the gravy train if there is no gravy train. The problem is not illegal immigration. The problem is socialism. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #25 September 15, 2009 If the only complaints were "illegals are taking public money!" I would agree. But the other complaints are that "illegals are taking my job!" and "illegals are here ILLEGALLY and making me have to learn Spanish!" and those are not amenable to changing their benefits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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billvon 2,426 #11 September 14, 2009 >And how does that thwart all the illegals in construction and landscaping >who are unlicensed contractors and their crews? Every employer withholds the tax or they go to jail, period. This is actually similar to what we have now, but allows for the labor that currently harvests our crops (and rakes our leaves etc) to keep working. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #12 September 14, 2009 Quote>And how does that thwart all the illegals in construction and landscaping >who are unlicensed contractors and their crews? Every employer withholds the tax or they go to jail, period. Quote There is no current law requiring a withholding tax on contractors' fees, so how does your plan addresss the problem of illegal alien contractors and their crews of illegals in construction and landscaping?. Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #13 September 14, 2009 >There is no current law requiring a withholding tax on contractors' fees, >so how does your plan addresss the problem of illegal alien contractors >and their crews of illegals in construction and landscaping?. I am proposing a new law that requires any employer who has employees, even if they are considered "crews", deduct those taxes. If they're contractors and they have crews they have to withhold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #14 September 14, 2009 Quote. Because there are, in fact, a ton of illegal immigrants from a number of countries (mostly Central America). Quote OK, I've got the solution for all thise South American illegals. It's not a new idea but an innovation on an idea that already has congressional approval ,presidential authority and government financing, it also has ben used in the past with pretty good results in other areas of the world; the borderfence . My plan is to put up fliers, in spanish, at various locations around every city in places you would expect illegals to frequent (taco joints, laundrymats,soccer fields, you get the picture) advertising construction jobs in areas along the border at good pay for an illegal, let' say $15 an hour . We hire everyone who shows and build a stone wall 50 feet tall 110 yards from the border with the workers working from the south side. When that particular project is complete we back 'em up 100 yards and have 'em build us another one , a duplicate, again from the south side. Next , between the walls we release the hounds. Or better yet use the center area as a training grounds for Army ,Airforce,Marines. What's wrong with that idea? Blues, Cliff i Here's what we do2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #15 September 15, 2009 Quote>There is no current law requiring a withholding tax on contractors' fees, >so how does your plan addresss the problem of illegal alien contractors >and their crews of illegals in construction and landscaping?. I am proposing a new law that requires any employer who has employees, even if they are considered "crews", deduct those taxes. If they're contractors and they have crews they have to withhold. Oh, I see! You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Yeah, that'll work ! Oh, one more thing Bill, we already have a law like that on the books or at least most people think we do. Joe Bannister didn't and the court agreed with him and all , but witholding is pretty much the norm among the "legitimate" businesses. Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #16 September 15, 2009 This is WAY OUT THERE... and would NEVER happen.... but I am sincere when I say it. We all grow up. We are ALL HUMANS. Not "Americans" or "yanks" or "seppos." Not "British" or "Limeys." Not "German" or "krauts." Not black or white or yellow. Not "Northerners" or "Southerners." Not "Yuppers" or "FIBS" or "Valley Girls" or "Jersey Girls" We realize that we call all think differently and THAT'S OK. We all WORK for our future and not worry about what the Jones'es might or might not have. We all understand that everyone is truly just trying to make it through this life on this planet. We ALL grow up. Illegal immigration and the work force - does it "hurt" Americans? Yes and no. Yes, it does limit the available jobs that can be offered to "legal" workers. No, work is still being done for the American society. Turn it around - I might have been "legal" when I went on the medical mission to Peru, but I still did work that the local physicians could have done and gotten compensation for. But for the most part they were happy to be having help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #17 September 15, 2009 >You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Nope, no more so than tax laws are enforced by people who cheat on their taxes. >Oh, one more thing Bill, we already have a law like that on the books >or at least most people think we do. Current law does not require employers to withhold any federal income tax from part time workers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #18 September 15, 2009 QuoteThis is WAY OUT THERE... and would NEVER happen.... but I am sincere when I say it. We all grow up. We are ALL HUMANS. Not "Americans" or "yanks" or "seppos." Not "British" or "Limeys." Not "German" or "krauts." Not black or white or yellow. Not "Northerners" or "Southerners." Not "Yuppers" or "FIBS" or "Valley Girls" or "Jersey Girls" We realize that we call all think differently and THAT'S OK. We all WORK for our future and not worry about what the Jones'es might or might not have. We all understand that everyone is truly just trying to make it through this life on this planet. We ALL grow up.Quote Yes and I'm sure all the Christians will back us up here. I believe that if God did create the earth for man he didn't assign any particular parcel to any particular person or group( excepting of course his " favorites",the Jews, who are to have inherited the land of milk and honey and human organs for all time) so who is to say where one can tread on this planet? How can one "own "real estate ? If God created it for all of mankind how can any Christian nation and people legitimately deny access to any of their brothers in Christ Jesus ,Lord and Savior? Of course as for those Muslims and atheists..., Fuck'em!!!! Blue, Cliff Illegal immigration and the work force - does it "hurt" Americans? Yes and no. Yes, it does limit the available jobs that can be offered to "legal" workers. No, work is still being done for the American society. Turn it around - I might have been "legal" when I went on the medical mission to Peru, but I still did work that the local physicians could have done and gotten compensation for. But for the most part they were happy to be having help.2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 340 #19 September 15, 2009 kbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #20 September 15, 2009 Quotekbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don Oh... I know it's too Disney. And even I have a lot of growth to do... but it's still A solution. Just not really a viable solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #21 September 15, 2009 Quote>You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Nope, no more so than tax laws are enforced by people who cheat on their taxes.Quote Well Bill , if contactors' fees are not subject to withholding, and illegal and alien contractors are being paid for jobs , how does your plan thwart them? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #22 September 15, 2009 QuoteQuotekbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don Oh... I know it's too Disney. And even I have a lot of growth to do... but it's still A solution. Quote Actually I believe you are on the right track, kbordson. Blues, Cliff Just not really a viable solution.2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #23 September 15, 2009 >Well Bill , if contactors' fees are not subject to withholding, and illegal >and alien contractors are being paid for jobs , how does your plan thwart >them? That's the point. It does not. They can still work in the US. They just can't get all their wages. To get them, they have to return to their home country and go to the embassy to retrieve them. The objective of my plan is not to thwart people who want to work. It merely gives them a very strong incentive to go back to their own country when they are done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #24 September 15, 2009 I don't think illegal immigrants are the core of the problem. This situations is actually a perfect example of why illegal immigration is seen as a problem. There us presently concern over whether illegal immigrants will be able to obtain government benefits. The gripe about illegals over the last forty years or so has primarily been over their receipt of government benefits. Here's the solution to the problem of illegal immigrants - stop the socialism! It doesn't mean there will not be undocumented workers. The WOP and Micks of the 1800s were frequently without papers. They just showed up. The problems they faced were racial. Immigrants will still face that. But they won't be blamed for hitching a ride on the gravy train if there is no gravy train. The problem is not illegal immigration. The problem is socialism. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #25 September 15, 2009 If the only complaints were "illegals are taking public money!" I would agree. But the other complaints are that "illegals are taking my job!" and "illegals are here ILLEGALLY and making me have to learn Spanish!" and those are not amenable to changing their benefits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing × Sign In Sign Up Forums Dropzones Classifieds Gear Indoor Articles Photos Videos Calendar Stolen Fatalities Leaderboard Activity Back Activity All Activity My Activity Streams Unread Content Content I Started
billvon 2,426 #13 September 14, 2009 >There is no current law requiring a withholding tax on contractors' fees, >so how does your plan addresss the problem of illegal alien contractors >and their crews of illegals in construction and landscaping?. I am proposing a new law that requires any employer who has employees, even if they are considered "crews", deduct those taxes. If they're contractors and they have crews they have to withhold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #14 September 14, 2009 Quote. Because there are, in fact, a ton of illegal immigrants from a number of countries (mostly Central America). Quote OK, I've got the solution for all thise South American illegals. It's not a new idea but an innovation on an idea that already has congressional approval ,presidential authority and government financing, it also has ben used in the past with pretty good results in other areas of the world; the borderfence . My plan is to put up fliers, in spanish, at various locations around every city in places you would expect illegals to frequent (taco joints, laundrymats,soccer fields, you get the picture) advertising construction jobs in areas along the border at good pay for an illegal, let' say $15 an hour . We hire everyone who shows and build a stone wall 50 feet tall 110 yards from the border with the workers working from the south side. When that particular project is complete we back 'em up 100 yards and have 'em build us another one , a duplicate, again from the south side. Next , between the walls we release the hounds. Or better yet use the center area as a training grounds for Army ,Airforce,Marines. What's wrong with that idea? Blues, Cliff i Here's what we do2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #15 September 15, 2009 Quote>There is no current law requiring a withholding tax on contractors' fees, >so how does your plan addresss the problem of illegal alien contractors >and their crews of illegals in construction and landscaping?. I am proposing a new law that requires any employer who has employees, even if they are considered "crews", deduct those taxes. If they're contractors and they have crews they have to withhold. Oh, I see! You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Yeah, that'll work ! Oh, one more thing Bill, we already have a law like that on the books or at least most people think we do. Joe Bannister didn't and the court agreed with him and all , but witholding is pretty much the norm among the "legitimate" businesses. Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #16 September 15, 2009 This is WAY OUT THERE... and would NEVER happen.... but I am sincere when I say it. We all grow up. We are ALL HUMANS. Not "Americans" or "yanks" or "seppos." Not "British" or "Limeys." Not "German" or "krauts." Not black or white or yellow. Not "Northerners" or "Southerners." Not "Yuppers" or "FIBS" or "Valley Girls" or "Jersey Girls" We realize that we call all think differently and THAT'S OK. We all WORK for our future and not worry about what the Jones'es might or might not have. We all understand that everyone is truly just trying to make it through this life on this planet. We ALL grow up. Illegal immigration and the work force - does it "hurt" Americans? Yes and no. Yes, it does limit the available jobs that can be offered to "legal" workers. No, work is still being done for the American society. Turn it around - I might have been "legal" when I went on the medical mission to Peru, but I still did work that the local physicians could have done and gotten compensation for. But for the most part they were happy to be having help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #17 September 15, 2009 >You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Nope, no more so than tax laws are enforced by people who cheat on their taxes. >Oh, one more thing Bill, we already have a law like that on the books >or at least most people think we do. Current law does not require employers to withhold any federal income tax from part time workers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #18 September 15, 2009 QuoteThis is WAY OUT THERE... and would NEVER happen.... but I am sincere when I say it. We all grow up. We are ALL HUMANS. Not "Americans" or "yanks" or "seppos." Not "British" or "Limeys." Not "German" or "krauts." Not black or white or yellow. Not "Northerners" or "Southerners." Not "Yuppers" or "FIBS" or "Valley Girls" or "Jersey Girls" We realize that we call all think differently and THAT'S OK. We all WORK for our future and not worry about what the Jones'es might or might not have. We all understand that everyone is truly just trying to make it through this life on this planet. We ALL grow up.Quote Yes and I'm sure all the Christians will back us up here. I believe that if God did create the earth for man he didn't assign any particular parcel to any particular person or group( excepting of course his " favorites",the Jews, who are to have inherited the land of milk and honey and human organs for all time) so who is to say where one can tread on this planet? How can one "own "real estate ? If God created it for all of mankind how can any Christian nation and people legitimately deny access to any of their brothers in Christ Jesus ,Lord and Savior? Of course as for those Muslims and atheists..., Fuck'em!!!! Blue, Cliff Illegal immigration and the work force - does it "hurt" Americans? Yes and no. Yes, it does limit the available jobs that can be offered to "legal" workers. No, work is still being done for the American society. Turn it around - I might have been "legal" when I went on the medical mission to Peru, but I still did work that the local physicians could have done and gotten compensation for. But for the most part they were happy to be having help.2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 340 #19 September 15, 2009 kbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #20 September 15, 2009 Quotekbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don Oh... I know it's too Disney. And even I have a lot of growth to do... but it's still A solution. Just not really a viable solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #21 September 15, 2009 Quote>You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Nope, no more so than tax laws are enforced by people who cheat on their taxes.Quote Well Bill , if contactors' fees are not subject to withholding, and illegal and alien contractors are being paid for jobs , how does your plan thwart them? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #22 September 15, 2009 QuoteQuotekbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don Oh... I know it's too Disney. And even I have a lot of growth to do... but it's still A solution. Quote Actually I believe you are on the right track, kbordson. Blues, Cliff Just not really a viable solution.2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #23 September 15, 2009 >Well Bill , if contactors' fees are not subject to withholding, and illegal >and alien contractors are being paid for jobs , how does your plan thwart >them? That's the point. It does not. They can still work in the US. They just can't get all their wages. To get them, they have to return to their home country and go to the embassy to retrieve them. The objective of my plan is not to thwart people who want to work. It merely gives them a very strong incentive to go back to their own country when they are done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #24 September 15, 2009 I don't think illegal immigrants are the core of the problem. This situations is actually a perfect example of why illegal immigration is seen as a problem. There us presently concern over whether illegal immigrants will be able to obtain government benefits. The gripe about illegals over the last forty years or so has primarily been over their receipt of government benefits. Here's the solution to the problem of illegal immigrants - stop the socialism! It doesn't mean there will not be undocumented workers. The WOP and Micks of the 1800s were frequently without papers. They just showed up. The problems they faced were racial. Immigrants will still face that. But they won't be blamed for hitching a ride on the gravy train if there is no gravy train. The problem is not illegal immigration. The problem is socialism. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #25 September 15, 2009 If the only complaints were "illegals are taking public money!" I would agree. But the other complaints are that "illegals are taking my job!" and "illegals are here ILLEGALLY and making me have to learn Spanish!" and those are not amenable to changing their benefits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing × Sign In Sign Up Forums Dropzones Classifieds Gear Indoor Articles Photos Videos Calendar Stolen Fatalities Leaderboard Activity Back Activity All Activity My Activity Streams Unread Content Content I Started
cliffwhite 0 #15 September 15, 2009 Quote>There is no current law requiring a withholding tax on contractors' fees, >so how does your plan addresss the problem of illegal alien contractors >and their crews of illegals in construction and landscaping?. I am proposing a new law that requires any employer who has employees, even if they are considered "crews", deduct those taxes. If they're contractors and they have crews they have to withhold. Oh, I see! You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Yeah, that'll work ! Oh, one more thing Bill, we already have a law like that on the books or at least most people think we do. Joe Bannister didn't and the court agreed with him and all , but witholding is pretty much the norm among the "legitimate" businesses. Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #16 September 15, 2009 This is WAY OUT THERE... and would NEVER happen.... but I am sincere when I say it. We all grow up. We are ALL HUMANS. Not "Americans" or "yanks" or "seppos." Not "British" or "Limeys." Not "German" or "krauts." Not black or white or yellow. Not "Northerners" or "Southerners." Not "Yuppers" or "FIBS" or "Valley Girls" or "Jersey Girls" We realize that we call all think differently and THAT'S OK. We all WORK for our future and not worry about what the Jones'es might or might not have. We all understand that everyone is truly just trying to make it through this life on this planet. We ALL grow up. Illegal immigration and the work force - does it "hurt" Americans? Yes and no. Yes, it does limit the available jobs that can be offered to "legal" workers. No, work is still being done for the American society. Turn it around - I might have been "legal" when I went on the medical mission to Peru, but I still did work that the local physicians could have done and gotten compensation for. But for the most part they were happy to be having help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #17 September 15, 2009 >You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Nope, no more so than tax laws are enforced by people who cheat on their taxes. >Oh, one more thing Bill, we already have a law like that on the books >or at least most people think we do. Current law does not require employers to withhold any federal income tax from part time workers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #18 September 15, 2009 QuoteThis is WAY OUT THERE... and would NEVER happen.... but I am sincere when I say it. We all grow up. We are ALL HUMANS. Not "Americans" or "yanks" or "seppos." Not "British" or "Limeys." Not "German" or "krauts." Not black or white or yellow. Not "Northerners" or "Southerners." Not "Yuppers" or "FIBS" or "Valley Girls" or "Jersey Girls" We realize that we call all think differently and THAT'S OK. We all WORK for our future and not worry about what the Jones'es might or might not have. We all understand that everyone is truly just trying to make it through this life on this planet. We ALL grow up.Quote Yes and I'm sure all the Christians will back us up here. I believe that if God did create the earth for man he didn't assign any particular parcel to any particular person or group( excepting of course his " favorites",the Jews, who are to have inherited the land of milk and honey and human organs for all time) so who is to say where one can tread on this planet? How can one "own "real estate ? If God created it for all of mankind how can any Christian nation and people legitimately deny access to any of their brothers in Christ Jesus ,Lord and Savior? Of course as for those Muslims and atheists..., Fuck'em!!!! Blue, Cliff Illegal immigration and the work force - does it "hurt" Americans? Yes and no. Yes, it does limit the available jobs that can be offered to "legal" workers. No, work is still being done for the American society. Turn it around - I might have been "legal" when I went on the medical mission to Peru, but I still did work that the local physicians could have done and gotten compensation for. But for the most part they were happy to be having help.2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 340 #19 September 15, 2009 kbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #20 September 15, 2009 Quotekbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don Oh... I know it's too Disney. And even I have a lot of growth to do... but it's still A solution. Just not really a viable solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #21 September 15, 2009 Quote>You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Nope, no more so than tax laws are enforced by people who cheat on their taxes.Quote Well Bill , if contactors' fees are not subject to withholding, and illegal and alien contractors are being paid for jobs , how does your plan thwart them? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #22 September 15, 2009 QuoteQuotekbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don Oh... I know it's too Disney. And even I have a lot of growth to do... but it's still A solution. Quote Actually I believe you are on the right track, kbordson. Blues, Cliff Just not really a viable solution.2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #23 September 15, 2009 >Well Bill , if contactors' fees are not subject to withholding, and illegal >and alien contractors are being paid for jobs , how does your plan thwart >them? That's the point. It does not. They can still work in the US. They just can't get all their wages. To get them, they have to return to their home country and go to the embassy to retrieve them. The objective of my plan is not to thwart people who want to work. It merely gives them a very strong incentive to go back to their own country when they are done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #24 September 15, 2009 I don't think illegal immigrants are the core of the problem. This situations is actually a perfect example of why illegal immigration is seen as a problem. There us presently concern over whether illegal immigrants will be able to obtain government benefits. The gripe about illegals over the last forty years or so has primarily been over their receipt of government benefits. Here's the solution to the problem of illegal immigrants - stop the socialism! It doesn't mean there will not be undocumented workers. The WOP and Micks of the 1800s were frequently without papers. They just showed up. The problems they faced were racial. Immigrants will still face that. But they won't be blamed for hitching a ride on the gravy train if there is no gravy train. The problem is not illegal immigration. The problem is socialism. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #25 September 15, 2009 If the only complaints were "illegals are taking public money!" I would agree. But the other complaints are that "illegals are taking my job!" and "illegals are here ILLEGALLY and making me have to learn Spanish!" and those are not amenable to changing their benefits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
GeorgiaDon 340 #19 September 15, 2009 kbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #20 September 15, 2009 Quotekbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don Oh... I know it's too Disney. And even I have a lot of growth to do... but it's still A solution. Just not really a viable solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #21 September 15, 2009 Quote>You are proposing that law to be self enforced by illegal contractors ? Nope, no more so than tax laws are enforced by people who cheat on their taxes.Quote Well Bill , if contactors' fees are not subject to withholding, and illegal and alien contractors are being paid for jobs , how does your plan thwart them? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #22 September 15, 2009 QuoteQuotekbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don Oh... I know it's too Disney. And even I have a lot of growth to do... but it's still A solution. Quote Actually I believe you are on the right track, kbordson. Blues, Cliff Just not really a viable solution.2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #23 September 15, 2009 >Well Bill , if contactors' fees are not subject to withholding, and illegal >and alien contractors are being paid for jobs , how does your plan thwart >them? That's the point. It does not. They can still work in the US. They just can't get all their wages. To get them, they have to return to their home country and go to the embassy to retrieve them. The objective of my plan is not to thwart people who want to work. It merely gives them a very strong incentive to go back to their own country when they are done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #24 September 15, 2009 I don't think illegal immigrants are the core of the problem. This situations is actually a perfect example of why illegal immigration is seen as a problem. There us presently concern over whether illegal immigrants will be able to obtain government benefits. The gripe about illegals over the last forty years or so has primarily been over their receipt of government benefits. Here's the solution to the problem of illegal immigrants - stop the socialism! It doesn't mean there will not be undocumented workers. The WOP and Micks of the 1800s were frequently without papers. They just showed up. The problems they faced were racial. Immigrants will still face that. But they won't be blamed for hitching a ride on the gravy train if there is no gravy train. The problem is not illegal immigration. The problem is socialism. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #25 September 15, 2009 If the only complaints were "illegals are taking public money!" I would agree. But the other complaints are that "illegals are taking my job!" and "illegals are here ILLEGALLY and making me have to learn Spanish!" and those are not amenable to changing their benefits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
cliffwhite 0 #22 September 15, 2009 QuoteQuotekbordson, Casting pearls before swine, I'm afraid. Don Oh... I know it's too Disney. And even I have a lot of growth to do... but it's still A solution. Quote Actually I believe you are on the right track, kbordson. Blues, Cliff Just not really a viable solution.2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #23 September 15, 2009 >Well Bill , if contactors' fees are not subject to withholding, and illegal >and alien contractors are being paid for jobs , how does your plan thwart >them? That's the point. It does not. They can still work in the US. They just can't get all their wages. To get them, they have to return to their home country and go to the embassy to retrieve them. The objective of my plan is not to thwart people who want to work. It merely gives them a very strong incentive to go back to their own country when they are done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #24 September 15, 2009 I don't think illegal immigrants are the core of the problem. This situations is actually a perfect example of why illegal immigration is seen as a problem. There us presently concern over whether illegal immigrants will be able to obtain government benefits. The gripe about illegals over the last forty years or so has primarily been over their receipt of government benefits. Here's the solution to the problem of illegal immigrants - stop the socialism! It doesn't mean there will not be undocumented workers. The WOP and Micks of the 1800s were frequently without papers. They just showed up. The problems they faced were racial. Immigrants will still face that. But they won't be blamed for hitching a ride on the gravy train if there is no gravy train. The problem is not illegal immigration. The problem is socialism. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #25 September 15, 2009 If the only complaints were "illegals are taking public money!" I would agree. But the other complaints are that "illegals are taking my job!" and "illegals are here ILLEGALLY and making me have to learn Spanish!" and those are not amenable to changing their benefits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
billvon 2,426 #23 September 15, 2009 >Well Bill , if contactors' fees are not subject to withholding, and illegal >and alien contractors are being paid for jobs , how does your plan thwart >them? That's the point. It does not. They can still work in the US. They just can't get all their wages. To get them, they have to return to their home country and go to the embassy to retrieve them. The objective of my plan is not to thwart people who want to work. It merely gives them a very strong incentive to go back to their own country when they are done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #24 September 15, 2009 I don't think illegal immigrants are the core of the problem. This situations is actually a perfect example of why illegal immigration is seen as a problem. There us presently concern over whether illegal immigrants will be able to obtain government benefits. The gripe about illegals over the last forty years or so has primarily been over their receipt of government benefits. Here's the solution to the problem of illegal immigrants - stop the socialism! It doesn't mean there will not be undocumented workers. The WOP and Micks of the 1800s were frequently without papers. They just showed up. The problems they faced were racial. Immigrants will still face that. But they won't be blamed for hitching a ride on the gravy train if there is no gravy train. The problem is not illegal immigration. The problem is socialism. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #25 September 15, 2009 If the only complaints were "illegals are taking public money!" I would agree. But the other complaints are that "illegals are taking my job!" and "illegals are here ILLEGALLY and making me have to learn Spanish!" and those are not amenable to changing their benefits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
