Home Schooling

[downwardspiral 0]

Personally I think it's a great idea. The children's test scores reflect not only the parents' ability to teach but their ability to parent. There is much more pressure on the parent to make sure their children are learning and if the parents were looking for an easy way out with regards to their childrens' education it would be far easier to just send them to a public school.

Granted the children may miss out on the social aspects of public education but that is not a problem without a solution.

In 1990, the National Home Education Research Institute issued a report entitled "A Nationwide Study of Home Education: Family Characteristics, Legal Matters, and Student Achievement." This was a study of over 2,163 homeschooling families which found that the average scores of the homeschool students were at or above the 80th percentile in all categories. The homeschoolers’ national percentile mean was 84th for reading, 80th for language, 81st for math, 84th for science and 83rd for social studies.1

http://www.omninerd.com/articles/The_Benefits_of_Homeschooling

For some reason home schooling is looked down upon. Why do you think that is and what are your thoughts on the subject?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[wmw999 2,149]

For little children the biggest problem I have with it is the social. Most adults have enough knowledge to teach average children how to read, write, and do basic arithmetic. And the difficult children will generally benefit more from the individual attention of a home-schooling setting than they lose from not having professional teachers.

I do think that socialization is an important skill, but not the most important skill.

By the time kids get into the higher grades (say 8th on up) the number of parents who have the knowledge to teach more challenging subjects goes down. And, frankly, some of the parents seem to want to homeschool to limit their child's perspective to what they (the parent) thinks is "right." However, often this means that the child hasn't been given the tools to deal with questions and situations that they haven't beens specifically educated on.

And those situations WILL happen. If you don't give people the tools they need BEFORE they're needed, they won't learn how to use them. And advice and learning are tools.

Edited to add: So for kids up to the 7th grade or so, it's at least as good as public for many. But after the 8th grade, it gets a little trickier, and maybe a little more should be required of parents than "I kin read as gud as I need to"

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[downwardspiral 0]

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Edited to add: So for kids up to the 7th grade or so, it's at least as good as public for many. But after the 8th grade, it gets a little trickier, and maybe a little more should be required of parents than "I kin read as gud as I need to"

I'm a little surprised you feel that way. Why is it you feel this way? Is there any data that supports your opinion (I'd like to see it) or is it simply an opinion? Did you read the article I linked?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[kelpdiver 2]

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For some reason home schooling is looked down upon. Why do you think that is and what are your thoughts on the subject?

It's frowned upon because we keep seeing the bad examples of it- the bigamist cults, for example, where the girls are trapped in a world with no hope for improvement. (I bet those people don't get tested, aren't part of the metrics you cite)

Then you have active measures by the teachers unions, but that's of course more self serving. That said, there is a difference between a good and bad teacher, and 1:1 or 1:3 ratios doesn't get around that problem. There is no way that my high school education could have been done by more than a handful of parents. K-8, otoh, much easier to do, if you actually have the time/resources to do it.

and that's why test scores look pretty good. The population that is able to dedicate a parent full time (or hire tutors) is a fairly well off one, and test scores correlate rather well with general economic wealth.

[downwardspiral 0]

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and that's why test scores look pretty good. The population that is able to dedicate a parent full time (or hire tutors) is a fairly well off one, and test scores correlate rather well with general economic wealth.

That's the key. But I don't think the test scores have anything to do with household economics. I think it can be directly attributed to the parents participation in their children's education. Economics plays a part in ability not quality.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[FlyingJ 0]

I've had the opportunity to be around a variety of home schooled kids, both as a kid myself and later in life as well. Most of them were educated well beyond what their public/private school peers were for the same age, and a couple even started college up to two years early. That's all great, except that inversely, all but a few of them were YEARS behind their peers socially. They were perfectly comfortable interacting in a more intellectual setting, especially the ones whose home schooled education had been focused in a certain area, but put them out in the real world and they were lost.

I lived in the dorm my freshman year in college with three people that had been home schooled up to that point. It's no surprise to see people away from home for the first time branch out, get their party on, etc, but two of the three took it to a whole new level and had dropped/failed out and were living back at home before the year was over. The other one was 17 years old and never left the dorm room except to go to class.

I'm all for home schooling as an option, as long as parents work hard to make sure that socialization with peers is just as important a part of growing up as book learning.

Killing threads since 2004.

[Andy9o8 0]

My concerns are pretty much the same as Wendy's: the socialization aspect. I haven't researched it much, but I do have my own anecdotal experience to draw from, for whatever that may or may not be worth. I can tell you that most of the teeagers I've come in contact with over the years who've been home-schooled most of their lives were either noticeably immature and naive for their age, or a little bit - how to say it? - odd, or both. Of course academics are very important, but so is full and undelayed socialization. Personally, I think they're equally crucial aspects of a juvenile's education.

[downwardspiral 0]

I agree socialization (is that the correct term?) is highly important in developing a child into an adult. However, what is it the public schooling does differently than home schooling that socializes students and why is this not possible (or at least seen as a possibility) with homeschooling?

pointing back to my original posts....I don't believe it's a problem without a solution.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[SpeedRacer 1]

Not sure about the socialization thing one way or another.

I've known some people who were so traumatized by bullies etc. that they couldn't concentrate in school & skipped a lot. Homeschooling would have been a better option than sending that kid to a place every day where he has to worry about his own safety constantly.

Another thing is: the whole "dumbing down" thing that goes on in many schools.
I've known some very smart people who were home schooled, and didn't have to be dragged down to the level of all the future Jerry Springer Show candidates.

Speed Racer
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[downwardspiral 0]

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Another thing is: the whole "dumbing down" thing that goes on in many schools.
I've known some very smart people who were home schooled, and didn't have to be dragged down to the level of all the future Jerry Springer Show candidates.

With one sentence you just summed up my personal experience with K-12 public education. I was frustrated and bored with school due to grasping the knowledge very quickly while my teachers spent the majority of the class catering to the one freaking student who just could not get it. I got kicked out of class a few times for standing up and calling bullshit.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[shropshire 0]

Different horses for different courses ...

It would have suited some kids but would NOT have suited me (or my Bruv) ... we needed and enjoyed having other kids around us and our folks would not have had the skills to teach us..

Socialisation ( S not Z - I lurned that much at skool ) Is a really important aspect and should NOT be over looked as a 'Nice to have' IMHO. kids NEED to be around other kids.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[downwardspiral 0]

aw shit....you know we are all in trouble when a brit is schooling us!

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[amstalder 0]

I was homeschooled sixth through ninth grade. I was moving around a lot at the time, and just wasnt being challenged in school. It allowed me to work at a lot quicker pace than in a regular classroom setting, so I was able to knock out my eighth and ninth grade work in less than one year.

HOWEVER, I do feel like I was a little behind socially, which is why my parents sent me back to public school my sophomore year of high school.

I graduated at 16, top of my class. I was at the Naval Academy a month after I turned 17......

It was a great option for me, but I think it really depends on the kid and the teachers.


Edit to add: I wasnt behind in my socialization that I couldnt hold a conversation with adults, I just didnt understand what was going through my peers heads or how to interact with them. In all honesty, I am still this way.

[gianna 0]

Home schooling is a tremendous opportunity if done correctly and for the right reasons. I home school both of my children. My oldest daughter is getting ready to go into one of the service academies, has very high SAT and ACT scores and is the Cadet Commander of a Civil Air Patrol squadron. Her Blue and Gold officer is extremely impressed with how well- rounded she is. My youngest daughter has been home schooled for three years, does exceedingly well academically and is also a cadet in the Civil Air Patrol. Not only have both of them excelled in their schooling but they are light-years ahead of a majority of their peers socially (maybe it was spending so much time at the drop zone!). They are well-rounded, well-spoken, respectful and a pleasure to be around. I'm not just boasting - we are told this time and again by their friends' parents, people at the places they work and volunteer, tutors and coaches. For us it's been the best decision we've ever made and socialization has NOT been an issue. In fact, I think schools today are a breeding ground for negative socialization.

[amstalder 0]

Congratulations!!! I hope your daughter enjoys every moment at the Academy. It is such an amazing opportunity!

[ryoder 1,400]

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Not sure about the socialization thing one way or another.

I've known some people who were so traumatized by bullies etc. that they couldn't concentrate in school & skipped a lot. Homeschooling would have been a better option than sending that kid to a place every day where he has to worry about his own safety constantly.

Bingo.
That was my experience in public schooling.
Bullies terrorizing the smaller/weaker kids, and adults almost never around to witness any of it.
It was nothing but mob rule.
Anyone telling me there was value in what I experienced can expect a hostile reply.
It was not until I entered college that I encountered civilized behaviour.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[grimmie 177]

Children are a reflection of their parents. Put good in, get good back. The socialization aspect is a double edged sword. The kids learn a LOT of bad behaviour from classmates as well. I have a friend that home schools two daughters. Amazing kids. They are both in the entertainment industry with cool careers. They also have county wide home school get togethers and field trips with the other kids.
I'll put them up manners, brains and social skills against any poster here in SC...

[downwardspiral 0]

Thank you very much to both of you for your replies. It's certainly interesting to see first hand accounts of successful home schooling.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[kelpdiver 2]

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and that's why test scores look pretty good. The population that is able to dedicate a parent full time (or hire tutors) is a fairly well off one, and test scores correlate rather well with general economic wealth.

That's the key. But I don't think the test scores have anything to do with household economics. I think it can be directly attributed to the parents participation in their children's education. Economics plays a part in ability not quality.

I said correlation, not causation.

Some inner city schools have ridiculously low graduation rates. Household economics is a pretty decent indicator. Another problematic group are recent immigrants who do not speak English.

Neither of these types are common in the home schooling population and both would do very poorly in that learning environment. Meanwhile, if you only looked at test scores for those in public schools that are similar to the home schooled, you'll see the same sorts of high results. At my Orange Co high school, virtually everyone went to college.

[downwardspiral 0]

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and that's why test scores look pretty good. The population that is able to dedicate a parent full time (or hire tutors) is a fairly well off one, and test scores correlate rather well with general economic wealth.

That's the key. But I don't think the test scores have anything to do with household economics. I think it can be directly attributed to the parents participation in their children's education. Economics plays a part in ability not quality.

I said correlation, not causation.

Some inner city schools have ridiculously low graduation rates. Household economics is a pretty decent indicator. Another problematic group are recent immigrants who do not speak English.

Neither of these types are common in the home schooling population and both would do very poorly in that learning environment. Meanwhile, if you only looked at test scores for those in public schools that are similar to the home schooled, you'll see the same sorts of high results. At my Orange Co high school, virtually everyone went to college.

Indicator of what? An indicator that parents who live in the inner city do not care about their childrens education? Or is the inner city a small scale Idiocracy?

Speaking of Orange County or more specifically Huntington Beach....my boss' daughter had filled all requirements for graduation after her junior year. She wanted to take community college courses during her senoir year but the school board wouldn't let her. She was required to sit in a study hall all day on punishment of not graduating. Well she flipped off the establishment, dropped out, aced her GED test, and started college a year early.

This is our public school system.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

Along with academics, society as a whole has a responsibility to provide our youth with a social atmosphere and learning enviorment.

If you homeschool your kid at least have them doing some sort of structured weekly activity; sports, sunday school, etc...

A large number of the homeschooled kids that I've met are -without sounding rude- nerds that lack any sense of satire humor, dating skills, sex education (yeah you can know what the book says, but you know what I mean).

[wmw999 2,149]

Just so you know, I was also home schooled for first and fifth grades. For first grade, there wasn't much downside. For fifth grade, it wasn't as good as the fifth grade I was taking concurrently in the Brazilian school I was also attending.

I haven't read the article, and I will. But I'll stand by my assertion that in the higher grades, whoever does the homeschooling probably ought to know the material, and that in the lower grades, as long as socialization is handled, there's probably not a lot wrong with it.

SAT scores are not the only determinant of success.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[shropshire 0]

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aw shit....you know we are all in trouble when a brit is schooling us!

P.S that would be Brit... now go and stand in the corner for the rest of the lesson.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[nerdgirl 0]

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Another thing is: the whole "dumbing down" thing that goes on in many schools.
I've known some very smart people who were home schooled, and didn't have to be dragged down to the level of all the future Jerry Springer Show candidates.

With one sentence you just summed up my personal experience with K-12 public education. I was frustrated and bored with school due to grasping the knowledge very quickly while my teachers spent the majority of the class catering to the one freaking student who just could not get it. I got kicked out of class a few times for standing up and calling bullshit.

Some of my experiences were similar and some were different. The one time I was kicked out of class was for “insubordination” – I defended what you might have called the “one freaking student who just could not get it.”

It was a week or so before the end of my junior year. Most of the semester the permanent teacher had been out of class for health reasons. We had liked the long-term substitute sub and had ‘bonded’ to some extent as a class. Now as an adult, I can recognize that the permanent teacher was frustrated because the long-term sub hadn’t taught us as much as she was supposed to have … but that wasn’t *our* fault. There was one girl in the class who just struggled with Spanish ... and hadn’t been yet socialized to just stay quiet. She wasn’t ‘dumb’, she just thought differently. The teacher took out some of her frustration, imo, on that one girl one too many times. I thought the teacher was acting like a bully. I stood up for the other student … in that smart-ass way that too-smart-for-lack-of-maturity and too idealistic 16-year old girls can do. (Read: not exactly diplomatically.)

I ended up having an “in-school” suspension for the last week of class and took the final exam in the “in-school” suspension room. Got an “A.” Of course. The “in-school” suspension supervisor was the weightlifting and JV baseball coach, who knew me because I was on the varsity softball team. He seemed confused as to why I was there for one hour a day. He’d tell the other kids to be quiet, stop ‘this’, stop ‘that,’ whereas I’d just come in, I’d read [something] quietly, and leave. The stoners, the burn-outs, and me.

I kept the write-up from the Spanish teacher that I was given after meeting with the vice principal. When I get back to ATL might scan it. “INSOBORDINATION” written in big letters across the top and underlined multiple times. The other fave line: “Is this National Honor Society behavior?” (Iirc, there were a whole bunch of question marks at the end.) The induction had been a week or so before the incident.

While in hindsight I wish my execution was more sophisticated and diplomatic … I was good even back then, but still just a 16-yo girl … I had pride in the choices – recognized they were my choices for which I was responsible with potential consequences – I made then and still do. Stood up against what I saw as bully-like bahavior who was unjustly targeting someone. The “one freaking student who just could not get it” wasn't even my close friend; she just didn't deserve to be treated that way, im-16-yo's idealistic-o.

The other time I got in trouble in high school was when some kid threw something at the bus driver. I grew up in the rural Midwest – long bus rides were normal. I had to have been a sophomore. The bus went back to the high school, and we just sat there. And sat there. And sat there. The twit who did it wasn’t fessing up. I think I had a Girl Scout meeting or something that night … ya know, something real bad-ass -[at myself] … and I just didn’t want to sit there (selfish motive) while we were all being punished for one twit’s actions (idealistic motive). So finally I said “I did it.” And we got to go home.

The next day, I got to meet with the principal. He didn’t think that I had done it. I told him why I said I did. He asked if I knew who did it. I didn’t: I was in the back of the bus; someone toward the front threw something (prolly poorly aimed at another student.)

Most of my public school teachers were fantastic tho!

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[downwardspiral 0]

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Speaking of Orange County or more specifically Huntington Beach....my boss' daughter had filled all requirements for graduation after her junior year. She wanted to take community college courses during her senoir year but the school board wouldn't let her. She was required to sit in a study hall all day on punishment of not graduating. Well she flipped off the establishment, dropped out, aced her GED test, and started college a year early.

This is our public school system.

Correction: My memory is terrible sometimes.

She only needed one class to graduate. She wanted to take college classes the rest of the day which she was denied for whatever reason.

www.FourWheelerHB.com