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RonD1120

No Such Thing as Free Health Care

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I know someone who's been trying to get an ultrasound for about three months. Yes, she has insurance. All the ultrasounds labs are either busy, or won't work with her other doctors or hospitals.

But, like Ron likes to say, anecdotes do not equal data.

And as far as Ron's data: 2-10 hours in Canada and an average of 3.75 hours in the US are entirely consistent with my statement that wait times are similar.

I'll put my crack pipe down when you take a chill pill.

- Dan G

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Interesting thread,,,Up here in Canada we have a health care sysytem that sort off works. When you get injured or sick you go to the hospital / doctor, show them your government issued health card at the hospital or wait 4-6 weeks for a doctor appointment. At the hospital, depending on the severity of your illness or injury expect to wait anywheres from 2-10 hours, depending on how busy they are. or go to a local health clinic (when they're open) for non emergencies, wait 1-4 hours, get treated and go home. if you need an ultrasound, wait 4-6 weeks, mri ,wait 2-4 months , if not more.



Wait times like that are typical in the US, too.



This is just a piece of crap generalization statement on your part. WAJ
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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I know someone who's been trying to get an ultrasound for about three months. Yes, she has insurance. All the ultrasounds labs are either busy, or won't work with her other doctors or hospitals.

But, like Ron likes to say, anecdotes do not equal data.

And as far as Ron's data: 2-10 hours in Canada and an average of 3.75 hours in the US are entirely consistent with my statement that wait times are similar.

I'll put my crack pipe down when you take a chill pill.



There are always exceptions, situations and extremes. You use them here. Not the norm however
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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It's not "free". John paid for it, by serving in the military.



John did not 'pay for it' by serving in the military. serving in the military does not generate revenue.

WE ALL PAID FOR IT, because he served in the military.

And you know what? What is good for him is good for the rest of us. What is good for our Congress members, our President, all those filthy stinking rich CEO's is also good for the rest of us.

Sick to fucking death of paying for health care for others? Well guess what - you already do. All we are saying is that if EVERYONE is going to pay for health care for a few, then EVERYONE can freaking well pay for health care for EVERYONE.

I have no idea where the 'free healthcare' idea came from - 'cause it certainly never came from any of the proponents for single payer. Everyone already knew that it was going to cost money - everyone knew that everyone was going to have to be paid for by everybody.

Only the people against it 'demonized' the proposition by making it so-called 'free', therefore making the users 'free-loaders'

single payer, paid for by everyone, thorough the tax base. done deal.

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It's not "free". John paid for it, by serving in the military.



John did not 'pay for it' by serving in the military. serving in the military does not generate revenue.

WE ALL PAID FOR IT, because he served in the military.

And you know what? What is good for him is good for the rest of us. What is good for our Congress members, our President, all those filthy stinking rich CEO's is also good for the rest of us.

Sick to fucking death of paying for health care for others? Well guess what - you already do. All we are saying is that if EVERYONE is going to pay for health care for a few, then EVERYONE can freaking well pay for health care for EVERYONE.

I have no idea where the 'free healthcare' idea came from - 'cause it certainly never came from any of the proponents for single payer. Everyone already knew that it was going to cost money - everyone knew that everyone was going to have to be paid for by everybody.

Only the people against it 'demonized' the proposition by making it so-called 'free', therefore making the users 'free-loaders'

single payer, paid for by everyone, thorough the tax base. done deal.



Too bad that's not the plan that passed the house. Never was, from the time they started writing it.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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As opposed to the piece of crap generalizations about Canada's system, which, since they support your preconceived notions, you have no problem with.

What the fuck ever.


At least YOU know your statements are not defendable
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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And you know what? What is good for him is good for the rest of us.



He put something in to get something back. If you want his healthcare then go earn it instead of throwing a temper tantrum about "what's good enough for you."

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What is good for our Congress members, our President, all those filthy stinking rich CEO's is also good for the rest of us.



Go buy a plan that all of those stinking rich CEO's pay for and you can have it.


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Sick to fucking death of paying for health care for others? Well guess what - you already do.



Well... those who pay their bills and their taxes pay for it.

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All we are saying is that if EVERYONE is going to pay for health care for a few, then EVERYONE can freaking well pay for health care for EVERYONE.



A. Not everyone pays. Not even close to everyone

B. Not everyone will get the government run healthcare. Not even close to everyone.


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everyone knew that everyone was going to have to be paid for by everybody.



One more time... Not everyone pays. Not even close. The way this system will work is tax or "fine" the shit out of some to subsidize the rest. Everyone doesn't pay and everyone doesn't benefit.


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Only the people against it 'demonized' the proposition by making it so-called 'free', therefore making the users 'free-loaders'



It will be free for some. It will be free for them because others will be taxed and fined to pay for it. It's not demonizing. It's how the bill was written.

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single payer, paid for by everyone, thorough the tax base. done deal.



Dude, the tax base isn't paid for by everyone. Not even close to everyone. The new taxes and fines will not be paid for by everyone. Not even close to everyone. What do you not understand about the tax system that makes you think everyone pays?

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

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Here's a list of numbers: 6, 2, 3, 2, 4, 3, 2, 10, 5, 2, 3, 4, 2

Can you describe this list? You might say the average is 3.7. You might also say that the numbers range from 2 to 10.

BOTH WOULD BE CORRECT FOR THE SAME FUCKING LIST!!!

Yes, I'm yelling because apparently you don't want to hear anything that doesn't fit your worldview.

Please also note that I never said that I prefer that the US have a system similar to Canada's. All I said was that the wait times listed by the Canadian poster are also typical in the current US system.

- Dan G

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John did not 'pay for it' by serving in the military. serving in the military does not generate revenue.



Yes, he did.

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WE ALL PAID FOR IT, because he served in the military.



Using that logic, we all already pay for your HC since we use your employer, and you all have paid for my civilian care since I am sure you have all shipped a package. Bad logic.

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And you know what? What is good for him is good for the rest of us.



Yep, you want what he EARNED???? Join the Army just like he did.

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I have no idea where the 'free healthcare' idea came from



Well when you look at the data that says 91m people do not currently pay Federal Taxes and that it is expected to grow to 41% of people not paying taxes.... If would be FREE for them.... Unless you plan on taxing them?

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http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1410.html

During 2006, Tax Foundation economists estimate that roughly 43.4 million tax returns, representing 91 million individuals, will face a zero or negative tax liability. That's out of a total of 136 million federal tax returns that will be filed. Adding to this figure the 15 million households and individuals who file no tax return at all, roughly 121 million Americans—or 41 percent of the U.S. population—will be completely outside the federal income tax system in 2006.1 This total includes those who pay no tax, and those who pay some tax upfront and are later refunded the full amount of the tax paid or more.



So, unless you plan on taxing people who are currently not paying anything.... then it is free for some.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Here's a list of numbers: 6, 2, 3, 2, 4, 3, 2, 10, 5, 2, 3, 4, 2

Can you describe this list? You might say the average is 3.7. You might also say that the numbers range from 2 to 10.

BOTH WOULD BE CORRECT FOR THE SAME FUCKING LIST!!!

Yes, I'm yelling because apparently you don't want to hear anything that doesn't fit your worldview.

Please also note that I never said that I prefer that the US have a system similar to Canada's. All I said was that the wait times listed by the Canadian poster are also typical in the current US system.



You listed a "typical" wait time. I threw the bull shit flag and you dont like that.

To bad for you I guess
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Dude, you're rebutting my anectode with words you put in other people's mouths. WTF?

Here, I'll try it out on you: I call bullshit on your argument, so would George Washington, Confusious, and Jesus Christ.

But you obviously know more about it than they do.

And as far as the VA goes, I ruptured my eardrum this summer and called the VA to get an appointment with an ENT. Since I hadn't seen my primary care doctor there in over a year, I had to be reassigned to a new one (just getting assigned took a week), go in for an initial physical (one month wait even though when I actually went in I was the only patient in the whole Group there) and then let him make an appointment for me at ENT (another month or so). I went to my civilian doctor instead, but it still took two weeks to see a specialist.

- Dan G

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Dude, you're rebutting my anectode with words you put in other people's mouths. WTF?

Here, I'll try it out on you: I call bullshit on your argument, so would George Washington, Confusious, and Jesus Christ.

But you obviously know more about it than they do.

And as far as the VA goes, I ruptured my eardrum this summer and called the VA to get an appointment with an ENT. Since I hadn't seen my primary care doctor there in over a year, I had to be reassigned to a new one (just getting assigned took a week), go in for an initial physical (one month wait even though when I actually went in I was the only patient in the whole Group there) and then let him make an appointment for me at ENT (another month or so). I went to my civilian doctor instead, but it still took two weeks to see a specialist.



Again dude. Taking what you said here to be true. SHIT happens. YOUR post puts this as the norm. The bull shit flags fly yet again[:/]
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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You don't understand basic math, do you?



Not yours that is for fucking sure



So are you admitting that you don't know how to calculate an average, or that you don't know that 3.7 is in the range 2 through 10?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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He just might be better at math than you.



Possibly. But given the evidence in this thread, I highly doubt it.



Rush just admitted that he doesn't understand simple math.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Dude, you're rebutting my anectode with words you put in other people's mouths. WTF?

Here, I'll try it out on you: I call bullshit on your argument, so would George Washington, Confusious, and Jesus Christ.

But you obviously know more about it than they do.

And as far as the VA goes, I ruptured my eardrum this summer and called the VA to get an appointment with an ENT. Since I hadn't seen my primary care doctor there in over a year, I had to be reassigned to a new one (just getting assigned took a week), go in for an initial physical (one month wait even though when I actually went in I was the only patient in the whole Group there) and then let him make an appointment for me at ENT (another month or so). I went to my civilian doctor instead, but it still took two weeks to see a specialist.



Using your above anecdotal examples:

Military medicine (controlled by government) Will take 2mos and a week.

Civilian side of the house. 2 weeks.

Which do you think is better?

(and ... the wait time on an ultrasound?! I would need a bit more information on that. What I SUSPECT that story is about is that it is possibly a follow up ultrasound to be done in the future. I HIGHLY doubt that it would take that long to get an ultrasound. In my clinic, I have a machine down the hall, or we have two facilities that we can refer to OR the ER is right in the attached hospital. I would need more information on the case that you mentioned... but I think the bullshit flag was rightfully thrown)

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Dude: Cheri had a bike accident, called the police then called me from her cell, I was only a few minutes away and beat he police there. put her in my car and drove to my near by doctor. Called from my cell on the way and the Dr meet us as we can into to the building. The Dr was cleaning and sowing in less than a couple of minutes. We did not even stop to fill out paper work. the cleark handed it to us and we filled it out after the fact.

Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time...

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