dreamdancer 0 #1 June 15, 2009 The Prisoner's Dilemma QuoteTwo suspects are arrested by the police. The police have insufficient evidence for a conviction, and, having separated both prisoners, visit each of them to offer the same deal. If one testifies (defects from the other) for the prosecution against the other and the other remains silent (cooperates with the other), the betrayer goes free and the silent accomplice receives the full 10-year sentence. If both remain silent, both prisoners are sentenced to only six months in jail for a minor charge. If each betrays the other, each receives a five-year sentence. Each prisoner must choose to betray the other or to remain silent. Each one is assured that the other would not know about the betrayal before the end of the investigation. How should the prisoners act? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemmastay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalslug 31 #2 June 15, 2009 Could you perhaps elaborate on why this is a "great experiment" ? Do you want to test game theory on a community forum? To what end? With respect to "Albert W. Tucker", the legal analogy is a poor one anyway. Troll dude... troll. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #3 June 15, 2009 Quote Could you perhaps elaborate on why this is a "great experiment" ? Troll dude... troll. this experiment is a great introduction to game theory - from which many of the cold war tactics grew from (which choice would you make)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carmenc 0 #4 June 15, 2009 Just found this? You are only 59 years late. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #5 June 15, 2009 QuoteJust found this? You are only 59 years late. Well, it takes a while for things to reach alternet,org.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #6 June 15, 2009 How about Zimbardo's experiment - "The Stanford Prison?" It shows how those in authority tend to act out on it, and that situations wherein individualism is lost. The "guards" were to totally control them. After an initial period of rebellion the prisoners became inhibited and accepted the abuse of those in power. This, of course, is how governments work best. Create in people the sense that they are not individuals (individualism is a bad word to the left - we are but pieces of a society they wish to contrust) and become dependent on their abusers. Those in leadership roles can recall that the prisoners would accept parole even if it meant losing their pay, but simply accepted that their parole was denied and did not leave the experiment. We can see the Stockholm syndrome, where people view their captors with loyaty. Sure, the captors took them and stripped them of freedom, but they are the providers now. We see these sorts of things in government all the time. Strip people of their individuality and willpower and they will merely go along with things. Eventually, they will side with the government. My thoughts are that I don't view a society without dissent as healthy at all. I can think of only one place - North Korea - where the anecdotes of everyone who visit are that not only is there no dissent, but no underlying dissent. People there are now actually mindless drones! Which, to me, is the epitome of what a government hopes to achieve. You've cited the "prisoner's dillemma." Which is interesting, to me. The threshhold issue is, "Who are the players?" As you are aware, in the dilemma are two citizens and the government! Will the government suffer? No. But the government wants to do what it can to get the suspects working against each other, thus maximizing the control it can have over both. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #7 June 15, 2009 Quote How about Zimbardo's experiment - "The Stanford Prison?" It shows how those in authority tend to act out on it, and that situations wherein individualism is lost. The "guards" were to totally control them. After an initial period of rebellion the prisoners became inhibited and accepted the abuse of those in power. yep, that's on the thread list - a classic experiment stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #8 June 15, 2009 Another classic problem is the trolley problem, a problem with a lot of analogs in medical and emergent decisionmaking. A warning - there are people on SC who REALLY don't like thought experiments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #9 June 15, 2009 Quote You've cited the "prisoner's dillemma." Which is interesting, to me. The threshhold issue is, "Who are the players?" As you are aware, in the dilemma are two citizens and the government! Will the government suffer? No. But the government wants to do what it can to get the suspects working against each other, thus maximizing the control it can have over both. up to a fifth of prisoners convicted in the us system are estimated to be victims of this scenario stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 June 16, 2009 QuoteThe Prisoner's Dilemma QuoteTwo suspects are arrested by the police. The police have insufficient evidence for a conviction, and, having separated both prisoners, visit each of them to offer the same deal. If one testifies (defects from the other) for the prosecution against the other and the other remains silent (cooperates with the other), the betrayer goes free and the silent accomplice receives the full 10-year sentence. If both remain silent, both prisoners are sentenced to only six months in jail for a minor charge. If each betrays the other, each receives a five-year sentence. Each prisoner must choose to betray the other or to remain silent. Each one is assured that the other would not know about the betrayal before the end of the investigation. How should the prisoners act? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma I like scenarios - but the whole pitch to the thing assumes neither would just choose to tell the truth. Assumes neither prisoner has a lawyer to tell them the case against them is insubstantial, etc. anyway - "how should the defendants act?" I'd say don't break the law in the first place. I'd say the real moral issue in the scenario is the cops lying to the prisoners - that's the discussion topic. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #11 June 26, 2009 Double-Slit Experiment QuoteThe most baffling part of this experiment comes when only one photon at a time is fired at the barrier with both slits open. The pattern of interference remains the same, as can be seen if many photons are emitted one at a time and recorded on the same sheet of photographic film. The clear implication is that something with a wavelike nature passes simultaneously through both slits and interferes with itself — even though there is only one photon present. (The experiment works with electrons, atoms, and even some molecules too.) "Richard Feynman was fond of saying that all of quantum mechanics can be gleaned from carefully thinking through the implications of this single experiment." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experimentstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #12 June 26, 2009 Quote Double-Slit Experiment Quote "Richard Feynman was fond of saying that all of quantum mechanics can be gleaned from carefully thinking through the implications of this single experiment." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment Feynman was also fond of working physics problems at Pasadena strip clubs ... gives a somewhat different connotation of a 'Double Slit Experiment' eh? [Did I just type that? ] Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #13 June 26, 2009 an experiment most men could..uh...get into. www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #14 June 27, 2009 Quote Quote Double-Slit Experiment Quote "Richard Feynman was fond of saying that all of quantum mechanics can be gleaned from carefully thinking through the implications of this single experiment." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment Feynman was also fond of working physics problems at Pasadena strip clubs ... gives a somewhat different connotation of a 'Double Slit Experiment' eh? [Did I just type that? ] you're a very dirty girl (i think he played the bongo drums as well)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #15 June 27, 2009 Dirt ... that suggests geophysics more than traditional, solid-state, or quantum physics. What would be the greatest experiment in geophysics? My initial nominee is whatever led to development of theory of plate techtonics. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #16 June 29, 2009 People of all ages had marveled for quite some time how some of the continents could be fitted together like a jigsaw puzzle. It wasn't until the mechanics were figured out that the experts admitted it was possible." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #17 June 29, 2009 The movie Das Experiment was a good fictional work based on said Stanford Experiment, and it available to watch immediately for Netflix subscribers. Das Experiment. Hollywood is going to start filming an American version this month, starring Elijah Wood, Forest Whitaker and a few other big names.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
