Pelosi calls work site raids un-american

[bodypilot90 0]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/18/pelosi-tells-illegal-immigrants-work-site-raids-american/

She's out of touch with real people

[piper17 1]

Typical. Congress passes all sorts of laws and then does nothing to enforce them. Of course, I could say the same thing about Congress and other politicians and taxes...they want everyone but themselves to pay taxes.

If she doesn't like immigration laws, why doesn't she pass legislation to change them. She IS the speaker of the house and the Dems hold the House, the Senate, and the White House. What's her excuse? Probably because she knows it will piss off the majority of the CITIZENS in the country.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[DanG 1]

Actually, the article quotes her as saying tearing families apart is un-American.

The actual quote appears to have been, "Who in this country would not want to change a policy of kicking in doors in the middle of the night and sending a parent away from their families?...It must be stopped....What value system is that? I think it's un-American. I think it's un-American."

Fox News just chose to intepret her comments quite loosely, thus the headline, "enforcement of immigration laws in the United States is 'un-American.'"

But I wouldn't expect Fox to dig past a sensationalist headline.

- Dan G

[Beachbum 0]

Quote

But I wouldn't expect Fox to dig past a sensationalist headline.

That pretty much applies to almost all media these days, it seems. Good reason to take anything you read/see from them with a grain (or many) or salt!! Money and agendas are more important than accurate, balanced, factual reporting, right??? ...

Edited to remove a misplaced "not"!

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[billvon 2,463]

>the article quotes her as saying tearing families apart is un-American.

That's exactly right! American families are un-American and need to be torn apart! People who think they should be left alone are out of touch.

[TomAiello 25]

I think Nancy Pelosi is one of the greatest threats to freedom in America today.

In this case though, I pretty much agree with her, much as it pains me to say that. Immigration is one of the foundational values of our society. So is respect for family. Our immigration policy (not to mention our work ethic) needs some serious re-examination.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[piper17 1]

Immigration is one of the foundations of this country but breaking the immigration laws to do so is not. If the laws need to be changed, change them but don't condone the actions of lawbreakers.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[TomAiello 25]

An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so.

I believe that Americans have a right, and a responsibility, to disobey unjust actions of the government.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

>the article quotes her as saying tearing families apart is un-American.

That's exactly right! American families are un-American and need to be torn apart! People who think they should be left alone are out of touch.

Since these were families of illegal aliens, aren't they un-American families?

[billvon 2,463]

>Since these were families of illegal aliens, aren't they un-American
>families?

Well, let's see what Americans think:

=============
One proposal that has been discussed in Congress would allow illegal immigrants who have been living and working in the United States for a number of years, and who do not have a criminal record, to start on a path to citizenship by registering that they are in the country, paying a fine, getting fingerprinted, and learning English, among other requirements. Do you support or oppose this, or haven't you heard enough about it to say?

Support 60
Oppose 15

CNN, 6/22-24, 2007
============

Sounds like they think they're pretty American. (Or perhaps it means that 60% of Americans are out-of-touch, anti-American Americans.)

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

"Who in this country would not want to change a policy of kicking in doors in the middle of the night and sending a parent away from their families?...

Okay. New law. Crimes committed by persons with families shall not be arrested or imprisoned.

Madoff? Was taken from his home - ripping his family apart. How UnAmerican!

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[masterrig 1]

Pelosi is out of touch with reality! I think, her 'position' as house speaker has gone to her head. We have immigration laws for a reason. Has she totally forgotten 9/11? I see absolutely nothing wrong with raids on businesses to gather-up illegal aliens. They are here illegally and if, they can't go through the proper channels toward citizenship... remove them from this country. What I really don't understand is WHY, we cater so much and bend-over backwards for illegal aliens?


Chuck

[SivaGanesha 2]

Quote

=============
One proposal that has been discussed in Congress would allow illegal immigrants who have been living and working in the United States for a number of years, and who do not have a criminal record, to start on a path to citizenship by registering that they are in the country, paying a fine, getting fingerprinted, and learning English, among other requirements. Do you support or oppose this, or haven't you heard enough about it to say?

Support 60
Oppose 15

CNN, 6/22-24, 2007
============

The poll question doesn't honestly reflect the law, because in order to work illegally in the USA, many illegal immigrants have used false identity papers. In some cases--no one knows how often--this has caused specific suffering to individual American families whose identity has been stolen.

OTOH some illegal immigrants probably work largely under the table and so may not have committed any crime other than entering the country illegally in the first place.

The poll also was conducted in June, 2007, and refers to legalizing people who have been here for "years". However, at the time Congress was seriously considering legislation that would have legalized anyone who had been here only for a few months (since Jan 1, 2007, only a few months before the poll was taken). Hence it doesn't accurately portray the true nature of the legislation Congress was considering.

Additionally the poll refers to a "path to citizenship" but doesn't delve into detail on some important facets of US citizenship law. US citizenship is specifically denied to those who have committed past crimes as well as to those who have ever falsely claimed US citizenship. Therefore to create a "path to citizenship" these requirements would need to be waived in some instances for former illegal immigrants. Neither the poll nor the legislation really addressed how widespread a waiver would be granted. If someone's only crime is fraud in using false documents to claim employment rights, is that grounds for denial of citizenship? What if they also conveniently don't pay US taxes under their false identity? What if they vote illegally? Or fraudulently obtain credit cards?

This poll tries to paint a picture of the typical illegal immigrant being someone who made the single mistake of entering years ago without documentation and has otherwise abided by the law. That picture may be correct in some instances but is not an honest reflection of the whole story. Many have--by necessity--been committing further crimes, some of which cause real suffering, to support their stay in the USA. The legislation was silent on how to address such issues.

OTOH it is not realistic to try to deport 11 million illegal aliens. Legislation is required to address this situation for sure. But comprehensive immigration reform must face the politically very difficult fact that many of these illegal immigrants have committed repeated crimes to maintain their fraudulent identities, and must decide how harshly or leniently to deal with that fact in particular situations.

The legislation that Congress was considering when this poll was conducted swept most of these issues under the rug and was quite properly defeated. OTOH it is possible I could support truly comprehensive immigration reform--but the only legislation that I could ever support would be a law that faced, and made tough, politically unpopular decisions on both sides of this very complex issue.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Support 60
Oppose 15

CNN, 6/22-24, 2007
============

Sounds like they think they're pretty American. (Or perhaps it means that 60% of Americans are out-of-touch, anti-American Americans.)

Polling in the midst of the recession will generate results radically different from that of summer of 2007.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Pelosi is out of touch with reality! I think, her 'position' as house speaker has gone to her head. We have immigration laws for a reason. Has she totally forgotten 9/11? I see absolutely nothing wrong with raids on businesses to gather-up illegal aliens. They are here illegally and if, they can't go through the proper channels toward citizenship... remove them from this country. What I really don't understand is WHY, we cater so much and bend-over backwards for illegal aliens?


Chuck

I think you are missing a bigger point. Is there anybody on the planet in a better position to change the laws she believes are unjust? Say "No" and you are correct - the Speaker of the House Probably has more sway in changing federal laws than, say, you or me or some random senator.

P.s. - I have no citation to a scientific study that proves my assertion.

But instead of saying, "These are the laws I'm pushing through" she deflects blame to the executive branch.

Swell of her, ain't it?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[BikerBabe 0]

Quote

Pelosi is out of touch with reality! I think, her 'position' as house speaker has gone to her head. We have immigration laws for a reason. Has she totally forgotten 9/11? I see absolutely nothing wrong with raids on businesses to gather-up illegal aliens. They are here illegally and if, they can't go through the proper channels toward citizenship... remove them from this country. What I really don't understand is WHY, we cater so much and bend-over backwards for illegal aliens?

Because there's no incentive. Do you HONESTLY think that raiding businesses and arresting the aliens is going to change things? What i want to know is...why aren't they raiding said businesses and CLOSING THEM DOWN? Target the true source of the problem.

You know who that is? The business owners, farmers, and yes, even your average American who is used to super-cheap goods and services. Until you change those minds...there's never going to be a "fix" to the problem. However, it's much much easier to blame and punish the ones who are different from us, right?

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

Pelosi is out of touch with reality! I think, her 'position' as house speaker has gone to her head. We have immigration laws for a reason. Has she totally forgotten 9/11? I see absolutely nothing wrong with raids on businesses to gather-up illegal aliens. They are here illegally and if, they can't go through the proper channels toward citizenship... remove them from this country. What I really don't understand is WHY, we cater so much and bend-over backwards for illegal aliens?


Chuck

I think you are missing a bigger point. Is there anybody on the planet in a better position to change the laws she believes are unjust? Say "No" and you are correct - the Speaker of the House Probably has more sway in changing federal laws than, say, you or me or some random senator.

P.s. - I have no citation to a scientific study that proves my assertion.

But instead of saying, "These are the laws I'm pushing through" she deflects blame to the executive branch.

Swell of her, ain't it?

She's really something!


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

Pelosi is out of touch with reality! I think, her 'position' as house speaker has gone to her head. We have immigration laws for a reason. Has she totally forgotten 9/11? I see absolutely nothing wrong with raids on businesses to gather-up illegal aliens. They are here illegally and if, they can't go through the proper channels toward citizenship... remove them from this country. What I really don't understand is WHY, we cater so much and bend-over backwards for illegal aliens?

Because there's no incentive. Do you HONESTLY think that raiding businesses and arresting the aliens is going to change things? What i want to know is...why aren't they raiding said businesses and CLOSING THEM DOWN? Target the true source of the problem.

As I understand the law, the businesses are levied fines for hiring illegals. As for closing-down the businesses, that's a great idea!

You know who that is? The business owners, farmers, and yes, even your average American who is used to super-cheap goods and services. Until you change those minds...there's never going to be a "fix" to the problem. However, it's much much easier to blame and punish the ones who are different from us, right?

If, the ones who are different from us are 'illegally here'... why not! As for changing those minds, put enough pressure on them and I believe, they'll change their thinking. The problem is, we are too soft on them and just enforce the immigration laws all willy-nilly. Those who enter this country illegally, know that and the problem continues. I don't feel that making new laws will do a bit of good. We need to really enforce the ones we have.


Chuck

[SivaGanesha 2]

Quote

However, it's much much easier to blame and punish the ones who are different from us, right?

What seems to be proving to be difficult is for America to make a choice here. America has a couple of high level choices that can be made here (with infinite nuances due to the complexity of the issue). Either choice would be honorable. Being wishy-washy because politicians don't have the courage to commit to a choice is much less honorable IMHO.

If Americans want cheap products and services, with the caveat that some lower-paying jobs may go to foreign citizens and not Americans during a deep recession, then America should move to legalize many of the currently illegal workers in the country.

If Americans want to preserve jobs for Americans during a difficult economic period, then it is time for America to tell the illegal immigrants to leave.

America and Americans are within their rights to make either choice. To fail to choose, however, creates a class of people with little or no ability to exercise their basic human rights and creates a human rights time bomb.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[BikerBabe 0]

didn't say anything about making new laws.

I guess i'll ask you then. How much are you willing to pay for a head of lettuce? a pound of tomatoes? A meal at your favorite restaurant?

$2 for the lettuce?
$5 for the tomatoes?
$50 for the meal?

Mind you i am NOT making a judgment here as to the rightness or wrongness of paying illegals lower than min wage. I am asking, do you really think americans are willing to put their money where their mouths are? Are YOU?

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

didn't say anything about making new laws.

I guess i'll ask you then. How much are you willing to pay for a head of lettuce? a pound of tomatoes? A meal at your favorite restaurant?

$2 for the lettuce?
$5 for the tomatoes?
$50 for the meal?

Mind you i am NOT making a judgment here as to the rightness or wrongness of paying illegals lower than min wage. I am asking, do you really think Americans are willing to put their money where their mouths are? Are YOU?

I'm just horrified that this could wipe out the landscaping industry in the US. Are you willing to pay $100 a pop to have 3 guys busily leaf-blower the dust from your side of the street to the other? Sort of puts it all in perspective, doesn't it?

[masterrig 1]

I threw that in there, in regard to new laws.

Rather than using illegals, we should bring about or bring back a 'worker program' where they come her and work and when the job is done, they go back to their native country. Just letting people enter this country illegally and allowing them to stay is just wrong. As for them just coming here to pick lettuce is a crock of crap. The truth of the matter is, they have it pre-arranged to sneak into this country and head for the big cities and get the better paying jobs. We make it real easy for them to do just that. I recall a time when, construction jobs were sought after by U.S. citizens because it payed good. Now, that's beneath us and we're damned sure not going to pick peaches. We are rapidly approaching a point where this country is just running out of room to take in all the people of Mexico, Central and South America. As for paying more for a head of lettuce? Yes! Some how or another, it'll fit into my budget or, I can do without it. It boils down to the fact that this country has too many folks who are not willing to do manual labor jobs. Maybe, that's why we have so many obese people.


Chuck

[piper17 1]

Raiding businesses employing illegals has already been shown to work as many illegals are returning to their country of origin. The recession is contributing to this as well.

Fining or jailing (repeat offenders) employers of illegal aliens is being done but not nearly to the degree is should be. The federal government also has an electronic checking system available to employers to check the residency status of potential employees. My company uses it before it hires anyone...and it works.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[piper17 1]

So, we all have the right to decide what are just laws and what are unjust and then choose what laws we want to obey. Yep, that'll work just fine!

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[ncjumpjunkie 0]

Quote

An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so.

I believe that Americans have a right, and a responsibility, to disobey unjust actions of the government.

Thats right "Americans" have that right NOT ILLEGAL'S. They aren't citizens they have only the rights of the country that they are from. When I travel abroad if I break a law from another country I'am at the mercey of the laws of the country Iam in,,,,my US Freedoms don't follow me were ever I go.

SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3
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