councilman24 36 #26 March 18, 2009 55 gr. FMJ, $410/1000, was farther down. But all were unavailable due to a lack of components. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #27 March 18, 2009 Most people who like to shoot at use use ak 47s and not the M 16 so cheap reloads of the .223 on the market really shouldn't be that big of a dealDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nelyubin 0 #28 March 18, 2009 QuoteThe casings involved are suitable for re-manufacturing and have been sold for that purpose for many years. Then it's just nonsense. Perhaps corruption. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #29 March 18, 2009 People who own guns aren't stupid. If you can't get ammo a rifle or pistol is worthless. I don't think it's too far fetched to think that gun control advocates will go after ammo sales if they can't control the sale of weapons. This is more than hype or a conspiracy theory. Someone mentioned that ammo stored for a while might not be any good. I've fired ammo that was forty years old and it fired fine. If you keep it relatively moisture free and at a fairly constant temperature it should be fine. There was also mention that reloads aren't as good as factory ammo....The main reason I reload is that I can end up with ammo that is more accurate than factory ammo. My reloads are fine tuned to each rifle for superior accuracy. If you shoot an automatic pistol you have to be very careful on resizing. I like factory ammo better for that. And yes, you can save money on reloading. If you factor in you time, your savings may not be very great....Right now. But then again, who knows what a box of ammo may cost in the future. I can't believe the price of ammo right now. I don't see it going down any. That's another reason I'm stocking up..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #30 March 18, 2009 Quote...it wouldn't really work for that. No ammo hoarder worth his M855 is going to buy a can of reloads to store. Why do you think that reloads are not going to survive long-term storage, compared to commercial ammo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #31 March 18, 2009 QuoteSomeone mentioned that ammo stored for a while might not be any good. I've fired ammo that was forty years old and it fired fine. If you keep it relatively moisture free and at a fairly constant temperature it should be fine. Ditto on that. I'm still using up a case of .45 ammo from WWII, that fires every time. Recently I found some .308 cartridges buried in the bottom of a creek. I took them home, and took one apart to check it out. Despite years of immersion in water, the powder was dry and burned, and the primer still flashed. There may be an expiration date on military ammo, but for civilian target shooting purposes, that ammo is still good to go for decades. QuoteThere was also mention that reloads aren't as good as factory ammo....The main reason I reload is that I can end up with ammo that is more accurate than factory ammo. My reloads are fine tuned to each rifle for superior accuracy. Ditto again. Reloads are not only cheaper, but can also be more accurate. Commercial ammo has to be made to shoot relatively well in numerous different guns, with different barrel lengths, different types of rifling grooves, and so on. So it's kind of a "jack of all trades, master of none" manufacturing philosophy. Reloads, on the other hand, are the master of one specific rifle. Just this weekend I shot my U.S. Model 1917 rifle in a 600-yard match. The first 20 shots for score, I fired government Lake City M2 ammo, and scored a 129 (out of 200), which is rather horrible. After that, I used my own reloads, and my score jumped up to 159. Only one shot was outside the black. Still nothing fantastic, but for that old rifle, at that distance, using iron sights with no windage adjustment, that wasn't too shabby. And reloads made the difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #32 March 18, 2009 Quote That's not regulating ammo out of existence. That is regulating what happens to spent cartridges used by DoD. Nobody ever said 3rd parties had a right to cheap used cartridges. Face it, the ammo shortage is being caused by people hoarding, not government regulation. Ok, some might say it's FEAR of regulation, but that's not the same AS regulation. I agree with Quade. Not everything is evidence of an anti gun conspiracy in the new government. I am a balanced guy, belonging to both the NRA and ACLU. I just like the US Constitution (A LOT!!!) and unfortunately it needs hired help to protect it. I can't depend on my legislators to do the job. The ACLU fights for the first, fourth and fourteenth amendments and the NRA fights for the second amendment. I wonder if anyone else besides me on dropzone.com belongs to both organizations? Doubt it. I have a good friend who thinks Obama is going to impose martial law (he says in June 09, so get ready ) etc etc. He has bought TONS of ammo in preparation for his imagined Armageddon. All it takes is a few thousand similar minded ammo hoarders and good old supply and demand equations kick in. The clerk at my local guns/sporting goods store said he has never seen so many large multi box ammo purchases by individuals. They are loving it. Blue skies, 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #33 March 18, 2009 QuoteQuote...it wouldn't really work for that. No ammo hoarder worth his M855 is going to buy a can of reloads to store. Why do you think that reloads are not going to survive long-term storage, compared to commercial ammo? It's not the storage, it's the ammo. Leaving aside precision handloads (because most people lack the skill and equipment to create them), in a real SHTF type scenario, I (and I expect most people) would want a good factory load, mostly for reliability. The mass reloads (like the "canned heat" discussed in the link) are for plinking/training. In a real defense situation, which is what long term storage is generally about, top notch factory loads are, in my opinion, the way to go.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #34 March 18, 2009 QuoteI wonder if anyone else besides me on dropzone.com belongs to both organizations? Me. I also belong to several others. My personal favorite is The Institute for Justice, but I have to give props to The Institute for Humane Studies because I met my wife at one of their programs, back when I was young. I think someone needs to start a 9th amendment group, personally.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #35 March 18, 2009 377, I don't think I'm much different than you. I voted for Obama because I felt there are bigger issues on the plate than just gun control. I have friends who vote for whichever candidate support gun rights, on that issue alone. I've heard some scary things about Obama in terms of gun control. He says he's not out to take your guns away, but who knows what his agenda is really about. To tell you the truth, I don't fear him as much as I do the down turn in our economy. I'm not preaching that the end is near, or anything like that. But who knows what direction we are headed. The so called experts can't even figure that one out. My fear is that I may not have ammo to shoot at a reasonable price, in the future. As a reloader, all I have to do is store some bullets, primers, powder, and a little brass. No, I'm not stockpiling tons of the stuff..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #36 March 18, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote...it wouldn't really work for that. No ammo hoarder worth his M855 is going to buy a can of reloads to store. Why do you think that reloads are not going to survive long-term storage, compared to commercial ammo? It's not the storage, it's the ammo. Leaving aside precision handloads (because most people lack the skill and equipment to create them), in a real SHTF type scenario, I (and I expect most people) would want a good factory load, mostly for reliability. The mass reloads (like the "canned heat" discussed in the link) are for plinking/training. In a real defense situation, which is what long term storage is generally about, top notch factory loads are, in my opinion, the way to go. Well, I'm going to have to disagree a bit on this one. I've had commercial ammo fail to fire. I don't trust it completely, but failures are indeed rare. My latest example of that was military grade .30 Carbine ammo, which had primers so hard that 80% of them failed to fire when struck by the firing pin of my M1 Carbine. I sent it back for a refund. The high-speed mass production process also means that tolerances are loose, so that accuracy suffers from inconsistencies, mostly in powder charges. At longer distances, that really adds up. For self defense situations, like a "10 feet across the room" home break-in scenario, accuracy isn't that important. But for sport shooting it certainly is. And if it's the long-term capability of continuing to shoot well in sport which is your concern, then storing reloads, or the components for reloads, is certainly a good idea. Once you see how much better reloads will shoot, you don't want to go back to commercial ammo again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #37 March 18, 2009 Where did you purchase your .30 carbine ammo. Not from CMP, I hope, as I am getting ready to order 1000 rounds. Who was the manufacturer?"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #38 March 18, 2009 I think the difference is probably one of reloading skill. You have the skill and experience to handload a cartridge that's more reliable than (for example) the TAP FPD that I store for emergencies. I do not have that skill. Therefore, the "best" (most reliable, most accurate) ammunition you can keep on hand is your own handloads (or the ability to create them). The "best" ammo I can keep on hand is a commercially produced load (depending on which one I choose, in my case the TAP FPD for handguns and some LC M855 just in case something really bad happens). In terms of keeping stuff around to continue target shooting, training, and generally having fun, I think that almost anything will do for me, because I'm not a competitive shooter, nor do I have the skills to really need the most accurate possible equipment/ammunition. I honestly don't store any of the plinking ammo, because I really don't expect some kind of outright ban. If that happens, I'd probably just stop shooting stuff, hide everything in airtight cannisters, and take up a new hobby (9th amendment litigation, perhaps ). -- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #39 March 18, 2009 For years it was hard to find a quality hunting bullet in factory ammo. I've been reloading for about 45 years now. If you wanted Nosler Partition bullet, (a bullet that will penetrate deeply, even on heavy bone) you were out of luck, unless you reloaded. The selection was very limited if you bought factory ammo. Then things changed. Demand created a new market for better bullets. Recently it was possible to buy better factory ammo that had better bullets. Some sporting good stores handled this. That is up until the latest shortages. You are now lucky just to get the right caliber in factory ammo, let alone the right weight or fancy bullet. All the more reason to reload. If you look hard enough you can still find the components you need. Hopefully this shortage won't last. If it does, or if prices go through the roof, I'll have what I need.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #40 March 18, 2009 Quote Just regulate ammo out of existence.http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlanta-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m3d16-Atlanta-ammunition-supply-is-severely-constrained. \ It just goes to show that the Democrats are all show and no go when it comes to environmental issues (reduce, reuse, recycle - where re-using existing brass is obviously better than wasting energy recycling and then remanufacturing). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #41 March 18, 2009 Quote Quote Just regulate ammo out of existence.http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlanta-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m3d16-Atlanta-ammunition-supply-is-severely-constrained. \ It just goes to show that the Democrats are all show and no go when it comes to environmental issues (reduce, reuse, recycle - where re-using existing brass is obviously better than wasting energy recycling and then remanufacturing). Drew, buddy, have you actually followed this entire thread?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #42 March 18, 2009 QuoteWhere did you purchase your .30 carbine ammo. Not from CMP, I hope, as I am getting ready to order 1000 rounds. Who was the manufacturer? http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=AMM-613 It's not from the CMP, but the CMP sells Lake City ammo. So it could be the same stuff. Or maybe this was just a bad batch... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #43 March 19, 2009 Quote Ditto on that. I'm still using up a case of .45 ammo from WWII, that fires every time. Hey John, weren't you supposed to turn that back in after VE-Day? --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #44 March 19, 2009 Quote Quote Ditto on that. I'm still using up a case of .45 ammo from WWII, that fires every time. Hey John, weren't you supposed to turn that back in after VE-Day? Shhhh! They aren't supposed to know that I sneaked off with that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
