affirmative action

[happythoughts 0]

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>What about the sons of the north, who didn't own slaves?

Hopefully, they will see the value in not having those crimes committed again as well. You don't have to have a rape in your past to be against rape.

Sure, everyone is against crime. The innocent are
just unhappy about having a penalty levied against them.

The children of non-slave owners are discriminated
against because their ancestors did the right thing.
No cotton growing in Illinois.

[billvon 2,402]

>The children of non-slave owners are discriminated against because their
>ancestors did the right thing.

Methinks you might want to re-read my post.

[happythoughts 0]

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>The children of non-slave owners are discriminated against because their
>ancestors did the right thing.

Methinks you might want to re-read my post.

Everyone agrees on the concept of ending discrimination. However, the implementation of AA does
not actually help, if it discriminates against another group
using the same criteria that was deemed offensive.
AA merely repeats the crime with a different target.

[dreamdancer 0]

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AA merely repeats the crime with a different target.

methinks you want to re-read your history - you seem a bit lost

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 2,402]

>Everyone agrees on the concept of ending discrimination. However, the
>implementation of AA does not actually help, if it discriminates against
>another group using the same criteria that was deemed offensive.
>AA merely repeats the crime with a different target.

Yep. Again, you may want to re-read my post.

[happythoughts 0]

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AA merely repeats the crime with a different target.

methinks you want to re-read your history - you seem a bit lost

Sure, let me go re-read all of history and get
back to you.

Did you want to actually state a fact, opinion, or
go for the Most Ambiguous Post Award?

[Amazon 7]

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I guess you have never been subjected to it.... bully for you

Guess away, but I have. I just don't want to project those acts of ignorance of the few to a LARGE demographic. Not all white males are racist or sexist or .... And I don't WANT to "punish" the non-guilty.

It's that ONE person that is problem (unfortunately there are a lot of "that ONE" people) And ... I hate to say it... but it's not entirely the fault of that one person.... Imagine a lil boy growing up and being told how great he is and how wonderful he will be. That's what parents are supposed to do - encourage confidence, instill self-pride. Sometimes that conditioning goes overboard and instead of just "you're great" it becomes "you're better than everyone else." Now Johnnie has a chip on his shoulder cuz that's what Daddy said. And then you might have another little child that doesn't receive such praise and then feels inferior to Johnnie. How much of all this can we absolutely dump on lil Johnnie? In my mind, at least 51% but not 100%.... but I just don't know the place in between. So even the "guilty" have reasons behind their attitudes.

But telling people to "Be Nice" doesn't always seem to work, now does it?

It never ceases to amaze me how many women of your generation forget how many of us in my generation in the 1960's and 1970's fought for that which you have benefited from. At that time our options were FAR more limited than what you have now...Try not to forget that.


Thanks for renewing my faith in todays GOP mantra.... I've got mine and fuck all the rest of THOSE people.

[georgerussia 0]

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do you think reparations/compensation should be made to the european jews?

I am Jewish and I think they should not have done this, because nobody should be forced to pay for mistakes made by their parent. However it's not a good case to compare, because the compensation is only paid to those who DIRECTLY suffered from Nazi, and not just to any Jewish person around.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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In jobs where minorites and/or females have historically been discriminated against, affirmative action requires employers to take positive steps when recruiting QUALIFIED applicants to redress the employment imbalance cause by the past discrimination.

The problem with such remedy is that, for example, we had recently a discussion in a local Russian group. And it was related to affirmative action (in our interpretation). And it had interesting results - almost everyone said they would not see a black doctor or lawyer, because of suspicion he got their diploma as a result of affirmative action, and not because of skill or job qualifications. So it was suggested that affirmative action already negatively affects the people it was supposed to protect just by the simple fact it exists.

Remember that none of us, nor our parents or grandparents had slaves, so we don't give shit about this "past discrimination". Nor, I believe, all the Indians, Chinese, Italian and Finnish guys who work with me, do. There is no way I gonna feel responsible for the actions of the people I never sanctioned or was related to.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kbordson 8]

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I guess you have never been subjected to it.... bully for you

Guess away, but I have. I just don't want to project those acts of ignorance of the few to a LARGE demographic. Not all white males are racist or sexist or .... And I don't WANT to "punish" the non-guilty.

It's that ONE person that is problem (unfortunately there are a lot of "that ONE" people) And ... I hate to say it... but it's not entirely the fault of that one person.... Imagine a lil boy growing up and being told how great he is and how wonderful he will be. That's what parents are supposed to do - encourage confidence, instill self-pride. Sometimes that conditioning goes overboard and instead of just "you're great" it becomes "you're better than everyone else." Now Johnnie has a chip on his shoulder cuz that's what Daddy said. And then you might have another little child that doesn't receive such praise and then feels inferior to Johnnie. How much of all this can we absolutely dump on lil Johnnie? In my mind, at least 51% but not 100%.... but I just don't know the place in between. So even the "guilty" have reasons behind their attitudes.

But telling people to "Be Nice" doesn't always seem to work, now does it?

It never ceases to amaze me how many women of your generation forget how many of us in my generation in the 1960's and 1970's fought for that which you have benefited from. At that time our options were FAR more limited than what you have now...Try not to forget that.


Thanks for renewing my faith in todays GOP mantra.... I've got mine and fuck all the rest of THOSE people.

Sometimes your posts make no sense.

1. What directly did you do to open MY options that I have to try not to forget?

2. Where did I say "fuck all the rest of THOSE people"? In fact... I actually said that there was problems with the past, but I don't want to FUCK the non guilty.

you are a go for the next spin.

[Amazon 7]

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Sometimes your posts make no sense.

1. What directly did you do to open MY options that I have to try not to forget?

2. Where did I say "fuck all the rest of THOSE people"? In fact... I actually said that there was problems with the past, but I don't want to FUCK the non guilty.

you are a go for the next spin.

Ya know doc.. for a supposedly educated person you seem to be a bit clueless of womens issues over the last 50 years....w/r/t affirmative action. 50 years ago when I was in school.... 99.9% of women in the health care field were nurses with no hope of ever becoming doctors.

Men were doctors.. women were nurses.

Nevermind... yeah history has no bearing on your wonderful life...

You are not the only one who thinks they hit a home run in life.. BUT.. not everyone gets to start out on third base

The fact is.. that even now.. many many people can't even get onto the field to play in the first place.

[TheAnvil 0]

This thread is hilarious.

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affirmative action refers to policies that take gender, race, or ethnicity into account

Policies that take gender into account...policies that use gender as a discriminating factor.

Policies that take race into account...policies that use race as a discriminating factor.

Policies that take ethnicity into account...policies that use ethnicity as a disciminating factor.

Racist and sexist. No exception. No negotiation. By definition. Res ipsa loquitor

The majority of left wingers run with their little tails between their legs yelling epithets - mainly forms of projection on their part - about anyone who doesn't subscribe to their racist and sexist policies. Cowards who can neither face nor state the truth about that which they so ardently support.

But not Jeanne. She's ADMITTED she supports racial discrimination under its guise! I'm still so proud of you for that. A standout among liberals, you most certainly are, my dear!



Absolutely HILARIOUS.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Amazon 7]

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This thread is hilarious.

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affirmative action refers to policies that take gender, race, or ethnicity into account

Policies that take gender into account...policies that use gender as a discriminating factor.

Policies that take race into account...policies that use race as a discriminating factor.

Policies that take ethnicity into account...policies that use ethnicity as a disciminating factor.

Racist and sexist. No exception. No negotiation. By definition. Res ipsa loquitor

The majority of left wingers run with their little tails between their legs yelling epithets - mainly forms of projection on their part - about anyone who doesn't subscribe to their racist and sexist policies. Cowards who can neither face nor state the truth about that which they so ardently support.

But not Jeanne. She's ADMITTED she supports racial discrimination under its guise! I'm still so proud of you for that. A standout among liberals, you most certainly are, my dear!



Absolutely HILARIOUS.

Now if we could get you and your fellow travellers to tell the truth

but that ain't ever gonna happen.

[TheAnvil 0]

And what truth would that be? The fact that we refuse to care what race anyone is, just because left wingers do? Most people who think as I do readily admit that. It's the reason we're refer to so many of your leftist cohorts as liars, bigots, and cowards.

Please, by all means, enlighten us.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 2,402]

>The fact that we refuse to care what race anyone is, just because left
>wingers do?

Do you think that, as a rule, white people were enslaved in the 1700's and 1800's in the United States?

[Amazon 7]

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And what truth would that be? The fact that we refuse to care what race anyone is, just because left wingers do? Most people who think as I do readily admit that. It's the reason we're refer to so many of your leftist cohorts as liars, bigots, and cowards.

Please, by all means, enlighten us.

Doing nothing.. to level the playing field.... the good "conservative" way.. only perpetuates the institutionalized racism/sexism that is alive and well.. and from which you and your fellow travellers have benefited from.

[TheAnvil 0]

There's not really much think to it - history tells us the answer is no.

Though one might consider some of the work conditions akin to slavery that many immigrants were forced into upon and for quite some time after their arrival here. Indentured servitude was often little better than slavery in many regards.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[TheAnvil 0]

vice become a proponent of racist and sexist programs that you propose?

Hmmm...I choose to NOT be a racist or sexist and not care what color anyone is. What a nice choice. Perhaps you'll make it someday!

Are you insinuating that poor white folks from rural America deserve their lot in life but that poor minorities do not? T'would seem to follow from that line of reasoning quite readily. Quite a revolting, reprehensible, and uncaring line of reasoning.

[barf]

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Amazon 7]

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vice become a proponent of racist and sexist programs that you propose?

Hmmm...I choose to NOT be a racist or sexist and not care what color anyone is. What a nice choice. Perhaps you'll make it someday!

Are you insinuating that poor white folks from rural America deserve their lot in life but that poor minorities do not? T'would seem to follow from that line of reasoning quite readily. Quite a revolting, reprehensible, and uncaring line of reasoning.

[barf]

Again by doing nothing YOU perpetuate the status quo.... I guess that is just inconprehensible to you... it sure works for the Council of Conservative Citizens

[billvon 2,402]

>There's not really much think to it - history tells us the answer is no.

Why, Vinny, I think you've just admitted that you think of one race as different than another! Are people that care what race slaves were "liars, bigots, and cowards?"

I would venture to say no, they are not. Nor are people who acknowledge that blacks were prohibited from attending the same schools as whites. Nor are people who acknowledge that blacks were prohibited from marrying whites, using the same drinking fountains as whites, and riding in the same part of the bus as whites.

Because, unfortunately, these are not the imaginings of a bigoted mind. They are the actual results of the institutionalized bigotry that existed here in the US up until about 1970. Heck, when I was born, blacks were not legally allowed to marry whites.

I am sure you agree that if the government wrongs you you are entitled to compensation for their wrongs. If the government, because of your sex, race or religion denied you public education, or transportation, or the right to marry, I would hope that you would be able to recover damages from them.

Ideally you would do this on your own, if you felt the need to recover those damages. I can also see the logic behind compensating ALL the people who were so wronged. If you prefer to require proof that they were directly harmed, I wouldn't argue with that, as long as such proof was possible to come by and did not make the process so onerous as to be nearly impossible.

There will come a day where no one who is working was ever denied education, or forced to sit in the back of a bus, or denied the right to marry based on their race. I'm glad that will come in my lifetime. Until then, proponents of affirmative action do have a good argument. Based not on bigotry, or on the color of people's skin. But based on the actual, real discrimination levied against people who, even today, are living with the results of that bigotry.

Does it matter that they were black? Not really. If such discrimination had been directed at chinese, or women, or protestants, then they would be as entitled as blacks are to such compensation. But they weren't.

You seek to blame the people who are (often mistakenly, IMO) trying to right a wrong that occurred over 40 years ago. But they do not single out blacks because they are bigots - they single out blacks because blacks were the target of the US government's systematic programs of discrimination. They are a better target for your ire.

[TrophyHusband 0]

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no it isn't a good thing. its racism/sexism.

affirmative action is neither racist nor sexist.

how is it not racist or sexist? placing minimums on minorities and women means that a more qualified white male will be denied a job based on his race and gender.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Amazon 7]

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no it isn't a good thing. its racism/sexism.

affirmative action is neither racist nor sexist.

how is it not racist or sexist? placing minimums on minorities and women means that a more qualified white male will be denied a job based on his race and gender.

And just what the fuck makes you think that... the usual practice is for minorities and women to not even be considered... based on the good ole boy who does not want to work with women.. or with minorities.

[TheAnvil 0]

So foul and fair an argument I have not seen in quite some time.

Do enlighten us, Bill, how you jump logically from my answer to your query to this inane deduction that I believe one race different from the other. I don't follow myself.

The race of slaves is a matter of historical record - and that race differs depending on which slaves and what period of history you examine. Furthermore, I never refer to anyone other than leftists defending AA as 'liars, bigots, and cowards' in any post on AA. Other topics, yes. AA - no.

Let me expound, though I think it obvious.

"You're a racist! you don't support AA!" - typical epithet from the left towards any conservative who doesn't support AA. Sometimes stated differently, but the paraphrased insult in quotes above is always the intent. An absolute lie. Liars lie.

Those espousing the aforementioned lie are quite obstinately devoted to this opinion...check out the definition of bigot. Quite apropos.

Cowards run when faced with something tough...like the fact that AA is racial discrimination, and those who discriminate based upon race are racists by definition.

Liars, bigots, and cowards are EXTREMELY appropriate choices of words when describing that crowd of AA supporters. With regards to those who happen to know history and don't fear to face it...I think not.

But, think as you like. I always do.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 2,402]

>that I believe one race different from the other.

Never mind. Sorry to bring it up. You're right - anyone who thinks that people who were harmed deserve any sort of compensation for damages done to them are bigots.

[georgerussia 0]

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Never mind. Sorry to bring it up. You're right - anyone who thinks that people who were harmed deserve any sort of compensation for damages done to them are bigots.

I believe the question is whether the compensation should be paid for damages done not only to them, but also to everyone else who shares the same race, sex, religion or whatever?

Someone already mentioned repatriation payments done by German government. Do you think that every Jew should be entitled for those payments? Or only those who directly suffered from the harm and could reasonably prove that?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *