TheAnvil 0 #1 February 7, 2009 Oh shit. I see the mega-spending bill has made itself into some sort of compromise. Screw all of us very fucking much. [barf] As if the current unfunded out year requirements of medicare, medicaid, and SS weren't enough. What a success for the left. Less than a month after GWB exits office they've got a massive, gigantic bit of spending to screw us all over and make the $$ worth less already coming down the pike! Fuck you, taxpayers! [barf] The audacity to propose such a massive bit of spending in the wake of the fucktarded TARP and auto-bailouts is staggering. Another testament to the failure of the American education system - the public outcry wasn't there. Perhaps indifference and disgust by the educated electorate. Dear God what a sad day for the country. [barf] Here's an audacious hope: I hope this bill languishes in the house-senate negotiations and dies. Dear God is this so fucking stupid. [barf]Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #2 February 7, 2009 Ok, when I first read this all I could think was "Inflation is coming, inflation is coming" a la "the British are coming"...... Sorry, I was reading Locke yesterday and felt patriotic...... ~R+R...Inflation=Bad juju... ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #3 February 7, 2009 Over a million jobs lost in the last 2 months of Bush's presidency, and all you can do is whine about the Dems. I don't recall your whining so much when Bush added $5Trillion to the debt, or spent $1Trillion on a war that was totally unnecessary. Your side LOST the election - get over it. I see the stock market responded positively to the news of the bailaout. On the whole I think spending $1Trillion on the US economy is a better deal for Americans than spending $1Trillion blowing up stuff and killing people in Iraq.If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #4 February 7, 2009 No one is worried about inflation in the short term - demand has fallen like a rock. Even with all of the people losing their jobs, the overall consumer debt level has been falling the past two months. The debt is the concern, not inflation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #5 February 7, 2009 Quote No one is worried about inflation in the short term - The debt is the concern, not inflation. And in the long term, that is exactly why inflation is coming. All the liquidity (money printing) that is being pumped into the economy is not inflationary because the velocity (multiplier effect) of money is very low with the lack of confidence. The goal of the program is to restore the confidence and thus the velocity of the money. At that time the fed will need to retract the liquidity from the system in order to forestall an inflationary cycle. Unfortunately the mechanics of that consist of the Fed selling treasury bonds that they have previously bought (and the treasury has already spent) either back to the treasury (budget surplus) or on the market, increasing the public debt and putting upward pressure on interest rates. Inflation is coming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #6 February 7, 2009 It's an irony to see the GOP congressfolks and their supporters complaining about spending (less than) $1T to create jobs and build insfrastructure at home, when the same crew were so gung-ho about invading Iraq (which in the long term will cost us well over $1T). I suppose the $1T+ that Iraq will cost us is not inflationary If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #7 February 7, 2009 Quote It's an irony to see the GOP congressfolks and their supporters complaining about spending (less than) $1T to create jobs and build insfrastructure at home, when the same crew were so gung-ho about invading Iraq (which in the long term will cost us well over $1T). I suppose the $1T+ that Iraq will cost us is not inflationary I think Iraq cost you more than $1T but in fact it was not overly inflationary. What it did was rob you of the financial latitude to deal with the stimulus/TARP packages without mid-long term inflationary pressures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #8 February 7, 2009 Quote I think Iraq cost you more than $1T but in fact it was not overly inflationary. What it did was rob you of the financial latitude to deal with the stimulus/TARP packages without mid-long term inflationary pressures. That notion says that latter spending is more guilty than prior spending. It didn't take a seer to predict that the deficit spending during the better days would make it harder to respond now. That trillion and this trillion are equally bad, depending on how you measure the success of each spending. It's too early to tell for Iraq still, and the other hasn't happened yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #9 February 7, 2009 QuoteQuote I think Iraq cost you more than $1T but in fact it was not overly inflationary. What it did was rob you of the financial latitude to deal with the stimulus/TARP packages without mid-long term inflationary pressures. That notion says that latter spending is more guilty than prior spending. It didn't take a seer to predict that the deficit spending during the better days would make it harder to respond now. That trillion and this trillion are equally bad, depending on how you measure the success of each spending. It's too early to tell for Iraq still, and the other hasn't happened yet. I was being tongue in cheek. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hwt 0 #10 February 7, 2009 Your side LOST the election - get over it. ___________________________________________ So this is the way to justify throwing in 50 years of wish list spending bills and all in the name of bailing out the economy..lol what a joke.Would you spend money this way in your house?Our kids have to pay for the spending spree. and notice how they rush em through so fast just like the banking bail out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #11 February 8, 2009 I'm not talking about the election, I'm talking about the stupidity of spending about a trillion $ we don't have on an amalgamation of pork that will do little, if anything, to stimulate the economy. This is goat-fuck-stupid. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #12 February 8, 2009 >Would you spend money this way in your house? Yes, I have, twice. The first time was to pay for my college education. I spent money that I had no hope of repaying at my current salary. The second time was to buy a house. That put me in debt for 25 years. Most people do similar things. I suspect you yourself have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jayruss 0 #13 February 8, 2009 Quote>Would you spend money this way in your house? Yes, I have, twice. The first time was to pay for my college education. I spent money that I had no hope of repaying at my current salary. The second time was to buy a house. That put me in debt for 25 years. Most people do similar things. I suspect you yourself have. Well then that begs the question, have either of those paid off for you financially? __________________________________________________ "Beware how you take away hope from another human being." -Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #14 February 8, 2009 Here's the deal. TARP falls right at the feet of the previous administration and predominantly the GOP (Let's not forget that our current Pres. voted for it, so therefore has ownership in it also). This stimulus [cough] package belongs to the present administration and is owned by the Dems. Only 3 moderate GOP members of the entire congress are supporting it. This new package is a HUGE risk for Pres. Obama and the Dems. Whether it will work remains to be seen. If it doesn't, it will be once again a GOP revolution in 2010 and Bye Bye to Pres. Obama in 2012. I personally do not support this package as I did not support TARP. For the good of my country though, I want it to succeed. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piahenzi 0 #15 February 8, 2009 Quote>Would you spend money this way in your house? Yes, I have, twice. The first time was to pay for my college education. I spent money that I had no hope of repaying at my current salary. The second time was to buy a house. That put me in debt for 25 years. Most people do similar things. I suspect you yourself have. yes, but YOU chose how to spend that money and YOU chose where to spend that money where you saw VALUE in it for yourself. I don't believe we have the choice as individuals here, to cross out crap in this bill that we dont like or see value in it for the long run. I think, party line aside, we can all agree that there needs to be an influx from the government, even if only to improve the "mood and confidence" of the country. I think worthwhile infrastructure projects - real bricks and mortar stuff, along with additional responsible bolstering of financial insititutions are good ideas; however, the size of the bill, where admittedly there are hundreds of billions that will NOT stimulate the economy or create jobs, is irresponsible government at best...why should any of us, regardless of "affiliation" accept that?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #16 February 8, 2009 Quote I'm not talking about the election, I'm talking about the stupidity of spending about a trillion $ we don't have on an amalgamation of pork that will do little, if anything, to stimulate the economy. a stupid war in Iraq that we didn't have to fight. This is goat-fuck-stupid. Fixed it for you.If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #17 February 8, 2009 Jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs... Um, it wasn't a lack of employment that started this. The big money losses weren't from jobs. We're now up to 7.6 percent unemployment. Which is about 1 percent above unemployment. 92 or 93 out of 100 people have jobs. Two years ago the number was 94. What changed? Wealth. Perceptions changed. And once people started saying, "Maybe I don't have the money for this" they stopped spending. And then it kept going. And we're losing jobs now. And the government reasons, "spending money they didn't have caused this. Why don't we spend money we don't have. That'll fix it. We need jobs." No. Wealth is a good place to start. I think the best way to create that is to leave us the fuck alone so we have money to hire people. Are we gonna create jobs in Detroit? No. Because doing so will only build cars that can't be sold. By allowing wealth to be rebuilt, people will do things like buy cars again - so long as a Honda doesn't cost $45k... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #18 February 8, 2009 QuoteWhat changed? Wealth. Perceptions changed. And once people started saying, "Maybe I don't have the money for this" they stopped spending. And then it kept going. And we're losing jobs now. Keynesian Paradox of thrift, eh? /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #19 February 8, 2009 Quote>Would you spend money this way in your house? Yes, I have, twice. The first time was to pay for my college education. I spent money that I had no hope of repaying at my current salary. The second time was to buy a house. That put me in debt for 25 years. Most people do similar things. I suspect you yourself have. But at the same time you were getting something tangible out of your investments. This bill is nothing but PORK. Every time I turn on the news my house smells of pig by product. The purpose of this bill was supposed to create jobs. Instead, the tax payers are being fleased."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #20 February 8, 2009 > This bill is nothing but PORK. $366 billion in tax cuts and tax incentives $39 billion for clean energy projects $27 billion for highway construction $88 billion for education While there is a lot of pork in there (which is sorta the point of the bill) - are you really claiming that tax cuts and highways are "pork?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #21 February 9, 2009 -If the "Bridge to nowhere" is pork, then highways are pork also. -While the tax cuts can create jobs, they won't unless they are targeted correctly. -I haven't seen anything in any of the legislation that is going to keep the parts for all or out new "Green Energy" from being out sourced. I could go on and on about the new jobs that are created, but the bottom line is unless the job exists outside of the government, they aren't creating any income for the government. A bigger bureaucracy just takes more money to run. I'm not saying that $650 million for new digital to analog cable boxes or 400 million to refurbish our "national treasures" aren't a good idea, just not a good idea right now or for this package. Most of this money is being borrowed from china and we will have to pay it back sooner or later. it's Pork."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #22 February 9, 2009 >-If the "Bridge to nowhere" is pork, then highways are pork also. Sorry, I should have specified "highways that actually go somewhere." >While the tax cuts can create jobs, they won't unless they are targeted correctly. Agreed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 February 9, 2009 QuoteLess than a month after GWB exits office they've got a massive, gigantic bit of spending to screw us all over and make the $$ worth less already coming down the pike! Fuck you, taxpayers! Isn't it ironic how they've bitched and bitched about how President Bush spent too much money and grew the government too much, and now they're cheering the expenditure of an Obama trillion as a great thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #24 February 9, 2009 >Isn't it ironic how they've bitched and bitched about how President Bush >spent too much money . . . Personally I think it's hilarious that all the conservatives that supported the largest expansion in federal government in a century are now bitching and moaning that the debt is going to increase. Welcome to the world you helped create. It's even funnier to watch the people who had no problem whatsoever just plain misplacing billions of dollars in Iraq becoming aghast that we would have the gall to spend billions on education here in the US. I mean, as long as you ship it to Iraq so they can lose it, no problem. But help educate Americans? Fuck them! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #25 February 9, 2009 Somewhat. But this right now is an example of why I think Keynes didn't factor in some things. Keynes' paradox would be a fine explanation for this - had the wealth not been stripped. One would think that savings would increase liquidity. It doesn't - there isn't wealth. The employment has been roughly the same but the liquidity has not. It has plummeted. Thus, the Keynes paradox just doesn't work here. Something similar does - it almost has it. But not quite p, in my mind. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
