I am sad today....

[virgin-burner 1]

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"known reality"!? Are you joking? Known to whom?

I provided references to substantiate my opinions and claims - would you be so kind as to do the same?

which have been proven to you to be wrong. you do live in your own little world, do you!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[masterrig 1]

Precisely!


Chuck

[NotBond 0]

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be gentle with the puppy, hasnt hit 100 posts yet, doesnt know what he's getting into..

to the OP: it might be a sad day to YOU, for the rest of the world its a joyous day and people are cheering because of your new president. and i truly hope the same goes for the majority of your fellow countrymen!

honestly, i think you should support him with all you have, since your last president left nothing but a bloody mess, bitter people, agitated leaders of other nations and unnecessary wars..

Thanks for kind intro....
Supporting a new President isin't an automatic in my book. While I may respect the Office, that does not mean I respect the individual. That comes with time, and observing what he does while he is our highest Head of State.

Years ago, I made ribald fun of Ronald Reagan when he ran for the office. After seeing what he did and how he helped bring back pride to this nation, I became a staunch supporter (I can hear the howling screams of the audience now..."He's a witch! Burn Him!")

One should never blindly follow leaders - leaders lead by example and gain respect from followers the same way.

Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyways... - John Wayne

[virgin-burner 1]

ronald reagan!? while that wasnt really my time (i'm too young for that), what could a hollywood actor actually have done good? you should support arnold too then, since he'd be about the same marionette. all i really remember from that area was reagans "space wars"-program (or whatever it was called) that cost you billions of dollars for the use of, well, nothing!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[NotBond 0]

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ronald reagan!? while that wasnt really my time (i'm too young for that), what could a hollywood actor actually have done good? you should support arnold too then, since he'd be about the same marionette. all i really remember from that area was reagans "space wars"-program (or whatever it was called) that cost you billions of dollars for the use of, well, nothing!?

I think the term "cowboy diplomacy" summed it up well. Actually the actor portion came in handy, as Reagan was known as "The Great Communicator" - lousy actor, but good public speaker in getting his points across, even if he did stumble over his words sometimes. Not like Bush, who just gets it wrong.....

While "Star Wars" didn't really pan out it accomplished two things - developed new space technologies, and forced the Soviets into a fatal spending spree trying to keep up, backrupting them and directly causing the fall of the Soviet Union.

Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyways... - John Wayne

[hwt 0]

I for one am glad that we, as a nation finally got past the racial thing. Now the blacks no longer have an excuse as to why they failed.
The democrats have full control now and they too no longer have any excuses.
I just hope we can get things done, because alot of things sure need fixing..

[masterrig 1]

That birth certificate hassle is like kickin' a dead horse. Don't you think by now, some real proof would've been brought forward that Obama is not a 'natural born' citizen of the U.S.?
Something else I don't understand... if, Obama paid big bucks to 'seal' his records, how is it he was even allowed to run for president of the U.S.? I suppose, he paid big bucks to those folks to keep quiet, too.
Do you think, whoever Obama registered with to enter the election process just took his word for everything?
Don't you think, any hint of 'cover-up' would've raised some flags or set-off sirens? Is all this birth certificate business just a veiled form of racism? Is it because of the man's name that rings of some foreign terrorist? Is it because the other guy who ran didn't win? The people spoke and the results are in!
The man won fair and square. Obama is our President. Let's give him a fair shake and see what happens.


Chuck

[jakee 1,257]

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I provided references to substantiate my opinions and claims

No, you did not. You linked to two opinion pieces!

Lets take a closer look at them, shall we?

The World Net Daily piece is simply a report showing that Berg is continuing to sue (or was several months ago when it was written). Not sure what you want to prove with that, we all know that Berg sued.

Then the Israel National News blog, which states that there are contradictory news reports over which Hawaiian hospital he was born in. What "reports" do they link to? Cached Wikipedia pages of Obama and of Queens hospital! Holy smokes Batman, Wikipedia pages showing contradictory information? Call the FBI, it's a conspiracy!

Trust me, these "references" do not reflect well on the depth of research you have conducted here.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[virgin-burner 1]

star wars, that was it, i knew i got something wrong!

cowboy diplomacy, reminds me of a recent president..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[NotBond 0]

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I provided references to substantiate my opinions and claims

No, you did not. You linked to two opinion pieces!

And two quoted explanations on the origin of of the phrase "bread and circuses", a scanned copy of an actual birth certificate from Indiana circa 1960, and a cut and paste of Article II of the US Constitution.

My request to you stands - please provide references to the "known reality" that you spoke of.

Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyways... - John Wayne

[councilman24 36]

Old has nothing to do with it. My 'original' birth certificate wasn't. It was issued by the hospital and had served until I wanted a passport 15 years ago. It didn't count. Does yours? I had to get certified copies from the State of Illinois. So my 'old' birth certificate couldn't get me elected to anything. Including the local city council. I needed the NEW one.

Off to go read something worth the time.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[aprilcat 0]

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I'm sorry that you're sad. If it makes you feel any better, most of us are happy.
Happy that we have a President who was able to make it to the White House on his own merit, one who has succeeded at just about every endeavor he's undertaken.
Happy that we have a President whose election is symbolic of the notion of the freedom, fairness and opportunity that we espouse and promote as the backbone of our nation.
Happy to have a President who doesn't embrace torture or an "ends justifies the means" approach to absolutely everything.
Happy to have a President who is satisfied with a 1/3 stake in our balance of government.
Happy to have a President who has gained the respect of most of the world's leadership, his peers.
And we're freakin' ECSTATIC that we have a President who doesn't make us wince and cringe every time he makes a public address.

You left out 'happy that we can now PROVE to every child in America that they can succeed. Every single one if they mind their studies and service their communities.

We know the past, we should be happy that every child has a chance and the children NOW know it!'.~~April

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[livendive 8]

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OK, then I will ask you to do it. Post the original - with the original seal - on the net, right here in this thread. Or mail it to me and I will scan it, post it on the net and send it back. Your choice.

Gonna call me on it, eh? Ok, fine. I'll do it tonight - I WILL black out any info that could be used for identity theft purposes, of course. Not gonna be stupid, you know.

Gosh, you're lucky. I don't even have an original birth certificate. Mine's an "altered copy."

Same here, and if I ask the county for another, they're not gonna give me the original, but rather another copy.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[sfc 0]

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I provided references to substantiate my opinions and claims

No, you did not. You linked to two opinion pieces!

And two quoted explanations on the origin of of the phrase "bread and circuses", a scanned copy of an actual birth certificate from Indiana circa 1960, and a cut and paste of Article II of the US Constitution.

My request to you stands - please provide references to the "known reality" that you spoke of.

The basis of your claim is that your birth certificate looks more authentic than the President's, and you are using a low res scan of his birth certificate to compare with yours, I'm sorry but I can't buy into that as proof, it is not even suspicious and so far all courts that have ruled agree with me.

You also have posted some opinions from the web which have no standing, I trust the US courts more than some random blog. The only reason you don't is that it doesn't support your opinion and you can't accept that you are wrong.

[livendive 8]

What shred of evidence do you have the Obama was born somewhere other than Hawaii?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 2,416]

> Not my fault, I had to reduce it for posting.

So you've admitted to posting an altered birth certificate that does not even include the complete date of the certification! Did you know that if a birth certificate is incomplete it is invalid?

And you've also admitted to posting an intentionally illegible birth certificate, because you couldn't be bothered to:

1) post a black and white copy (3x the resolution)
2) post a line drawing copy (24x the resolution)
3) use one of the thousands of free sites to post at a higher color resolution.

So what are you hiding?

>I posted a genuine copy of an Indiana BC from 1960 - that's all the info they put on those things from that time.

"Genuine copy?" It's not legible OR certified!

When you post a legible copy of a certified birth certificate, you might have as much proof of your citizenship as Obama did. Until then, your claims that he is not a citizen but you are is pretty funny.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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That birth certificate hassle is like kickin' a dead horse. Don't you think by now, some real proof would've been brought forward that Obama is not a 'natural born' citizen of the U.S.?
Something else I don't understand... if, Obama paid big bucks to 'seal' his records, how is it he was even allowed to run for president of the U.S.? I suppose, he paid big bucks to those folks to keep quiet, too.
Do you think, whoever Obama registered with to enter the election process just took his word for everything?
Don't you think, any hint of 'cover-up' would've raised some flags or set-off sirens? Is all this birth certificate business just a veiled form of racism? Is it because of the man's name that rings of some foreign terrorist? Is it because the other guy who ran didn't win? The people spoke and the results are in!
The man won fair and square. Obama is our President. Let's give him a fair shake and see what happens.


Chuck

Does anyone really believe that Hillary's camp would not have dealt with this a year and a half ago. Just who are these shadowy back room types that have the power to thwart both the Clinton machine and the RNC? Obama the manchurian candidate for whom? The military industrial complex? The Council on Foreign Relations The Mob? The KGB? Who?
I re-ask the question someone asked earlier; if Obama is a natural born American, what would that look like?

[masterrig 1]

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That birth certificate hassle is like kickin' a dead horse. Don't you think by now, some real proof would've been brought forward that Obama is not a 'natural born' citizen of the U.S.?
Something else I don't understand... if, Obama paid big bucks to 'seal' his records, how is it he was even allowed to run for president of the U.S.? I suppose, he paid big bucks to those folks to keep quiet, too.
Do you think, whoever Obama registered with to enter the election process just took his word for everything?
Don't you think, any hint of 'cover-up' would've raised some flags or set-off sirens? Is all this birth certificate business just a veiled form of racism? Is it because of the man's name that rings of some foreign terrorist? Is it because the other guy who ran didn't win? The people spoke and the results are in!
The man won fair and square. Obama is our President. Let's give him a fair shake and see what happens.


Chuck

Does anyone really believe that Hillary's camp would not have dealt with this a year and a half ago. Just who are these shadowy back room types that have the power to thwart both the Clinton machine and the RNC? Obama the manchurian candidate for whom? The military industrial complex? The Council on Foreign Relations The Mob? The KGB? Who?
I re-ask the question someone asked earlier; if Obama is a natural born American, what would that look like?

That's what I say. Probably some crap started on the internet, which everyone knows, holds only the truth! We finally get someone in the office of President who is the 'real' deal and sure as the world, someone has to come along and try to blemish him. We finally get a true example of someone who literally, pulled themselves up by the boot straps and became a very fine example to everyone and especially, our young people and someone has to try to demean and denegrate him. That's pretty sad, to me.
As for what a 'natural born American' looks like? That's a tough one! Wait! I know! Barack Obama!


Chuck

[jakee 1,257]

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And two quoted explanations on the origin of of the phrase "bread and circuses",

Which is irrelevant both to the case of Obama's citizenship, and showing that the phrase from antiquity can actually be applied to present day politics.

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a scanned copy of an actual birth certificate from Indiana circa 1960,

Which is irrelevant to the case of Obama's citizenship, except to highlight how very little you know about what proof he has provided.

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and a cut and paste of Article II of the US Constitution.

Which does nothing to support any of your claims.

Let's look at your claims: You believe that that the President of the USA, his family, the administration of the hospital of his birth, the Hawaii department of health and the governor of Hawaii are complicit in a conspiracy to cover up Obama's inelligibility for the office to which he has been democratically elected. The "reference" you have provided to support this allegation uses, as a large part of it's argument, the fact that someone, somewhere on the internet, once wrote down the wrong hospital as the place of Obama's birth.

That's pathetic.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[NotBond 0]

Demean and denigrate? Who ARE you people???

I posted my opinion that I had doubts about his eligibility, based on information available to me. The major part of the OP was lamenting the lack of, what I shall call, proper behavior expressed in public as a whole, and a seeming drift from principles. You are free to disagree or not with my opinion.

Instead it became a dogpile, with me being accused of God knows what. I was challenged to provide my birth certificate online - which I did. Sorry I didn't know about the larger resolution rates of line drawings or black and white. I'm not a graphic artist. Excuse me for not being the computer guru.

Are you folks this cruel and hateful in person? If it's true that internet forums expose a person's true personality, then this is a scary place. My God, I posted an opinion and I end up defending my very existance and birthright.

It's been posted previously on DZ that "skydivers are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet". That sure seems in doubt right now, when you look at the responses to a simple difference of thought. Some of the posts in this thread would make skinheads or Brownshirts proud.

I have struggeld to respond in a calm, considerate manner, but I got to tell you, I'm bangin my head on the desk here. I simply cannot believe the venom in some of these responses. If you people act this way in person, I'm not sure I even want to be around you folks. And the moderator is nearly as bad! Just what are you moderating - or are you screening out the death threats against me?

Sorry if I offended anyone. I have an opinion, I'm entitled to my opinion, and don't feel I need to defend it anymore. You don't like it - fine with me. I may not like yours either. So what.

Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyways... - John Wayne

[billvon 2,416]

> Sorry I didn't know about the larger resolution rates of line drawings or
> black and white. I'm not a graphic artist. Excuse me for not being the
> computer guru.

No problem not being a computer guru. But, in kind, do not denigrate others when they don't have skills that you yourself do not have.

There is nothing wrong with asking for a birth certificate. But when one is posted - and is more complete, more legible and less altered than the one you provided, for whatever reason - your claims become suspect. You're holding people responsible for what you yourself are unwilling or unable to do, and many people see that as somewhat hypocritical.

[downwardspiral 0]

Right on brother.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[pirana 0]

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not because he's younger than all previous Presidents

4 previous Presidents named Roosevelt, Grant, Kennedy, and Clinton were younger.

Jeez, man... if you can't get the undisputed facts correct how can you expect to be taken seriously?

Yep, the OP signifies a lot conspiracy theorist potential.

My acid test for that is to find out if they think the moon landing was faked.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[jakee 1,257]

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I posted my opinion that I had doubts about his eligibility, based on information available to me.

Information which is, for the most part, provably false.

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The major part of the OP was lamenting the lack of, what I shall call, proper behavior expressed in public as a whole, and a seeming drift from principles.

Which doesn't exist, since your starting point is untrue.

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Are you folks this cruel and hateful in person?

Are you this thin-skinned? No one has been nasty to you, they've simply exposed the falsehood of your claims.

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That sure seems in doubt right now, when you look at the responses to a simple difference of thought.

You've said things which are demonstrably false. Why do you expect people not to take issue with that?

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And the moderator is nearly as bad! Just what are you moderating... I have an opinion, I'm entitled to my opinion,

You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to have your opinion go unchallenged when you express it in a public place. The mod's job is to stop personal attacks, not to protect your opinion or stop people pointing out where you are wrong.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[dgskydive 0]

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1) mine looks more genuinely old, 48 years to be exact, with fading and wrinkles. It's not fresh as a daisy and pristine, and
2) mine has a Notary Seal in the lower left corner. Where's the one on Obama's?

Mine is Fresh as a daisy and pristine and does not have a notary seal anywhere on it.

My original was lost and had to get a new copy about a 18 months ago. As far as the notary seal. A lot of places dont use them anymore. I simple number and a statement is all that is needed. That is attached to the paperwork.

Me thinks you have a more of a motive to bash Obama then in your original post. Is it to much for a (presumably) white mid western male, to accept a mixed race man with a funny name as his president?

Dom