kelpdiver 2 #351 January 6, 2009 QuoteQuoteIf the shoe fits...the frame of reference problem with "terrorist" aside, it's the appropriate word for those who launch rockets and suicide bombers at civilian targets. So dropping a bomb in a crowded street knowing that inocent lives will be killed should be considered an act of terrorism. You see the unfortunate thing for you is you will spin and wiggle and change what you just stated. Because for some reason its ok when the Israelis kill people even with there better equipment and much more advanced army. But if an Arab does it he is a “Terrorist” Hypocrisy. No wiggling is necessary - you refuse to acknowledge that the Israelis are bombing military targets while Hamas bombs civilians. Even the Hamas accounting for deaths proves this. Your stance is morally corrupt at best. And no, putting a rocket launcher in someone's backyard doesn't make it a civilian target. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #352 January 6, 2009 QuoteWho rules Ori? Isreils? Or International law? the same international law you like so much... QuoteIn particular, this compliance requires combatants to distinguish themselves from civilians, except in particular circumstances (see point c below) by a uniform or other distinctive sign, visible and recognizable at a distance, while they are engaged in an attack or in a military operation preparatory to an attack. or to make it simple, they cannot operate from civilian houses and back yards and then complain civilians get hurt. UN resolutuins are meaningless when you have an automatic arab/muslim majority for any anti-israeli idea. claiming that the UN is impartial is not even funny... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #353 January 6, 2009 Quote two notes: 1. it doesn't say anywhere that Israel has to supply Gaza with anything. Yes it does. But you prefer not to recognize the UN or Geneva Conventions so......I guess the argument ends there. I understand that proximity to violence can have an affect on what is considered acceptable suffering. And I do commend you for your willingness to look at the larger picture, as evidenced by your comments regarding Hebron. Quote anad again, the fact that they were democratically elected has no impact on anything. the choises they make is the only thing that matters O I didn't like our 43rd President, I wasn't crazy about how the election was concluded and I didn't want an extremist running my country. But I never considered locking him in Texas with no food and water as an option (ask me again in two weeks though and you'll likely get a different answer). Hamas won a legitimate election. At that point someone needed to step in and acknowledge their leadership position and urge them to sit at the table and give them the respect that the position demands. Instead we decided to recognize the loser of the election as the leader and lock up the winner in a concentration camp. We didn't even give them ONE STINKIN' DAY to see how they would respond before we began to marginalize them and start kidnapping their leaders. I have no idea how Hamas would have responded to an extended hand at a peace talk. Maybe they would have been willing to negotiate, maybe they would have started lobbing rockets. I don't know, but I wish they had been given the chance. You put the ball in their court by leading by example and doing the right thing. If they fuck up after that, THEN it's their fault. As I said before, I don't condone their launching of rockets into Israel, but I understand why they might be pissed off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #354 January 6, 2009 QuoteIn particular, this compliance requires combatants to distinguish themselves from civilians, except in particular circumstances (see point c below) by a uniform or other distinctive sign, visible and recognizable at a distance, while they are engaged in an attack or in a military operation preparatory to an attack. So only the rules that support your side matter? I shouldn’t even post more then one word Hypocrisy seems to take care of most of them. Want me to go down thge list of rules violated by Isreil? QuoteUN resolutuins are meaningless when you have an automatic arab/muslim majority for any anti-israeli idea. And as for the UN the US has Vetoed every time the UN has tried put a sanction or some sort of resolution that Israel didn’t like. And I do agree that the majority of people stand against Israeli action the difference is I believe they are right for doing so.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #355 January 6, 2009 QuoteYes it does not once it pulled out. again, instead of explosive they could have imported food and supplies. QuoteHamas won a legitimate election. actually no, they won the elections to parliment. they took control of the government by overthrowing the PA (and killing many in the process) Quotebut I wish they had been given the chance. You put the ball in their court by leading by example and doing the right thing. If they fuck up after that they have and they did. they refused to even recognize the treaties already signed with the PA. if they dont respect what was already signed, how do you want to sign new things with them? "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #356 January 6, 2009 QuoteSo only the rules that support your side matter? no, the part that says you cant hid behind the Geneva convention regarding civilians getting hurt while you are the one who is putting them in danger is. QuoteAnd as for the UN the US has Vetoed every time the UN has tried put a sanction or some sort of resolution that Israel didn’t like and by doing so it saved the UN from becoming a complete joke. you honestly don't see a problem with "impartial" resolutions where 21 members of the UN are Arab countries, and 52 members represent Islamic countries? "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #357 January 6, 2009 QuoteI have written on this subject so much. I am not trying to be dick but honestly just read what the Palestinian have to put up with every single day. When there is no war. Just do a quick search and read. That’s what I find so frustrating the lack of acknowledgment of their suffering not right now when there is war but every single day. I also love it when people try to separate and make the Palestinian actions seem nuts while many would act in a much more violent manner if they were in the Palestinians place. Ok.. they suffer.... PERHAPS they would suffer a hell of a lot less if they would quit attacking civilians in Israel... or can you not acknowledge that Darius. I am curious why all of their muslim brothers have not accepted them into their countries with open arms... Isnt that supposed to be the way??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #358 January 6, 2009 I don't have any sympathy for Hamas or the Palestinians. They are perpetuating this cycle of violence just as much as the Isrealis. I think they would have much better results by laying down their arms and not giving the Israelis any excuse to invade. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
434 2 #359 January 6, 2009 Well here is the case: Your ethnic population getting a huge land inside USA. All ethnics groups from all over the world start coming, and the population rising with huge numbers every year! They get supported from EC with first class modern weapons, and huge money support! What now? You sit put and watching? Do you remember your history? Do they remember how they got treated and how the land got ripped apart between their hands? Would have been an interesting scenery to watch from outside! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #360 January 6, 2009 and look at how much progress Hamas is having with their current policy. What was that saying about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #361 January 6, 2009 Quoteand look at how much progress Hamas is having with their current policy. What was that saying about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? The truth is that no matter how many times the Israelis said they would not negotiate with Arafat, they eventually did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #362 January 6, 2009 It didn't do anything but line Arafats pockets. Arafat did nothing but look out for his own interests just like Hamas is doing. Their only interest is war. Hamas can't see beyond their hate. Hamas doesn't really care about the Palestinian people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #363 January 6, 2009 Quote But the President represents the US to the world, as well as controlling the military. That is currently George Bush. Did nobody else see Obama's comments on the situation? He said that if someone was firing rockets into his daughters' window then he would do whatever it took to stop it. The Israeli defense minister then quoted him in a speach defending their actions. EDIT: The comments were apparently made earlier this summer. Either way, he's made his views clear and hoping he'll change something on the 21st is rediculous. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #364 January 6, 2009 QuoteI disagree with your comparison. Now you've switched from apples to oranges. Vandalism with a slingshot indeed does NOT warrant the use of deadly force in response. However, when you switch to the topic of Hamas firing rockets at population centers, then that's deadly force to start with, and therefore deadly force IS a valid response in return. So a teacher that is punched by a student should then punch the said student to show him who is boss? That type of thinking is seriously flawed, the reason the world is at war constantly and is contributing to the problems rather than resolving them. How much less terrorism is in the world since trillions of dollars have been spent on the 'War on terror'? There is now more terrorism! Why? due to the amount of civillian casualties from both sides and the 'blame game' that keeps the human race separated from each other. Unfortunately at the same time destroying the 'other' occupiers of this fragile amazing planet that we all live on and take so for granted."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #365 January 6, 2009 QuoteIt didn't do anything but line Arafats pockets. Arafat did nothing but look out for his own interests just like Hamas is doing. Their only interest is war. Hamas can't see beyond their hate. Hamas doesn't really care about the Palestinian people. If the two nation policy ever does come to fruition Arafat will be remembered as one of the key enablers. As far as Hamas not caring about the Palestinian people, would you say that Churchill did not care about the British people? His decision to bomb German cities cost many, many civilian English lives, but it was essential to victory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
434 2 #366 January 6, 2009 Palestina http://www.nettavisen.no/verden/article2493241.ece Israel http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/midtosten/artikkel.php?artid=539478 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #367 January 6, 2009 Quote ...just read what the Palestinian have to put up with every single day. Isn't this mainly because they continue to be branded refugees, even by other Arab states, and aren't allowed to live outside of the refugee camps?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #368 January 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteIt didn't do anything but line Arafats pockets. Arafat did nothing but look out for his own interests just like Hamas is doing. Their only interest is war. Hamas can't see beyond their hate. Hamas doesn't really care about the Palestinian people. If the two nation policy ever does come to fruition Arafat will be remembered as one of the key enablers. As far as Hamas not caring about the Palestinian people, would you say that Churchill did not care about the British people? His decision to bomb German cities cost many, many civilian English lives, but it was essential to victory. So is Churchill represented here by Hamas, or the Israelis? Seems like you could use it either way, and the more probable result (victor) suggests the Israelis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #369 January 7, 2009 QuoteWhat now? You sit put and watching? Do you remember your history? Do they remember how they got treated and how the land got ripped apart between their hands? Would have been an interesting scenery to watch from outside! I know that history well.. I have native American ancestry as well as european. The term assimilate or be exterminated comes to mind. My European ancestry was FLEE or be exterminated by the winning English group... they did their damndest to exterminate.. but my ancestors got away to the continent and then to America. The Palistinians could have stayed at home... and become Israeli citizens. about 20% of the population of Israel is Arab. Those who emmigrated or fled... lost everything, just like MOST human beings who lost in war. Since Darius has got such a hardon for getting the Palistinian's thier lands back... I want him to be as vehement in his approach for native american rights... I want all the usurpers on my land to GO HOME. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #370 January 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteIt didn't do anything but line Arafats pockets. Arafat did nothing but look out for his own interests just like Hamas is doing. Their only interest is war. Hamas can't see beyond their hate. Hamas doesn't really care about the Palestinian people. If the two nation policy ever does come to fruition Arafat will be remembered as one of the key enablers. As far as Hamas not caring about the Palestinian people, would you say that Churchill did not care about the British people? His decision to bomb German cities cost many, many civilian English lives, but it was essential to victory. That is the most ridiculus example yet. Comparing Arafat to Churchill??!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #371 January 7, 2009 QuoteSo a teacher that is punched by a student should then punch the said student to show him who is boss? No, the teacher is entitled to punch the student back in self-defense. This self-defense is both direct and indirect. The direct self-defense is immediate: it reasonably seeks to stop the offending student from attacking him further. This is the basic right to self-defense that all parties have. The indirect self-defense is deterrence: it sets an example for the other bullies that if they attack the teacher, they can be assured that the teacher will strike back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #372 January 7, 2009 QuoteBecause for some reason its ok when the Israelis kill people even with there better equipment and much more advanced army. But if an Arab does it he is a “Terrorist” Hypocrisy. Bullcrap. Israel doesn't DELIBERATELY target civilians - Hamas does. Israel doesn't use innocents as human shields - Hamas does.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #373 January 7, 2009 Quote the magic negro Ooh; ouch. Jeez, John, you sure make it hard to be your team-mate. Your play is spot on, but you're killin' us on penalties. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #374 January 7, 2009 Quote Quote The whole situation is depressing, especially since we will do nothing to help work towards a solution until after the 20th. Hopefully the 21st will bring some positive input. I'm sure it will be better than the last 8 years, I just don't know by how much. Talk about the audacity of hope! More like the audacity of hype. Obama is keeping his mouth shut on this issue - afraid to take a stand one way or the other. After the 20th, he's going to have to come out of the closet and quit being a scaredy-cat. His timidness does not bode well for his decisiveness as a president. But it's typical of his previous politics - he plays both sides of the fence, and doesn't take decisive stands. In the past Obama has made statements completely supporting Israel - just like Bush. So if you think he's going to be different somehow, then you haven't paid close enough attention to him. And to believe that somehow the magic negro is going to be able to solve the Israeli/Palestinian crises, where all others have failed, just shows how unrealistic your expectations are. Obama is not even in office yet, and already he's getting embroiled in controversy, over cabinet picks and relationships with other questionable people. Just wait until the media honeymoon is over and they actually start paying attention. I think Obama is being pretty smart here. He doesn't need to say anything. I have no doubt that he fully supports the ation against Hamas which is in fact a action against Irans inluence in the region. So he keeps his trap shut and lets GW Bush cop the flak that way he get to keep his name claen and impartial so he has a better chance of diplomacy with the Arab and Islamic countries. For all their vocal discordance the Arab countries quietly look the other way as they don't want to see Hamas in a strong posistion as they are very much Irans bidders in the region. On the other hand this attack has not accomplished anything other than a pruning of Hamas. It has done nthing to stop the rocket attacks and for every Hamas man they kill two will rush to pick up his rifle. After the initial attacks this whole attack has been counter productive to Israels aims of self defence and has damaged its international reputation still further. As for 'Magic Negro' I think the politically correct term is 'Black Magic'When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #375 January 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteBecause for some reason its ok when the Israelis kill people even with there better equipment and much more advanced army. But if an Arab does it he is a “Terrorist” Hypocrisy. Bullcrap. Israel doesn't DELIBERATELY target civilians - Hamas does. Israel doesn't use innocents as human shields - Hamas does.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
