Sockin' It to Hamas

[Skyrad 0]

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That's why MidEast threads are a waste of energy - they're just vorteces that suck in everything without discrimination, and give back nothing productive.

Yep

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

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Hamas was firing rockets from civilian areas knowing FULL WELL what would happen

I will translate...

"Israel are allowed to start slaughtering innocent people by the hundreds"

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

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When someone ATTACKS you.... you hit them back with the best WAR that MONEY can buy. I applaud the efforts of the Israeli's to hit the people who attack them and refuse to make peace.

Yeah its attacking when your land and all it's resources are systematically taken away from you and your living conditions are essentially an annexed prison.

Well done you understand 60 years of Middle East history and the role of Israel on the global stage in relation to clearly defined laws. You get smarter every time I check back in here.

[mnealtx 0]

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You get smarter every time I check back in here.

Unfortunately, the reverse doesn't apply.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Hamas was firing rockets from civilian areas knowing FULL WELL what would happen

I will translate...

"Israel are allowed to start slaughtering innocent people by the hundreds"

bzzzt.

I didn't say what Israel is or is not ALLOWED to do.

I was only pointing out that Hamas is NOT acting within the best interests of the Palestinians.

Hamas is in fact exploiting Palestinians, and doing so in such a way that it endangers Palestinian civilians. The cartoon I posted says it all, really.

If you think Hamas' strategy was good for the Palestinian cause, please explain why.

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[Amazon 7]

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Yeah its attacking when your land and all it's resources are systematically taken away from you and your living conditions are essentially an annexed prison.

Well done you understand 60 years of Middle East history and the role of Israel on the global stage in relation to clearly defined laws. You get smarter every time I check back in here.

The "Palistinian" people had a hell of a lot more land outside of the borders of Israel as set at the time of the creation of the State of Israel. Within moments after the officla creation of the state.. the Arab forces attacked and butchered large numbers of people. They are the ones who started the war. It is not their fault that their enemies are GOAT FUCK STUPID and have continued to attack the State of Israel and they lost more and more land. That is what happens when you attack people and you LOSE. Those that ran away and left everything and joined the forces arrayed against Israel lost what they left behind. There were MANY arabs who stayed and became citizens of Israel instead of continueing to live under the repressive regimes of Israels enemies.

Because of that the Israeli's have consolodated their borders and made for a defensible land since their neighbors did not show a willingness to make peace. After the initial success of the Arabs in 1973 they were losing BIG. The Israeli's were poised to completely obliterate the Egytian army. After that cease fire... cooler heads decided that it was time to stop being GOAT FUCK STUPID and make peace. The Jordanians and the Egyptians did so... and Israel withdrew from LARGE tracts of the captured land. Funny about that. They were willing to live in peace with their neighbors.. I still see a bunch of their neighbors who are not willing to live in peace and make no effort what so ever to do so. Perhaps someday Hamas and Hezbollah will tire of killing their own people as pawns to make morons believe how evil the Israeli's are by attacking those who want no peace and continue to make war. If someone is shooting at me.... I am MORE than willing and able to shoot back..... something that seems to be lost on the leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Here's an interesting opinion piece on the situation:

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/war_on_gaza/2009/01/2009119102548942367.html
YES it's on Al Jazeera!

Whether you tend to sympathize more for Israel or more for Palestinians, the fact is that Hamas has their heads up their asses. They are mindlessly lashing out, and continuing to use a strategy that history has shown DOESN'T FUCKING WORK!

And as long as Hamas continues with this bullshit, Israel can keep pointing at the security threat, and the two-state solution will never come to be.

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[StreetScooby 5]

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And as long as Hamas continues with this bullshit, Israel can keep pointing at the security threat, and the two-state solution will never come to be.

Hamas doesn't even acknowledge Palestine as a state. It's never been a state. It's considered a part of a larger Muslim nation.

We are all engines of karma

[BillyVance 34]

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And Hamas was hoping to capitalize on the civilian collateral damage that they knew would happen when Israel finally retaliated.

Nice attachment. I liked the editorial comic in the paper the other day of a monkey doing a test supervised by two scientists. He attempts to pull a switch but gets bonked on the head by a giant mallet. THEN he reaches for the switch again, and the scientists say to each other "see? he'll do it again regardless!" or something like that. The word "Hamas" was written on the monkey's back.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[idrankwhat 0]

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Here's an interesting opinion piece on the situation:

Here's another interesting piece. It's a few weeks old but the argument that the Gaza offensive was political is one that you don't hear about on CNN. The timing certainly seems to fit. The whole article is pretty good but skim past the war crimes argument and you get to this:

Timing of Israel’s Attack on Gaza

The Israeli decision to launch the attacks on Gaza was a political, not security, decision. Just a day or two before the airstrikes, it was Israel that rejected Hamas’s diplomatic initiative aimed at extending the six-month-long ceasefire that had frayed but largely stayed together since June, and that expired 26 December. Hamas officials, working through Egyptian mediators, had urged Israel to lift the siege of Gaza as the basis for continuing an extended ceasefire. Israel, including Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, of the “centrist” (in the Israeli context) Kadima Party, rejected the proposal. Livni, who went to Egypt but refused to seriously consider the Hamas offer, is running in a tight race for prime minister; her top opponent is the further-right Benyamin Netanyahu of the officially hawkish Likud party, who has campaigned against Livni and the Kadima government for their alleged “soft” approach to the Palestinians. With elections looming in February, no candidate can afford to appear anything but super-militaristic.

Further, it is certain that the Israeli government was eager to move militarily while Bush was still in office. The Washington Post quoted a Bush administration official saying that Israel struck in Gaza “because they want it to be over before the next administration comes in. They can’t predict how the next administration will handle it. And this is not the way they want to start with the new administration.”

http://www.ips-dc.org/articles/983


Edited to add: IMO, to say that Hamas could have been just a bit more patient after the failed December proposal is an understatement. Then again, if Israel won't open the blockade after a ceasefire then what would have been the appropriate response?

[Andy9o8 0]

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Edited to add: IMO, to say that Hamas could have been just a bit more patient after the failed December proposal is an understatement. Then again, if Israel won't open the blockade after a ceasefire then what would have been the appropriate response?

I suppose that depends on the ethical definition of "appropriate" - say, from the standpoint of the best interests of the Palestinian population.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Edited to add: IMO, to say that Hamas could have been just a bit more patient after the failed December proposal is an understatement. Then again, if Israel won't open the blockade after a ceasefire then what would have been the appropriate response?

I suppose that depends on the ethical definition of "appropriate" - say, from the standpoint of the best interests of the Palestinian population.

The blockade has been punishing the Gazans for over a year and a half. Then the (relative) cease fire does nothing to lift the blockade. The international community can do little to help. Fatah is no help. So what's the "appropriate" thing to do? Wait some more? Darfurians would probably advise against that tactic. This whole situation stinks.
Hopefully today's "end of an error" will be the end of this error. I'm not going to hold my breath but I'll cross my fingers for good luck. Maybe Obama will utilize his Secretary of State elsewhere and bring in a special envoy to deal with the matter, someone like Jimmy Carter. Although admittedly, bringing in ANYONE to deal with the matter would be a step in the right direction.

[beowulf 1]

The tactic of more violence favored by Hamas isn't helping any. It's just getting even more violence by the Israelis.

The only tactic that the Palestinians really have is peaceful demonstration. That would garner more international backing of the Palestinians and people would have a more diffcult time backing the Israelis. This violence by Hamas makes it easier for people to back Israel.

[idrankwhat 0]

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The only tactic that the Palestinians really have is peaceful demonstration.

Our news won't show what's happening in Gaza regardless of what they're doing. If suffering and starving won't get you on the telly, what's to make them think that a sit-in will? And the vast majority of the Gazans have been peaceful. It's gotten them nothing, as I pointed out, even Fatah has been useless. The only people that the Gazans see as working towards an end to the blockade is Hamas. Their tactics are counterproductive but in many Palestinian's eyes they're at least trying to bring about a change. That's one of the reasons that support for Hamas is still strong, and quite possibly, stronger.

[beowulf 1]

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The only tactic that the Palestinians really have is peaceful demonstration.

Our news won't show what's happening in Gaza regardless of what they're doing. If suffering and starving won't get you on the telly, what's to make them think that a sit-in will? And the vast majority of the Gazans have been peaceful. It's gotten them nothing, as I pointed out, even Fatah has been useless. The only people that the Gazans see as working towards an end to the blockade is Hamas. Their tactics are counterproductive but in many Palestinian's eyes they're at least trying to bring about a change. That's one of the reasons that support for Hamas is still strong, and quite possibly, stronger.

The Hamas tactics are not getting anywhere. They are only giving Israel more excuses to attack. The Palestininans are stupid for supporting Hamas.

[Amazon 7]

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Here's an interesting opinion piece on the situation:

It is my opinion that Hamas and Hezbollah in general are GOAT FUCK STUPID. First off they take their orders and help from another group of people who are GOAT FUCK STUPID.

The Iranians have been off in muhammad world for a while now thanks to the Ayatollah. They dont seem to want to live in this world and eventually we are going to have to show a few million of them the exit to their idea of paradise.


At that point those left alive MIGHT want to try to live with their neighbors in peace.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The only tactic that the Palestinians really have is peaceful demonstration.

Our news won't show what's happening in Gaza regardless of what they're doing.

This the same news that was reporting on the Israel attacks every day?

If entire towns all sat down in the plaza, there would be coverage, and history suggests this is one of the few effective means against a vastly superior force. It's also a hell of a lot easier to get international pressure on the closed borders (be it Egypt or Israel) if something other than weapons were going to be imported and not used to attack. Your cited article points out the obvious - launching indiscriminate missiles against cities is not defensible behavior.

[idrankwhat 0]

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The Hamas tactics are not getting anywhere. They are only giving Israel more excuses to attack. The Palestininans are stupid for supporting Hamas.

I agree, but not fighting gained them nothing as well. How long should they sit and wait for the blockade to end?

[idrankwhat 0]

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This the same news that was reporting on the Israel attacks every day?

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Yes, that's the one. Bombs make for great, marketable footage. How much coverage have you gotten over the last year and a half about the blockade or the humanitarian crisis created by the blockade? I didn't hear much until rockets and bombs started flying. And even then the blockade was only mentioned as a Hamas talking point.

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If entire towns all sat down in the plaza, there would be coverage, and history suggests this is one of the few effective means against a vastly superior force. It's also a hell of a lot easier to get international pressure on the closed borders (be it Egypt or Israel) if something other than weapons were going to be imported and not used to attack.

Maybe here in the US it would. Most people in Gaza are sitting down. There's not much more to do right now other than sit down or look for a meal. And there's plenty of international criticism, but you rarely hear that here.
And things other than weapons do come through the tunnels.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7673893.stm


Your cited article points out the obvious - launching indiscriminate missiles against cities is not defensible behavior.

It also points out the obvious, that Israel's exponential response in kind is not defensible behavior.

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[beowulf 1]

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The Hamas tactics are not getting anywhere. They are only giving Israel more excuses to attack. The Palestininans are stupid for supporting Hamas.

I agree, but not fighting gained them nothing as well. How long should they sit and wait for the blockade to end?

Not fighting gained them less dead.
Hamas has proven fairly well that violence is useless tactic and only leads to more dead people on both sides, but a majority on the Palestinian side.

[idrankwhat 0]

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At that point those left alive MIGHT want to try to live with their neighbors in peace.

Yea, casinos go a long way towards repairing the the damage done to nations of people.

[billvon 2,400]

>Hamas has proven fairly well that violence is useless tactic and only leads
>to more dead people on both sides, but a majority on the Palestinian
>side.

And Israel has proven the same thing. But both sides have a vested interest in not learning that lesson.

[Amazon 7]

Perhaps you might look at some of the little countries around the world and their tourism... and their planning for a future.

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Yea, casinos go a long way towards repairing the the damage done to nations of people.

When you start talking that way I can trace ancestry to a couple differnt first nations peoples... if you dont like it here GO THE FUCK HOME to Europe.

[beowulf 1]

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>Hamas has proven fairly well that violence is useless tactic and only leads
>to more dead people on both sides, but a majority on the Palestinian
>side.

And Israel has proven the same thing. But both sides have a vested interest in not learning that lesson.

Yeah and thats why I don't like either side of this fucked up mess. I can't stand both Israelis or Palestinians. They are both a bunch of fucked up morons.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Perhaps you might look at some of the little countries around the world and their tourism... and their planning for a future.

Like Lebanon? The "No Reservations" show with Anthony Bourdain made it look like a nice place to spend some tourist dollars, until the bombing started.

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Yea, casinos go a long way towards repairing the the damage done to nations of people.

When you start talking that way I can trace ancestry to a couple differnt first nations peoples... if you dont like it here GO THE FUCK HOME to Europe.