kallend 1,632 #1 September 7, 2008 Paulson acts: www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=ajcw4yxxPGJ8&refer=news... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #2 September 7, 2008 Better than simply throwing them another $50B in capital without dumping the management. Now, my question is this: what will they do with it now that they control it? I favor a slow dissolution and privatization.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,632 #3 September 7, 2008 Well, it seems Sarah Palin's smoking pot is more important to SC than a major story about the US economy ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #4 September 8, 2008 Quote Paulson acts: www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=ajcw4yxxPGJ8&refer=newsAs usual the stockholders and the taxpayers are going to get fucked. Interesting as to how this will play out. Hope the CEOs get a Ken Lay.I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #5 September 8, 2008 Hardly unexpected. Responsible people have to bailout everyone again. Not sure how I feel about this right now. My first reaction is one of anger and revulsion, but there's a bit more to this than meets the eye. Part of me undertands it and I might have done the same thing in Mr. Paulson's position. Must think on this a bit. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #6 September 8, 2008 Quote I favor a slow dissolution and privatization. I say pull the plug on the fuckers and let them DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why doesnt the Govt let the free market take it's due course like they always claim is the best course? This is complete bullshit! The executives drive these companies into the ground, walk away with their golden parachute and fuck the tax payers with the tab. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #7 September 8, 2008 love the bullshit Friday evening timing on this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #8 September 8, 2008 It's not a clear cut as you make it seem. Fannie and Freddie need to be bailed out or else it would be catastrophic to our economy and god only knows what it would do to the economies of other countries. The executives didn't drive these institutions to the ground like Enron. There are so many parties to blame for this mess. A few years ago I knew a 21 kid with no college degree in the mortgage biz. He told me of how he would push loans to people he knew down the line could not afford the homes when the rates would rise. You're completely overlooking the rampant fraudulent lending practices that some institutions used. You cannot point the finger at one sector and blame them for this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joedirt 0 #9 September 8, 2008 About a year ago I didn't worry too much about the bailout talk, but in the words of Bob Dylan as an old man "Things have changed". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #10 September 8, 2008 Wow Nationalisation in America - damned Commies (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joedirt 0 #11 September 8, 2008 Quote I favor a slow dissolution and privatization. Not a terrible idea... but it ain't gonna happen. Haven't they tried to entice investors already who said "Ummm... no thanks". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #12 September 8, 2008 QuoteQuote I favor a slow dissolution and privatization. Not a terrible idea... but it ain't gonna happen. Haven't they tried to entice investors already who said "Ummm... no thanks". Even with Fannie and Freddy being semi-governemntal, the US saw some very predatory practices by lenders, all in the name of profit in the Mortgage industry. Dissolution and privatization will only lead to more morally bankrupt practices by big lenders. Yeah, thats the ticket.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #13 September 8, 2008 Quote Quote Quote I favor a slow dissolution and privatization. Not a terrible idea... but it ain't gonna happen. Haven't they tried to entice investors already who said "Ummm... no thanks". Even with Fannie and Freddy being semi-governemntal, the US saw some very predatory practices by lenders, all in the name of profit in the Mortgage industry. Dissolution and privatization will only lead to more morally bankrupt practices by big lenders. Yeah, thats the ticket. Less places to hide. It's way better than burying them in a government bureaucracy. I think it would be even better if they were dismantled and done away with. Force a market solution, not all corporations are "evil". It takes two to tangle -- Joe and Mary Homeowner played the odds, signed the paper, thought they could never lose, used their house like an ATM instead of an investment. I'd rather a corporation lose that money than us the taxpayer have to fit the bill....which is what we're on the line for now. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #14 September 8, 2008 Quote He told me of how he would push loans to people he knew down the line could not afford the homes when the rates would rise. You're completely overlooking the rampant fraudulent lending practices that some institutions used. You cannot point the finger at one sector and blame them for this. and then as gawain points out...many people mishandled the responsibility of property ownership...over bought, or tapped the house for seconds, and equity loans, to "catch up on bills",, ( consolidate.... was the official lingo...)only they simply extended the payback on those bills, and backed it with real estate that may or may not have been able to stand the test of time.i have sometimes thought that the Real estate industry, the mortgage industry, the appraisal people , and yes even attorneys,,, orchestrated the scenerio which led to the housing bubble . It took 20 or 30 years, but in many many places, the price of houses rocketed... . Intentionally or not, they all led the housing market to an unrealistic surge....especially the last 10 years or so...... and it happened,," because they said so.."... appraisers pushed the limits, the real estate folks, loved it, cause they all worked on commision...banks saw mortgage loan AMOUNTS, climbing,, and when that happens, and you're making interest on it...it's a good deal.. The 'keeping up with the Jones' aspect of American Society kicked in,,,and Attorneys just greased the wheels. They made it all happen, took their cut... and prices went sky high, in many places... Now we are told that these lenders, are broke??? well sure the foreclosure rate is up, but the VAST majority of people are managing to stay ahead of things. lots of people were smart,, and did NOT over buy... "just cause they could have"... those who failed to follow that approach, sadly, now pay the piper....For a mortgage of an 100,00 dollars, at 10 % interest , over a 20 year span, ( 240 months) requires a total payback of 231,600 dollars. a 30 yr term brings 415,720 back to the lender.. of course that's over a long time... but what i'm driving at, is for alll the years where loans were being paid, and monthly payments were continuing, and the majority of borrowers were doing ok....those outfits took in lots and lots of $$$$$... which i presume they were using to lend to the next person... I think rates today, are in the area of 6 % but when we bought in the mid 80's they were 14.... i used 10 % in the example because it was easy to look up...still don't see how they can be that bad off... the Pay scale for the people who work at these places sure must be good. cause it seems like they had a money making operation... it seems that taxpayes money ceases to be theirs the instant it leaves our hands, heck we never even see it, if it's withheld.... that money i guess, can be used for whatever the govt. wants...i'd rather see it being used to help those in a jam, than to re supply the coffers of a pair of companies who seemingly have just demonstrated their insolvency... Government In Action jt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #15 September 8, 2008 For every ATM cashing out of the house there are many more loans issued to people that shouldn't have been approved in the first place. One of my good friends got a loan he probally should have ever been approved for. He was just graduated from college the previous year with a ton of student loan debt and was job hopping outside his college education (majored in Computers and was job hopping in construction), was getting married to someone that was making 20k a year at a job she had been at for less then 6 months They both had car loans and no savings or a real down payment and yet they were approved for a loan on a 110k home. They went for an ARM with the goal that he'd find a steady job and they would both make more money in the future. Luckly for them it worked out but there are a lot of people that got loans they should have never been approved for and couldn't make the payments on it.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #16 September 8, 2008 Quote Wow Nationalisation in America - damned Commies I wasn't gonna say it but that was my thought yesterday. Especially since the treasury grabbed a couple million shares of stock and said fuck the shareholders and the taxpayersI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #17 September 8, 2008 QuoteQuote Paulson acts: www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=ajcw4yxxPGJ8&refer=newsAs usual the stockholders and the taxpayers are going to get fucked. Interesting as to how this will play out. Hope the CEOs get a Ken Lay. We can also thank Barny Frank for stopping tougher oversite once Bush fired the CEO in what 92?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #18 September 9, 2008 Oh boy, the shit has really got deeper. Remain calm and try to backfloat, shit is still thicker than water..... Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krabberkris 1 #19 September 9, 2008 In addition ... The automakers are asking the Guvment for 50 BILLION to stay afloat. One bad executive decision after the other on their part. Dump it on the taxpayer . Doesn't it make you sick that no corrupt and high-profile housing/mortgage/banking CEO who enriched himself during the bubble has been arrested yet, while the US taxpayer is now on the hook for hundreds of billions in losses? They simply capitalize their gains and socialize the losses. SICK !!!!!! Where's my bottle......The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krabberkris 1 #20 September 9, 2008 And I still crack up over the replies I got here on this board about HR3221. When they (SENATE) sat down for that emergency session on a Saturday , I freaked. Literally.The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #21 September 9, 2008 QuoteThe executives drive these companies into the ground, walk away with their golden parachute and fuck the tax payers with the tab. I'm pissed about that, too. Really pissed. But, I agree with Gawain, ultimately.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #22 September 9, 2008 QuoteIt takes two to tangle -- Joe and Mary Homeowner played the odds, This is true. But the bail out is only gonna help one side. Quote I'd rather a corporation lose that money than us the taxpayer have to fit the bill.... I like to see both lose in the end. These dumb fucks who signed the papers and the comapny who gave them the papers to sign need to lose in the end. They played the game and lost. Why do I have to pay for their loss?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #23 September 9, 2008 Quote I like to see both lose in the end. These dumb fucks who signed the papers and the comapny who gave them the papers to sign need to lose in the end. They played the game and lost. Why do I have to pay for their loss? I feel the exact same way, but as my father always told me, "You're being too idealistic, child." Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #24 September 9, 2008 Hey remember, you're living in Corporate America not Customer America. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #25 September 9, 2008 QuoteI feel the exact same way, but as my father always told me, "You're being too idealistic, child." Yeah I know. But now there is a major wave of people lookin for a bail out. Bear Sterns, Fanni & Freddie, now Lehman Bro's and AIG are knockin on the back door because they are on the verge of failure. When does this end. When will the Govt finally reach down and grab their balls and tell these guys you got yourself in this position with your piss poor management find your own way out. The piggy bank is closed!If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
