"Less Guns = Less Gun Crime!"

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John, anything reported in the Sun is to be taken with a pinch of salt.

So, when "The Sun" quotes Home Office figures, then they're just making those numbers up and lying about them?

The Sun gets it's figures from the Home office, The Home office just like any other government dept, are masters at the numbers game.

John if you're really interested in English gun law and the governments lies an deceit that have eroded the
the honest persons right to enjoy gun ownership I suggest you have a look at this http://members.aol.com/Gunbancon/Main.html
site.

Here is part of a speech ( 1997 Firearms amendment no.2 act.) made in the British parliament by the right honorable Anthony Colman MP
quote. I remind hon. Members that a .22 pistol can kill at a range of more than two miles. end quote

When a country has idiots like that helping to form it's laws, the best one can do is to get out of the country.
I did an have never looked back.

Gone fishing

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UK is a crap example to use against gun bans, it is a different nation, different gun mentality, the British on the whole don't care and they don't have or want a 2nd amendment, one day you might realize that.

What other nation recently changed to a total ban, not to mention was the basis for much of our government and system of law? There's no better example out there than England, however much the two have diverged in 2 centuries.

Plus, if what SFC is true and you can't compare the U.S. with the U.K., then there really is nowhere you can compare with the U.S., and so anyone who says to us that other countries have gun bans so we should too, should STFU!

You can't say that we can't compare the two countries when it makes gun bans look idiotic, and then say that the countries are similar enough that we ought to try out the gun bans they've been attempting.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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When a country has idiots like that helping to form it's laws, the best one can do is to get out of the country.
I did an have never looked back.

Then you are welcome here, as far as I am concerned.


Some would criticize you, saying that if you didn't like your country you should have stayed and, I dunno, "worked for change."

Yeah, right. Others, like me, would say that a smart man can look around him and see when the critical mass of morons has been reached and there is really no hope for the smart people to wrest back control and get things fixed. I think that the U.K. is going to have to go through a bitter, agonizing, severe decline before sense returns to the folks there, on the whole.

In the meantime, send the freedom-loving ones here, where there is at least still hope.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[ScottishJohn 25]

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So again. What the fuck good is a gun in a safe if someone breaks in your house in the middle of the nite.

Maybe we should just hide our guns under the drivers seat of unlocked cars. That's got to be way more sensible.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers

[rushmc 18]

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I've been around long enough to know John has nothing against the UK

Bollocks. UK bashing is one of John's favourite passtimes. The irony is that he absolutely hates it when someone bashes the US.

I dont agree. While the UK is used as an example it is an example only. He used the UK, (as I am going to do here) to show the waste of time it is to ban guns.(anywhere but the point is aimed at the US ban supporters) Why? because banning guns only effects the law abiding, not the criminals.

Please reference the following.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Zep 0]

Actually I left England before the blanket gun ban, an managed to sell my shotguns an rifle before the government stole them.
A new an very unfair tax law introduced in the early 90's drove me out.

Gone fishing

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UK is a crap example to use against gun bans, it is a different nation, different gun mentality, the British on the whole don't care and they don't have or want a 2nd amendment, one day you might realize that.

What other nation recently changed to a total ban, not to mention was the basis for much of our government and system of law? There's no better example out there than England, however much the two have diverged in 2 centuries.

Plus, if what SFC is true and you can't compare the U.S. with the U.K., then there really is nowhere you can compare with the U.S., and so anyone who says to us that other countries have gun bans so we should too, should STFU!

You can't say that we can't compare the two countries when it makes gun bans look idiotic, and then say that the countries are similar enough that we ought to try out the gun bans they've been attempting.

Pro-gun folks are always using this argument to criticize gun laws in other countries. Given the SCOTUS ruling and the general sentiment in this country do you really think that there is a chance guns will be banned in the same kind of way they are in the UK? I don't think so.
The kinds of threads that John post are BS and just designed to stir shit that prevents dialog towards figuring out what can really be done about reducing the number of criminals getting guns.
If I suggest something like registration I get the pro-gun folks frothing at the mouth. I support the 2nd amendment, I am pro-gun but I want a meaningful effort to reduce illegal guns, hearing about guns laws in the UK which don't apply to the US is crap and makes pro-gun look like the idiot politicians who mostly do nothing but BS on our dime.

[JohnRich 4]

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The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away.
One of the things I like about guns in the USA is that I have had fun shooting that I could never do when I lived in the UK.

So you appreciate having the right to shoot guns,
but you're against the NRA trying to preserve your right to shoot guns.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[JohnRich 4]

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Latest news

A guy with a previous criminal record, forbidden to own a gun, and he managed to get a gun anyway, despite law prohibiting it.

So I guess those laws aren't worth a hoot.

And a history of severe mental disorders, but the state left him free to wander the streets anyway, instead of taking care of him or protecting the public from him.

And despite all these failures, it's the gun's fault that this happened. Uh-huh.

[JohnRich 4]

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do you really think that there is a chance guns will be banned in the same kind of way they are in the UK? I don't think so.

All it will take is for the Dem's to win the Senate majority, just a handful of seats, and for Obama to win the Presidency, which is about a 50-50 possibility right now. Then, with the Dems in charge of all three of those legislative and executive branches of government - yes, it's very possible. Almost certain. There would be nothing to stop them.

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If I suggest something like registration I get the pro-gun folks frothing at the mouth.

That's because registration has never proven to be effective at preventing crime. Anywhere.

And this is the kind of stuff you use to claim that pro-gun folks aren't willing to do anything to fight gun crime. That's not true. They're just not willing to do stupid stuff, like your registration suggestion, that is proven useless, and which leads to infringements of their rights.

[kallend 1,654]

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Latest news

A guy with a previous criminal record, forbidden to own a gun, and he managed to get a gun anyway, despite law prohibiting it.

So I guess those laws aren't worth a hoot.

.

Right, just as I have been claiming for a long time. It's too easy for loonies and criminals to circumvent the CURRENT gutless laws.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

We're still waiting for you to tell us how to prevent criminals and mentally ill people from getting guns.

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No it's not a bash of the UK. It's a bash of the UK's gun control policies because we don't want to have a right taken away for a pipe dream.

You need to look at John's record of posting UK bashing threads, he has posted crap about guns and the UK for years and will probably continue to do so for years to come.

The UK has never had a right to guns like the USA, so no right has been taken away. "pipe dream", that is bullshit, gun crime is way lower in the UK than the USA, it always has been and that is no pipe dream, and most people want to keep it that way. I lived in the UK for my first 30 years, so I know that most people don't give a shit about not being able to own guns.
It is a different culture, if you don't like it move out, I did (although not for the gun reason).

I've been around long enough to know John has nothing against the UK and simply likes to show gun bans around the world are not working. How do you brits not get that? Keep your gun ban if you like....that's fine with us but as long as you do us progunners will conitnue to use it as a good example of what we don't want and why.

Now quit taking it so damn personally. Also when referring to the 'UK gun ban' we are referring to the ban enacted in your country in 1997.

Nothing personal, I don't care about the UK gun ban, I haven't lived there for 8 years.
UK is a crap example to use against gun bans, it is a different nation, different gun mentality, the British on the whole don't care and they don't have or want a 2nd amendment, one day you might realize that.
All the BS stats people post about guns here should have told you one thing and that is that you can find stats to prove anything you want.

The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away. I had hoped that the SCOTUS ruling would have helped put that to rest but I guess not.
One of the things I like about guns in the USA is that I have had fun shooting that I could never do when I lived in the UK.

I realize you're a brit but you really need to become more informed regarding this issue. As far as the SCOTUS ruling....do you realize the same man who took this issue all the way to the Supreme Court STILL CAN'T register his firearm? Think about for a minute.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[kallend 1,654]

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We're still waiting for you to tell us how to prevent criminals and mentally ill people from getting guns.

Posted ages ago - memory getting bad?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Rookie120 0]

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Posted ages ago - memory getting bad?

Refresh our memory. I cannot find your brilliant plan. For FUCK sake. Getting a straight answer out of you is about as hard as getting Obama to explain what CHANGE is. Empty bullshit once again.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

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The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away.
One of the things I like about guns in the USA is that I have had fun shooting that I could never do when I lived in the UK.

So you appreciate having the right to shoot guns,
but you're against the NRA trying to preserve your right to shoot guns.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Twisting words as usual, I am not against the NRA preserving rights, I am against the NRA block all and every attempt to crack down on the illegal gun trade.

[rushmc 18]

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The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away.
One of the things I like about guns in the USA is that I have had fun shooting that I could never do when I lived in the UK.

So you appreciate having the right to shoot guns,
but you're against the NRA trying to preserve your right to shoot guns.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Twisting words as usual, I am not against the NRA preserving rights, I am against the NRA block all and every attempt to crack down on the illegal gun trade.

Really??

What specifically is the NRA doing to keep illegal gun trading going?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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do you really think that there is a chance guns will be banned in the same kind of way they are in the UK? I don't think so.

All it will take is for the Dem's to win the Senate majority, just a handful of seats, and for Obama to win the Presidency, which is about a 50-50 possibility right now. Then, with the Dems in charge of all three of those legislative and executive branches of government - yes, it's very possible. Almost certain. There would be nothing to stop them.

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If I suggest something like registration I get the pro-gun folks frothing at the mouth.

That's because registration has never proven to be effective at preventing crime. Anywhere.

And this is the kind of stuff you use to claim that pro-gun folks aren't willing to do anything to fight gun crime. That's not true. They're just not willing to do stupid stuff, like your registration suggestion, that is proven useless, and which leads to infringements of their rights.

SCOTUS has upheld the constitutional right for the individual to bear arms, I don't think the dems will ever get a majority big enough to change the constitution, that takes more than 50% of cogress and most of the state governments, you should know that what with you being an American.

So tell me what do you think should be done to cut the illegal gun trade. All I get from reading your posts is an angry man wanting to prevent any gun control legislation from being enacted regardless of its intent. You piss on every idea that anyone suggests and post BS about other countries that don't even come close to the scale of the illegal gun trade the USA has.

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No it's not a bash of the UK. It's a bash of the UK's gun control policies because we don't want to have a right taken away for a pipe dream.

You need to look at John's record of posting UK bashing threads, he has posted crap about guns and the UK for years and will probably continue to do so for years to come.

The UK has never had a right to guns like the USA, so no right has been taken away. "pipe dream", that is bullshit, gun crime is way lower in the UK than the USA, it always has been and that is no pipe dream, and most people want to keep it that way. I lived in the UK for my first 30 years, so I know that most people don't give a shit about not being able to own guns.
It is a different culture, if you don't like it move out, I did (although not for the gun reason).

I've been around long enough to know John has nothing against the UK and simply likes to show gun bans around the world are not working. How do you brits not get that? Keep your gun ban if you like....that's fine with us but as long as you do us progunners will conitnue to use it as a good example of what we don't want and why.

Now quit taking it so damn personally. Also when referring to the 'UK gun ban' we are referring to the ban enacted in your country in 1997.

Nothing personal, I don't care about the UK gun ban, I haven't lived there for 8 years.
UK is a crap example to use against gun bans, it is a different nation, different gun mentality, the British on the whole don't care and they don't have or want a 2nd amendment, one day you might realize that.
All the BS stats people post about guns here should have told you one thing and that is that you can find stats to prove anything you want.

The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away. I had hoped that the SCOTUS ruling would have helped put that to rest but I guess not.
One of the things I like about guns in the USA is that I have had fun shooting that I could never do when I lived in the UK.

I realize you're a brit but you really need to become more informed regarding this issue. As far as the SCOTUS ruling....do you realize the same man who took this issue all the way to the Supreme Court STILL CAN'T register his firearm? Think about for a minute.

You've got to love the American legal system, it is slow. He will get his gun registered it is just a matter of time, probably years knowing the way that the system works.

[christelsabine 1]

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When a country has idiots like that helping to form it's laws, the best one can do is to get out of the country.
I did an have never looked back.

Then you are welcome here, as far as I am concerned.
....

In the meantime, send the freedom-loving ones here, where there is at least still hope.

Here?? You're living in Spain, too? Great choice

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[downwardspiral 0]

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No it's not a bash of the UK. It's a bash of the UK's gun control policies because we don't want to have a right taken away for a pipe dream.

You need to look at John's record of posting UK bashing threads, he has posted crap about guns and the UK for years and will probably continue to do so for years to come.

The UK has never had a right to guns like the USA, so no right has been taken away. "pipe dream", that is bullshit, gun crime is way lower in the UK than the USA, it always has been and that is no pipe dream, and most people want to keep it that way. I lived in the UK for my first 30 years, so I know that most people don't give a shit about not being able to own guns.
It is a different culture, if you don't like it move out, I did (although not for the gun reason).

I've been around long enough to know John has nothing against the UK and simply likes to show gun bans around the world are not working. How do you brits not get that? Keep your gun ban if you like....that's fine with us but as long as you do us progunners will conitnue to use it as a good example of what we don't want and why.

Now quit taking it so damn personally. Also when referring to the 'UK gun ban' we are referring to the ban enacted in your country in 1997.

Nothing personal, I don't care about the UK gun ban, I haven't lived there for 8 years.
UK is a crap example to use against gun bans, it is a different nation, different gun mentality, the British on the whole don't care and they don't have or want a 2nd amendment, one day you might realize that.
All the BS stats people post about guns here should have told you one thing and that is that you can find stats to prove anything you want.

The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away. I had hoped that the SCOTUS ruling would have helped put that to rest but I guess not.
One of the things I like about guns in the USA is that I have had fun shooting that I could never do when I lived in the UK.

I realize you're a brit but you really need to become more informed regarding this issue. As far as the SCOTUS ruling....do you realize the same man who took this issue all the way to the Supreme Court STILL CAN'T register his firearm? Think about for a minute.

You've got to love the American legal system, it is slow. He will get his gun registered it is just a matter of time, probably years knowing the way that the system works.

Ohhh Emmm Geeee

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=heller+permit+denied

google is your friend.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

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No it's not a bash of the UK. It's a bash of the UK's gun control policies because we don't want to have a right taken away for a pipe dream.

You need to look at John's record of posting UK bashing threads, he has posted crap about guns and the UK for years and will probably continue to do so for years to come.

The UK has never had a right to guns like the USA, so no right has been taken away. "pipe dream", that is bullshit, gun crime is way lower in the UK than the USA, it always has been and that is no pipe dream, and most people want to keep it that way. I lived in the UK for my first 30 years, so I know that most people don't give a shit about not being able to own guns.
It is a different culture, if you don't like it move out, I did (although not for the gun reason).

I've been around long enough to know John has nothing against the UK and simply likes to show gun bans around the world are not working. How do you brits not get that? Keep your gun ban if you like....that's fine with us but as long as you do us progunners will conitnue to use it as a good example of what we don't want and why.

Now quit taking it so damn personally. Also when referring to the 'UK gun ban' we are referring to the ban enacted in your country in 1997.

Nothing personal, I don't care about the UK gun ban, I haven't lived there for 8 years.
UK is a crap example to use against gun bans, it is a different nation, different gun mentality, the British on the whole don't care and they don't have or want a 2nd amendment, one day you might realize that.
All the BS stats people post about guns here should have told you one thing and that is that you can find stats to prove anything you want.

The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away. I had hoped that the SCOTUS ruling would have helped put that to rest but I guess not.
One of the things I like about guns in the USA is that I have had fun shooting that I could never do when I lived in the UK.

I realize you're a brit but you really need to become more informed regarding this issue. As far as the SCOTUS ruling....do you realize the same man who took this issue all the way to the Supreme Court STILL CAN'T register his firearm? Think about for a minute.

You've got to love the American legal system, it is slow. He will get his gun registered it is just a matter of time, probably years knowing the way that the system works.

Ohhh Emmm Geeee

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=heller+permit+denied

google is your friend.

He can register a different handgun (maybe he has) which meets the registration requirements.
There will be a pissing match about what kinds of guns can be banned, and it will take years to clear up, but the basic principle has been decided don't you think?

[rushmc 18]

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do you really think that there is a chance guns will be banned in the same kind of way they are in the UK? I don't think so.

All it will take is for the Dem's to win the Senate majority, just a handful of seats, and for Obama to win the Presidency, which is about a 50-50 possibility right now. Then, with the Dems in charge of all three of those legislative and executive branches of government - yes, it's very possible. Almost certain. There would be nothing to stop them.

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If I suggest something like registration I get the pro-gun folks frothing at the mouth.

That's because registration has never proven to be effective at preventing crime. Anywhere.

And this is the kind of stuff you use to claim that pro-gun folks aren't willing to do anything to fight gun crime. That's not true. They're just not willing to do stupid stuff, like your registration suggestion, that is proven useless, and which leads to infringements of their rights.

SCOTUS has upheld the constitutional right for the individual to bear arms, I don't think the dems will ever get a majority big enough to change the constitution, that takes more than 50% of cogress and most of the state governments, you should know that what with you being an American.

So tell me what do you think should be done to cut the illegal gun trade. All I get from reading your posts is an angry man wanting to prevent any gun control legislation from being enacted regardless of its intent. You piss on every idea that anyone suggests and post BS about other countries that don't even come close to the scale of the illegal gun trade the USA has.

Another comment to the "illegal gun trade" in the US. Sourced, or just your opinion?

And the ideas "pissed" on are the same old crap that has never worked. You got anything new?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,654]

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.", majority opinion of the Supreme Court, District of Columbia v Heller, 2008

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[downwardspiral 0]

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"Like most rights, the Second Amendment is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.", majority opinion of the Supreme Court, District of Columbia v Heller, 2008

Which is fine and logical until you start twisting it to catagorize a semi-automatic handgun with machine guns simply because it loads from the bottom. Twist it far enough and the only thing legal will be flintlocks.

www.FourWheelerHB.com