birdlike 0
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nerdgirl 0
QuoteQuote
If a US citizen is visiting a foreign country, they are NOT protected by US laws, they are subject to the laws of the land they are visiting.
Does it aply to Iraq as well, or only on those ocasions when it is most convenient.
The US and Iraq are currently negotiating a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) to try to deal with that issue once the current mandate expires (soon). It's more likely to me a bilateral rather than a full SOFA. One significant point of contention is reciprocal laws for private military security and other contractors. The US has SOFA's with 90 or so countries.
VR/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteWell done Texas...well done.
Hmmm your branch of christianity sure seems to be lacking in so many of the christlike virtues.... like foregiveness...humility....etc.
Not really, Old Testament retoribution was quite prolifice and is still referenced. Christianity is not nice.
Gawain 0
QuoteQuoteIf a US citizen is visiting a foreign country, they are NOT protected by US laws, they are subject to the laws of the land they are visiting.
The Vienna convention is about granting extra rights to aliens arrested in your own country in return for those same rights being granted to your own citizens arrested abroad.
I think these two guys can be more than happy that the American consulate was called after their arrest in Tijuana.
I don't know why they'd be happy. It's not going to be a US court or process that decides their fate. I pulled up an HTML page of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties. There is no mention of the word "arrest" "detention" "counsel" "individual". The only mention of the work "legal" is in relation of termination of the treaty.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteWell done Texas...well done.
Hmmm your branch of christianity sure seems to be lacking in so many of the christlike virtues.... like foregiveness...humility....etc.
What's this got to do with Christianity? Or any religion?
It is about extermination of predatory murderous scum-of-the-Earth beings.
AT the cost of the ocassional innocent person. Civilized nations have realized the circular argument - we'll be real careful - but we can still make errors - we'll be more careful - but we can still make errors - we'll be more careful - we can still make errors - .......... This argument has led ciivilized nations to stop this practice. Retribution on the lives of innocent people is a bad deal for civilized nations. We just quite executing juveniles - horray for us (rolls eyes)
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteHmmm your branch of christianity sure seems to be lacking in so many of the christlike virtues.... like foregiveness...
Do you want all murderers to be forgiven and released from prison?
Is so, I make a motion that they be sent to YOUR home town.
Yea really............. hey, I have an idea...... let's lock him away for the rest of his life w/o parole. Does it have to be excution or freedom? That's a ridiculous argument. BTW, I voted that he did deserve what he got, as the poll was leading to that respect. How can any person who does what he did not deserve that? Am I glad we proliferate death at all costs; No.
As for American Christianty, it stinks and is fraught with killing, startvation, oppresion, etc....
Lucky... 0
QuoteI like how Ron White put it:
QuoteOther states are trying to abollish the death penalty. Mine is putting in an express lane.
SWEET... that way we can murder inncocent people at a faster rate too!!!! NICE
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteRight. A Mexican enters Texas illegally, and murders two teenage American girls. He then demands that he be treated according to Mexican law? I don't fucking think so.
He did the crimes in Texas. He can pay the Texas price for those crimes.
If he wants Mexican justice, he should have stayed in Mexico.
*sigh* If you would bother to read your own constitution (Article VI) you would know that this is about receiving due process under US law. If you don't want to dig it up just read kallend's post above. You may not like it, but the fact remains that any treaty entered into by the US becomes federal law overruling state laws and constitutions.
I personally don't think any counsel would have changed the outcome of this case one bit but that is another matter.
Ths US Const is rubber anyway. Like most laws they are selectiviely followed. Kinda the way it is and teh way it's written. That's why when I hear this flowery BS about best nation on earth, seeking truth, justice and liberty for everyone, etc I kinda puke. Not that other nations don;t do the same shit, just that we are in this denial that we do it too.
rasmack 0
QuoteI don't know why they'd be happy. It's not going to be a US court or process that decides their fate.
No, but consulary assistance might come in handy.
QuoteI pulled up an HTML page of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties. There is no mention of the word "arrest" "detention" "counsel" "individual". The only mention of the work "legal" is in relation of termination of the treaty.
There are (at least) three Vienna conventions. You want the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, Article 36, (b).
HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...
Lucky... 0
QuoteI am outraged…………………………they could have at least made sure he got raped once before he was executed.
If he admitted he raped and murdered two young girls then I am glad he was killed. We need to spend more energy worrying about that poor family then the feelings of a murderer.
Hmmmmm, write to protect your property, killing murders, and lots of beautiful land TX might be the next place I go.
But no address to the innocent people imprisoned or executed?
Lucky... 0
QuoteI fully expected a comment like yours from the warped gallery...just like others who twist Christianity to suit their needs without even acknowledging that God's WORD says "if a man kills another, his life will be taken" ( paraphrasing).
It also says " thou shalt NOT kill", and it says nothing about letting sick merderers like Medellin go home to Mexico as a reward for his efforts.
He will get his just reward when he stands before God....
THat's playing God, right? SHouldn't we let this God character do this, as it is alos a sin to play God, right? Also, isn't that Old Testament hate a retribution that you refer? Not New Testament.
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteGo take the place of those two girls then you can dole out all the forgiveness you want!
GO .. by all means and take the place of the innocent man who is convicted of murder for a crime he really did not commit.. and sit on Death Row for 20 years waiting to be executed for that crime.
On the other hand.. I do believe this guy was guilty of the crime... I would rather him spend 60 years or so contemplating his crimes in Federal Pound Him in the ASS Prison... where he gets more meaningfull punishment on a daily basis.
It's funny to watch Christians infight. SOme want to play God and decode who lives and dies, others advocate rape and sodomy in prison...... ever wonder why us secular types are turned off to Christianty?
Butters 0
QuoteI would posit that MOST of the people who go to prison... really do belong there for crimes against other people.
Ok, you believe that only a few innocent people get convicted.
QuoteGO .. by all means and take the place of the innocent man who is convicted of murder for a crime he really did not commit.. and sit on Death Row for 20 years waiting to be executed for that crime.
Ok, you don't believe in the death penalty because of the few innocent people that you believe get convicted.
QuoteOn the other hand.. I do believe this guy was guilty of the crime... I would rather him spend 60 years or so contemplating his crimes in Federal Pound Him in the ASS Prison... where he gets more meaningfull punishment on a daily basis.
Wait, you care that the few innocent people that you believe are convicted don't receive the death penalty but you don't care that they are raped on a daily basis?
PS: I also find it interesting that you condemn others for advocating (or using) torture while advocating torture (being raped on a daily basis) yourself ... way to go!
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch
THOU is anyone.
However, as it says in Ecclesiastes , there is a time to be born and a tie to die;
A time to kill and a time to heal"
During the second World War, it would have certainly been wrong to stand idly by and watch the Germans bomb civilians in England. Steps had to be taken to stop the Nazis, and if they had not been taken, you would now have a Swaztika flag on every corner of your nations streets, and a Nazi government in every country.
No one should be killed without having earned it as did Medellin, the mexican epitome of evil.
However, as it says in Ecclesiastes , there is a time to be born and a tie to die;
A time to kill and a time to heal"
During the second World War, it would have certainly been wrong to stand idly by and watch the Germans bomb civilians in England. Steps had to be taken to stop the Nazis, and if they had not been taken, you would now have a Swaztika flag on every corner of your nations streets, and a Nazi government in every country.
No one should be killed without having earned it as did Medellin, the mexican epitome of evil.
No one is " playing God" just because they excute a murderer. Are you really that uneducated?
pirana 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWell done Texas...well done.
Hmmm your branch of christianity sure seems to be lacking in so many of the christlike virtues.... like foregiveness...humility....etc.
What's this got to do with Christianity? Or any religion?
Doesn't the Bible say something about being without sin before casting stones?
Yeah, but it says a lot of wierd things. Besides, being a secular state, religious dogma is not supposed to come into play.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
QuoteMan, vent your anger. You are not born to save the world. At least, I do think so. Who called you to be saver?
If everyone would think like you, the entire world just would be a battle field. An eye for an eye ... until we're blind.
Leave that to Arnie, Rambo etc. - they look better in TV. And more entertaining.
And leave the rest for justice. It's been created for that.
Once again, you show you do not know anything about me, nor do you have any powers to read someones mind.
What anger?
QuoteWell this thread shoes why we still have the death penalty to be sure...
"the world court has no standing in Texas."
I only hope the rest of the planet gives us equal consideration
If just ONCE we could stand by the civilised agreements we make with other nations.
The death penalty is wrong - and I despise the fact that my government feels the need to bloody my hands as they see fit.
- and we still wonder why so much of the planet hates us????? I am quite surprised that you do not agree with the death penalty.
I think it is appropriate given the proper circumstances, but disapprove of how it is decided upon, or meted out.
There are far too many cases where the person was innocent, and many cases of the person being guilty, and truly deserving of death, but yet the sentence is either not given, nor carried out.
I can certainly understand your opposition to the death penalty, and have no problems with that.
I hope you can also understand my point of view.
Quote
I see nothing but a minor flaw in an otherwise proper prosecution. Add to that the fact that the piece of shit confessed, and there is no doubt that he did the crime, and I fail to see what is so worrisome.
He broke the law, and in trying to bring him to justice, so did we. The nature of the infractions were *dramatically* different, but when one is taking an action intended to reinforce the concept of "Our laws will be obeyed!", one really ought to obey those laws.
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
normiss 622
I do understand your perspective, no problems.
I used to support the death penalty until I learned more about it. I have no doubt we have murdered a number of innocents.
I'm typically very "Republican" in my thoughts if you will. I just think we have WAY too many issues and problems in our justice system. I hate to think of the possibility of ONE innocent death because we have chosen to sponsor murder in return for murder.
Death is the easy way out for them anyway...give 'em life in prison...THAT'S punishment.
It seems clear in the case we're discussing that this person IS the one that commited the crime...but I still don't understand why the rest of us should lower ourselves as a society and kill someone. To me, war and self defense are the only justifiable reasons to take a life. Life is quite simply to valuable to take away from someone. Just because someone else doesn't value it doesn't mean I shouldn't.
I used to support the death penalty until I learned more about it. I have no doubt we have murdered a number of innocents.
I'm typically very "Republican" in my thoughts if you will. I just think we have WAY too many issues and problems in our justice system. I hate to think of the possibility of ONE innocent death because we have chosen to sponsor murder in return for murder.
Death is the easy way out for them anyway...give 'em life in prison...THAT'S punishment.
It seems clear in the case we're discussing that this person IS the one that commited the crime...but I still don't understand why the rest of us should lower ourselves as a society and kill someone. To me, war and self defense are the only justifiable reasons to take a life. Life is quite simply to valuable to take away from someone. Just because someone else doesn't value it doesn't mean I shouldn't.
JohnRich 4
Quote...not a flawed justice system that sends innocent people to their deaths...
Read the story again - he confessed. Thus, there is no flaw in this case. The death penalty was fully justified.
Where is your concern for justice for the victims?
Look at those innocent faces in the attached photo. Then imagine the horror they endured being beaten, raped and strangled to death. Tell me that these two innocent little girls don't deserve this justice.
Amazon 7
QuoteNot really, Old Testament retoribution was quite prolifice and is still referenced. Christianity is not nice.
Contrary to what some believe this is not a country based on the Old Testament.
MOST of the people in this country.. profess to be christians......silly me.. thinking that christians should perhaps follow what Jesus Christ ACTUALLY taught.
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
JohnRich 4
Quote"the world court has no standing in Texas."
- and we still wonder why so much of the planet hates us?????
Do you want the U.S. to give up it's national sovereignty and turn it over to a few people in Holland to tell us how to run our country?
You seem to hate America trying to tell other nations what to do, but then you turn around and think it's okay for them to tell us what to do. That's a rather glaring contradiction, don't you think?
You need to make up your mind. Do you want one world government that rules every nation, or do you want nations to have their own independent sovereignty?
Here in Texas, USA, we can execute horrid murderers. If the little dutch boys in Holland don't like that, they can go stick their finger in a dike. Maybe we should send all of our death row prisoners to the Hague so that they can coddle them and turn them loose on their own teenage girls...
I see nothing but a minor flaw in an otherwise proper prosecution. Add to that the fact that the piece of shit confessed, and there is no doubt that he did the crime, and I fail to see what is so worrisome.
If he had been denied counsel, or had the court somehow withheld exculpatory evidence, then we'd be dealing with an injustice. This was so far from an "injustice" it's not even funny. This was the epitome of justice. The travesty is found in the fact that a shitstain rapist/murderer almost got the chance to fuck us with our own system and avoid the justice he had coming.
Imaginations on fire
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