beowulf 1 #76 April 21, 2008 God must have been testing all the other people not born in the 20th century. Hey Royd what about the babies born still? Was God testing them? Guess God can't look after everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #77 April 21, 2008 Quote Quote Fuck me, do you think you need God to hold your hand and walk you across the road, too? I'd prefer one of his smokin' hot angels. Umm, you mean like the one named,..Michael or Gabriel? I'm pretty sure the angels all have masculine names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #78 April 21, 2008 Quote Dude, you are killing me here - this is fucking comedy gold! You're saying that the only explanation for me being born in the 20th century where I can benefit from modern medicine is that God wanted me to be born in the 20th century? I have no words You, being an atheist, should consider yourself blessed. 400 years ago they'd have had your ass roasting on a stake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #79 April 21, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Fuck me, do you think you need God to hold your hand and walk you across the road, too? I'd prefer one of his smokin' hot angels. Umm, you mean like the one named,..Michael or Gabriel? I'm pretty sure the angels all have masculine names. Archangels: Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel, Sariel, Raguel, and Remiel Zadkiel, Jophiel, Haniel and Chamuel All guys. We know Gabriel was sexually active ("and the angel came in unto her", Luke 1,28), which took her by surprise ("what manner of salutation this should be?"). I'd be surprised too!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #80 April 21, 2008 Quote 400 years ago they'd have had your ass roasting on a stake. Is that part of the "love thy neighbor" creed?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #81 April 21, 2008 QuoteSome people have good fortune in their lives, others seem to have the opposite.. Why is that in any wat relevant to the debate on god? The fact that you use the term 'good fortune' alludes to the possibility that there is some force at work over which we have no control. Atheists can't legitimately use terms like good luck, the alignment of the planets, karmha, or that's just the way the chips fall. What do they do when a number of curcumstances align themselves perfectly, and they come out smelling like a rose instead of something bad happening? Of course, I believe that even the bad serves its purpose in the whole scheme of things, if for nothing more than to tell us not to go down that road again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #82 April 21, 2008 Interesting, but I don't see it the same way.... Luck or fortune stems from random actions (as the chips fall) and does not imply an external force. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #83 April 21, 2008 I'd prefer one of his smokin' hot angels. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteUmm, you mean like the one named,..Michael or Gabriel? I'm pretty sure the angels all have masculine names. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archangels: Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel, Sariel, Raguel, and Remiel Zadkiel, Jophiel, Haniel and Chamuel All guys. We know Gabriel was sexually active ("and the angel came in unto her", Luke 1,28), which took her by surprise ("what manner of salutation this should be?"). I'd be surprised too! Which just goes to prove that God preferred a Patriarchal society. The female angels didn't even get names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #84 April 21, 2008 <God the Authors of the Bible preferred a Patriarchal society.>> (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #85 April 21, 2008 QuoteAtheists can't legitimately use terms like good luck… I fail to see how luck has any religious connotations. If I improve my flush to a straight flush on the river against someone who had flopped four aces (though I thought he only had three aces with a high kicker), that's luck (assuming a fair dealer), no more, no less. The probability of losing with four aces is very low, but not zero, no divine intervention necessary.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #86 April 21, 2008 Quote Even the fact that you were born at a moment in time when medical science was able to arrest and turn around your situation cannot be claimed to be fortuitous. You are hurting your own cause here: I really do try to respect religious people, but this one is utterly ridiculous. Those that go and "construct" their own miracles are really the worst in supporting their own positions against the angry anti-religious types. How many people with his exact same symptoms died 2 years earlier, 5 years earlier? There's 5-6-7 billion people on the planet and for every one of these scenarios, there is a continuum of people in the same situation that defines those that "barely" made the cut, and those that didn't. Constructing one's own miracles is another symptom of those that doubt and think they need "proof" when faith is supposed to be independent of proof but based on personal commitment and belief. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #87 April 21, 2008 QuoteWhich just goes to prove that God preferred a Patriarchal society. The female angels didn't even get names. Perhaps you could share your definition of prove, since it is clearly different from the one commonly accepted.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #88 April 21, 2008 QuoteInteresting, but I don't see it the same way.... Luck or fortune stems from random actions (as the chips fall) and does not imply an external force. In most cases, several random actions have to intersect each other perfectly in a second,[consider how many seconds there have been] for this good fortune to happen. Basically, if you could break it down into a number of back stories, it would be amazing to see how many things happened years ago, only to culminate into one action today. Any mathematicians want to have a go at the possibility of five or six situations aligning themselves by random, through all of time and space, to come together at one point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #89 April 21, 2008 QuoteIn most cases, several random actions have to intersect each other perfectly in a second,[consider how many seconds there have been] for this good fortune to happen. Basically, if you could break it down into a number of back stories, it would be amazing to see how many things happened years ago, only to culminate into one action today. Any mathematicians want to have a go at the possibility of five or six situations aligning themselves by random, through all of time and space, to come together at one point. You're forgetting to consider all the times random actions didn't coincide perfectly in a single moment. It is probability at work.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #90 April 21, 2008 Quote Atheists can't legitimately use terms like good luck, MR SPOCK: It appears random forces have operated in our favour. DR. MCCOY: You mean we've been lucky? MR. SPOCK: I believe I just said that doctor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #91 April 21, 2008 Quote Atheists can't legitimately use terms like good luck, the alignment of the planets, karmha, or that's just the way the chips fall. You can't hire writers to think this stuff up.The worshipers of the Gods Krishna, Shiva, Kali and the like have been writing about karma longer than your friend Yahweh has had his little cult going; it is hardly an atheist concept. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #92 April 21, 2008 QuoteIn most cases, several random actions have to intersect each other perfectly in a second,[consider how many seconds there have been] for this good fortune to happen. Basically, if you could break it down into a number of back stories, it would be amazing to see how many things happened years ago, only to culminate into one action today. Any mathematicians want to have a go at the possibility of five or six situations aligning themselves by random, through all of time and space, to come together at one point. Royd, you seriously, seriously have to drop this line of thinking. It's so stupid it's actually painful to look directly at it. The universe exists, right? Given that the universe exists, stuff has to happen in it. It's that simple. When you look at an event and say "Wow, how unlikely was that given the age and size of the universe!" you completely miss the point that all you ever see are the events that happened, and what you never see are the events that didn't. Something had to happen, and you see what did.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #93 April 22, 2008 When you look at an event and say "Wow, how unlikely was that given the age and size of the universe!" you completely miss the point that all you ever see are the events that happened, and what you never see are the events that didn't. Something had to happen, and you see what did.*** Or, you could be looking at the conclusions of someone who already has an agenda. And either doesn't know or is ignoring the probability of a monumentally complex and perfectly executed cosmos forming instead of universal conflagration . __________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #94 April 22, 2008 Quote When you look at an event and say "Wow, how unlikely was that given the age and size of the universe!" you completely miss the point that all you ever see are the events that happened, and what you never see are the events that didn't. Something had to happen, and you see what did.*** Or, you could be looking at the conclusions of someone who already has an agenda. And either doesn't know or is ignoring the probability of a monumentally complex and perfectly executed cosmos forming instead of universal conflagration . __________________________________ What?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #95 April 22, 2008 QuoteQuote Or, you could be looking at the conclusions of someone who already has an agenda. And either doesn't know or is ignoring the probability of a monumentally complex and perfectly executed cosmos forming instead of universal conflagration . __________________________________ What? He's basically saying that if things were different, then things would be different and that would be bad. But they're not so god must exist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #96 April 22, 2008 "The fact that you use the term 'good fortune' alludes to the possibility that there is some force at work over which we have no control. " It certainly doesnt imply any consciouss force.If we bet on a random outcome , say a coin toss. One of us will win and one of us will lose. We do not need to assume any angels, demons gods or god to expain why one of us was "lucky" and the other wasn't. In a purely chance game there will be winners and losers, thats just statistics, its not any kind of spirit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base_nz 0 #97 April 22, 2008 If i was hit by some thing thrown out of a plane at 10000 feet would this be a miracle?.....And you thought Kiwis couldn't fly!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #98 April 22, 2008 "The fact that you use the term 'good fortune' alludes to the possibility that there is some force at work over which we have no control. " QuoteIt certainly doesnt imply any consciouss force.If we bet on a random outcome , say a coin toss. One of us will win and one of us will lose. We do not need to assume any angels, demons gods or god to expain why one of us was "lucky" and the other wasn't. In a purely chance game there will be winners and losers, thats just statistics, its not any kind of spirit.Maybe not if you're talking about a crap game, but the way politicians use the term, 'the less fortunate, winners in life's lottery, etc' insinuates that someone has been smiled on from above. BTW, I just heard a story on the news this morning about a mail lady who was on her route when she looked and sees a 1 yr. old baby leaning out of a second story window. It fell and she caught it, unharmed. I will always call something like that a miracle, but never happenchance. Science can never explain something like this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #99 April 22, 2008 QuoteScience can never explain something like this. What part can't science explain? Her ability to see? Her ability to catch? I'm not seeing anything not explainable by science.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #100 April 22, 2008 Quote I have a quick questions for you. As an atheist you don’t believe in god or any god. I am assuming that you believe in the big bang theory or something like it. Here is what I always have difficulty with. Lets say that the universe was created by to huge pieces that collided and formed the universe. Who or what made those objects? And if we know the answer who made the other objects and who or what after that ect. You get the point. That’s the one thing that is always very confusing for me. When you keep on going backwards what created that first thing, and what created that. WOW I have a headache now. I can see how you are confused.... So who created the creator??? maybe the creator was always there?? if that can be said then maybe the universe has always been there----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
