In Depth Analysis of the Democratice Race

[lawrocket 3]

Hillary Clinton has offered hers.

1) Southern States, with a "strong and very proud African-American electorate" will vote for Obama. So, these states don't matter much.

2) Caucus states cater to party activists and are undemocratic. So they don't count.

3) Obama wins "red states." So, let's not focus on those (except Texas - which she is REALLY hustling for)

4) Obama's campaign is getting $1 million a day. Hillary just loaned $5 million to her campaign because she won't get the special interest money from those, oh, half-million people.

Now, I counted Hillary out once a few weeks ago. Boy, was I wrong.

Hillary can take Texas. A "red state." A southern state.

But Hillary - QUIT SPINNING!!!

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Gawain 0]

That loan she did for her campaign was nothing more than a ploy to get an infusion of donations, she's no where near out of money. Word has it that she scored a quick $4M after her "loan".

She'll never quit spinning. She's been asked questions about the pay and/or her campaign staff receives to continued "scandals" of her husband if she were in the White House again...I don't understand how she's not dizzy...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[DSE 3]

Interesting that she still won't give up her tax returns and then calls Obama on the carpet for his nuclear legislation (that she also sponsored).

[kelpdiver 2]

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Interesting that she still won't give up her tax returns and then calls Obama on the carpet for his nuclear legislation (that she also sponsored).

It's obvious that his tax return gambit is intended to point out the money Bill is collecting on the talk circuit. Hardly shocking that she declines to play.

As it clearly states, Senate requirements already clear up the income picture.

[DSE 3]

I don't disagree, the bigger point (badly made) was that she's claiming he was influenced by a corporation who benefitted from her co-sponsorship of the legislation.

Incidentally, check out this picture. Notice the guy on the far right. Either Hillary just broke wind, or he's not buying what she's saying.

[SkydiveJack 1]

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That loan she did for her campaign was nothing more than a ploy to get an infusion of donations, she's no where near out of money. Word has it that she scored a quick $4M after her "loan".

Loaning herself money was like crying for votes a few weeks ago. That b**ch will do anything to get herself in power.

[mnealtx 0]

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[idrankwhat 0]

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Loaning herself money was like crying for votes a few weeks ago. That b**ch will do anything to get herself in power.

I have my reasons for not wanting to vote for her but I have to ask her detractors, what IS the biggest beef with Hillary? She's a cold hearted bitch? She's weak because she showed emotion? Her cleavage? Her laugh? The way she dresses? Her smile? It's just fun to hate her because it's become a habit?
Or maybe it's her proposed policies? Nah, I rarely hear any bitching about that last one. Too issue oriented I guess.

[rushmc 18]

She wants the US to becomes a socialist state.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

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She wants the US to becomes a socialist state.

Can you be any more specific than a sound bite?
Thanks by the way, for the answer though.

[warpedskydiver 0]

The biggest reason of all:

Because she is Hillary Clinton, and everything she stands for.

I oppose anything she is in favor of.

I am still awaiting the release of her tax returns.

She has shown over and over that she is willing to obstruct justice, and commit crimes.

[SimonBones 1]

I'll attempt to make an oversimplified quick stab at this one. A full discussion of every little thing people may dislike Hillary for couldn't fit in an encyclopedia and would range from intelligent answers debating her political beliefs to superficially judgemental answers like "She's blond". But here goes...

All of the current major candidates ARE politicians and with that said, are not innocent from acting like one by doing things like flip flopping on your political stances and doing positional favors to gather votes and support. It's a profession that requires a mastery of deceit and forked tongues. But there is a spectrum of how much of a "politician" (with the connotation hinted above) a candidate is.

Hillary has a long list of dirty history between scandals, allegations, subpeonas, etc. Just read the wikipedia articles on each candidate, who's got the longest dirty laundry section? McCain has a very small basic one which almost looks pretty understandable (since all media and opponents try to "expose" politicians) and Obama has a surprisingly clean background.

The old proverb of sleeping with dogs gets you fleas seems to fit pretty well with her as far as playing the "politician" part goes. She became a senator in a state she had little involvement in. She's constantly trying to alter her conceived image to mine for more votes (like powerful and ballsy one weekand crying the next week). She seems to be the worst at avoiding solid answers to plans and policies by throwing those BS statements out there like "what matters more are the people, and i believe in change for a better America" (doesn't really answer a thing). McCain and Obama seem much able to answer a question with honesty, staightforwardness, and thought. It seems like she's more after the presidancy because it's the next step up a political power ladder and less because she really wants to make something happen (even though she cried about it to a group of women at a coffee shop ). Let's not forget that she's sad nasty things about the military and it's service members.

The list and debate can go on and on but that's just a brief oversimplified stab at at a view for you

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[kallend 1,661]

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She wants the US to becomes a socialist state.

Can you be any more specific than a sound bite?
.

Rushmc just hates those public roads, police departments, fire departments, airports, national parks, public health..., and he certainly doesn't want anyone from the EPA to notice the 32 million tons of pollution his company puts out every year.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Unstable 8]

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The old proverb of sleeping with dogs gets you fleas seems to fit pretty well with her as far as playing the "politician" part goes. She became a senator in a state she had little involvement in. She's constantly trying to alter her conceived image to mine for more votes (like powerful and ballsy one weekand crying the next week).

You have a lot of good points. Simple reasoning, but I think your post sums up the feeling of a lot of Americans. There seems to be an inherent distrust of her, and your points hit it on the head.


What I've never been able to figure out is how she made the transition so fast from First Lady to NY Senator. Not representative, but she was able to go straight to a Senatorial seat. Now, like you pointed out, she had very little to do with New York, it's constituents, or it's politics before... I've researched this and researched this, and the only real information I can find was on Wikipedia.....

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The long-serving United States Senator from New York, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, announced his retirement in November 1998. Several prominent Democratic figures, including Representative Charles Rangel of New York, urged Clinton to run for Moynihan's open seat in the United States Senate election of 2000.[188][189] When she decided to run, Clinton and her husband purchased a home in Chappaqua, New York, north of New York City in September 1999.

I guess this Bothers me, even though I myself have little to do with NY. I expect Sam Brownback, our Senior Senator for Kansas, to go up to Capital hill and with his best judgement, represent the people and the interests of Kansas while trying to see the "big picture." I didn't vote for him to go and just do pork-barrel projects for Kansas or just try to get himself reelected, but I expect him to keep his constituents in mind, and then see the bigger picture. This is what I expect of my Senator.

With Hilary, I can't see her connection to NY, so how she went within a 2-year period, moved into a state, then almost instantly started representing it, well, this just bothers me. The whole thing just seems like a big grasp for power. Hell, if the Kansas Democrats loved her and we had an open seat, would she have bought a Mansion in Topeka?

=========Shaun ==========

[livendive 8]

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I have my reasons for not wanting to vote for her but I have to ask her detractors, what IS the biggest beef with Hillary? She's a cold hearted bitch? She's weak because she showed emotion? Her cleavage? Her laugh? The way she dresses? Her smile? It's just fun to hate her because it's become a habit?
Or maybe it's her proposed policies? Nah, I rarely hear any bitching about that last one. Too issue oriented I guess.

She strikes me as completely phony and only interested in power for power's sake. She's perhaps even more divisive than our current fucktard in chief, and her proposal for mandatory state-run healthcare is bullshit. Oh, and the way she points, smiles, & nods her head to acknowledge supporters gives me the heeby-jeebies.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Amazon 7]

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have my reasons for not wanting to vote for her but I have to ask her detractors, what IS the biggest beef with Hillary? She's a cold hearted bitch? She's weak because she showed emotion? Her cleavage? Her laugh? The way she dresses? Her smile? It's just fun to hate her because it's become a habit?
Or maybe it's her proposed policies? Nah, I rarely hear any bitching about that last one. Too issue oriented I guess.

I just write it off to plain old mysogeny....which truely is alive and well in this country.

[SimonBones 1]

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The long-serving United States Senator from New York, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, announced his retirement in November 1998. Several prominent Democratic figures, including Representative Charles Rangel of New York, urged Clinton to run for Moynihan's open seat in the United States Senate election of 2000.[188][189] When she decided to run, Clinton and her husband purchased a home in Chappaqua, New York, north of New York City in September 1999.

This is a perfect example. Instead of somebody who decides to get into politics by:
Having strong feelings about an important issue and campaigning, finds a talent in it and some support, runs for a local office, becomes a mayor, governor, head of X local, state, or federal department, or state representative, or however many other ways of getting into politics genuinely.

Hillary sees an open seat in a state she's never lived in before and says, "Oooh! An opportunity to GET IN to the senate!" Some states require you be a resident of that state for 3 years, I guess Hillary found herself a little loophole for a power express lane.

This, to me, represents an honest, moral, hard working and self-made character who I'd be proud to trust the fate of my country to I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her. Every one of her carefully strategized attempts to appeal to every voter she can makes me more and more against her.

Why does it seem that Obama and McCain just go out there and be themselves whether you agree with them or not? They seem to be hiding a lot less.

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[mnealtx 0]

Agreed - add to that the fact that the Democratic party platform is a VERY poor match for the issues that I believe are important, and Satan will piss icesicles before I vote for a party-line Dem.

With that said, some of the new crop are a bit more moderate, so I would look at them more closely than the majority to see how well their stated views and voting record matches up.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[idrankwhat 0]

Thanks for a decent response. I typically get responses like warpedskydiver's. With a couple of exceptions it appears that you think she manifests the sleazier side of politics more than some of the other options. I can certainly accept that. I equate her "experience" to mean "experiences with lobbyists" which is a big negative in my book. I can't put much weight on her Wiki score due to the fact that she was a recipient of the Clinton witch hunt that was the 90's. That White House responded to 1089 subpoenas and unlike the current WH, they didn't misuse executive privilege. A lot was thrown at them trying to get something to stick.
Personally I think that she's better qualified for the job than some candidates but I don't like her links to special interests, the fact that she'd be only marginally slower to go to war than McCain, the way she gave Obama shit for saying he'd pursue the terrorists where they actually are, and I thought her husband's middle east peace plan was crap. And I have a few other reasons but they're petty. The reason I'm most embarrassed to admit is that I don't want her as president because I don't want to have to deal with the constant din of the noise machine again, the one that drives the media to talking about her hair/clothes/laugh etc. They won in that regard I guess.
And yea, we could go on. I just wanted to say thanks for being one of the few who seems to have actually thought about why they dislike the candidate.

[tbrown 26]

Hillary sees an open seat in a state she's never lived in before and says, "Oooh! An opportunity to GET IN to the senate!" Some states require you be a resident of that state for 3 years, I guess Hillary found herself a little loophole for a power express lane.

Why does it seem that Obama and McCain just go out there and be themselves whether you agree with them or not? They seem to be hiding a lot less.

[Unstable 8]

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McCain desperately wants to run against Hillary.

I agree. I've heard this sentiment several times. I think McCain would tear Hilary to itty bitty pieces, and I hope he does.

=========Shaun ==========

[idrankwhat 0]

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In November, McCain would make mincemeat of Hillary. But Obama can actually win this thing - and McCain knows it. McCain desperately wants to run against Hillary.

Hillary as a galvanizing force would be a great asset to the Republican nominee. Obama can get more first time voters, independents and cross over votes and I see that as the GOP's biggest threat.

[lawrocket 3]

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Or maybe it's her proposed policies?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2976885#2976885

I have BIG problems with her health care policies.

I also have problems with other things:
From her website:

"Lower taxes for middle class families" - okay, I like this.

"Harness the power of innovation to create high wage jobs of the 21st Century" - but she wants to do this by partnering up because th elast six years have been "holding our nation back."

"Empower our workers and ensure that all Americans contribute their fair share." - ah! Then she describes protecting unions and "average americans." - no. Nothing about "fair share" for the poor or the affluent.

"Restore the basic bargain. Hillary will restore the basic bargain that if Americans work hard and take responsibility, government will do its part to make sure they have the tools to get ahead." - oh, really? I didn't bargain with the government! Leave me alone.

"Return to fiscal responsibility" - okay. I like this. But, "She will move back toward a balanced budget and surpluses." - she's not saying a balanced budget. She's saying, "toward" a balanced budget. (spin.) "Hillary believes that we should develop a set of budget rules similar to those we had in the 90s which required us to fund new expenditures with new revenues or cuts in other areas." - yes. Those rules in the 90's that raided Social Security ("off budget") to balance it.


Okay. Ending Iraq -

"Starting Phased Redeployment within Hillary's First Days in Office" - good! I like that.

"Securing Stability in Iraq as we Bring our Troops Home." - Oops! Wiggle room there.

"A New Intensive Diplomatic Initiative in the Region." - uh oh. Make them get along with each other. That's one of the things that kept us there - they haven't.

Okay. Energy and environment
"Centered on a cap and trade system for carbon emissions, stronger energy and auto efficiency standards and a significant increase in green research funding, Hillary's plan will reduce America's reliance on foreign oil and address the looming climate crisis." - more credits, etc.

"jumpstarting research and development through a $50 billion Strategic Energy Fund and doubling investment in basic energy research." - that's cool. Back to the budget, will this be paid for via tax or slash?

Doubling research - mainly through DARPA - warmonging.


On "supporting parents and caring for children"
"Attracting and supporting more outstanding teachers and principals, and paying them like the professionals they are." - good. Are teacher salaries gonna be federal pay scaled?

"Giving new parents support and training to promote healthy development for their children" - What the???

"Reforming the No Child Left Behind Act. This law represented a promise -- more resources for schools in exchange for more accountability -- and that promise has not been kept." - cool. Whatcha gonna slash in the budget? Or will you raise taxes?

"Protecting children against violence and sexual content in the media and studying the impact of electronic media on children's cognitive, social, and physical development." - who is this? Jerry Falwell?


On Restoring America's standing:

"As president, Hillary will lead by the words of the Declaration of Independence, which pledged "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind." - I'd prefer you lead by the words of the Constitution...

"Hillary has put forth an aggressive plan to support public schools in developing countries in an effort to achieve universal primary education for the 77 million children around the world who aren't in school because they are too poor" - not satisfied with socializing America, let's socialize the world!
How you gonna pay for it?


On Championing women - you know, not a whole lot to argue with there, except she's not trying to empower them. Instead, she's "ready to lead."


On Comprehensive Government Reform
"Americans are ready for a government that puts competence ahead of cronyism" - I'm actually ready for one that disavows cronyism.

"It's a government of the few, by the few, and for the few -- and good luck to everyone else." - Um, yeah, your husband was president previously. Good luck to Obama, right?

"No more cronyism, no more corruption, and no more deception." - please, Hillary. You carpetbagged New York.

"Government certainly isn't the answer to all our problems" - SWEET! I'll agree with that wholeheartedly!

"Banning Cabinet officials from lobbying a Hillary Clinton administration" - Okay. Cool.

"Strengthening whistleblower protections" - yeah. No more Linda Tripp firings or Bimbo Eruption control.

"Creating a public service academy" - another public school?

"Ending abuse of no-bid government contracts and posting all contracts online" - AHHH!!! "ABUSE" if no-bid contracts. That means your lackeys get them.

"Cutting 500,000 government contractors" - so much for strengthening the middle class. Are these union contractors, by the way?

"Tracking and eliminating corporate welfare" - cool. What is "corporate welfare" as you define it?

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Strengthen our voting laws so that every citizen can fully exercise his or her constitutional right to vote.

Even felons?



These are but a few....

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 18]

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She wants the US to becomes a socialist state.

Can you be any more specific than a sound bite?
Thanks by the way, for the answer though.

The health care plan comes to mind first. More taxes, to give to others using welfare type plans to move the money.

Also, I think that her and her husband have used the gov in more ways to silence detractors than any other pres in recent history. (including Bush)

Quick sound bites I know.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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She wants the US to becomes a socialist state.

Can you be any more specific than a sound bite?
.

Rushmc just hates those public roads, police departments, fire departments, airports, national parks, public health..., and he certainly doesn't want anyone from the EPA to notice the 32 million tons of pollution his company puts out every year.

Dam, stinky fish again

You my friend have taken my positions and twisted them into some kind of crazy wet dream

Sleep well sir. REM brings out the best in you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln