jakee 1,259 #301 January 21, 2008 QuoteThank you for making my point. What point? You tried to pick me up on an error in my writing that didn't exist. Although on the plus side you found a rogue 'a'. Have a golfclap.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #302 January 21, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Didnt say that you did but, In todays world our morality is defined by religion. That is where those rules come from and are defined, whether you like it our not. Again, I am not saying religion is the owner of morality, but it is defined by it. So where do animals get there morality from, last time I was at the zoo I didnt notice any of the tigers reading the bible!! Now animals have morals????? It over now We have seen animals defend each other from a common enemy and join together in running down prey for a common meal. There is a courting time for animals, there is a mating time, and there is a time however brief when the animal family of male, female and young exist. All this happened to the animals without God. Why should man have to receive a revelation before he could reach the moral stage of the higher animal life----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #303 January 21, 2008 With all due respect, you can bebate yourself on this one."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #304 January 21, 2008 QuoteSo you do not deny that faith exists within the human phsyche? You just have a probem with the object of this faith? My understanding is that science pooh-poohs the idea of faith, as if it's some kind of evolutionary dross. There are theories that place faith as a kind of evolutionary baggage, yes. Doesn't mean anyone is saying that faith itself doesn't exist. Look, you tell me that you're happy - I'll believe that you're happy. Tell me you feel guilty, I'll believe that too. Tell me you have faith in God, I'll believe that you have faith in God. However, that doesn't oblige me to give any credence at all to God.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #305 January 21, 2008 I would say that morality is not owned by religion but, it IS defined by it........for the most part. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteI disagree completely, but no surprise there. Morality is defined by how our actions affect other people. Don't need the guy in the sky to figure out if you're helping or hurting someone. The problem here is that in today's secular society, if something that you know is wrong, but you really want to do it without guilt, you[speaking of secular society] will try to change the rules to fit the behavior. Thus, what has been wrong from the beginning of civilization, suddenly becomes acceptable, or at least, winked at. Not to say that all ideas should remain the same forever. If they are truly wrong, they will eventually reveal themselves, without doubt. Thus, the eternal thread of righteousness reveals itself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #306 January 21, 2008 QuoteThe problem here is that in today's secular society, if something that you know is wrong, but you really want to do it without guilt, you[speaking of secular society] will try to change the rules to fit the behavior. Thus, what has been wrong from the beginning of civilization, suddenly becomes acceptable, or at least, winked at. Not if it involves something that overly hurts another person. Take affairs - I think that cheating is wrong, because it will hurt the person you're supposed to be with. However, I think that if two people mutually decide to have an open relationship then that's fine, no-one's getting hurt. Similarly, homosexuality. No-one's getting hurt, no problem. But no-one (or no-one credible) in secular society is going to OK robbery or assault, because these things obviously hurt another person. Also, I disagree with the fundamental concept that 'changing the rules' changes something from wrong to right. The overwhelming majority of the time people change rules not because they think that what they are doing is wrong, but because they think what they are doing is right (or acceptable) and that it is the current rule which is wrong.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #307 January 21, 2008 Quote So where do animals get there morality from, last time I was at the zoo I didnt notice any of the tigers reading the bible!! It seems that it's only the tigers in the liberal zoos i.e. San Fransisco, who don't think that they have to obey the rules. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #308 January 21, 2008 Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By your hypothesis, through the thousands or hundreds of thousands of years that humans have existed, by the law of evolution, we should all be living in a virtual paradise by now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteNot at all. Just because we have developed great theories of morality doesn't mean we've figured out how to get everyone to live by them. Similarly, although we've developed incredibly complex mathematics, some people still have to stop when they run out of fingers. Did we develop them, or are they the result of evolution? How is it that we have to be retaught with each generation? Sort of like basic math. The only time I have to teach my dog something is if I want to change his behavior. Otherwise, he does what dogs do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #309 January 21, 2008 Quote There is a courting time for animals, there is a mating time, and there is a time however brief when the animal family of male, female and young exist. Don't go all Eccllesiastes on us here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #310 January 21, 2008 The problem here is that in today's secular society, if something that you know is wrong, but you really want to do it without guilt, you[speaking of secular society] will try to change the rules to fit the behavior. Thus, what has been wrong from the beginning of civilization, suddenly becomes acceptable, or at least, winked at. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not if it involves something that overly hurts another person. QuoteTake affairs - I think that cheating is wrong, because it will hurt the person you're supposed to be with. However, I think that if two people mutually decide to have an open relationship then that's fine, no-one's getting hurt.So, if a father and daughter, or a brother and sister are the only remaining people in a family, and no one is around to object, then it's OK? Quote Similarly, homosexuality. No-one's getting hurt, no problem.That's one of those things that will sort itself after time. Homosexuality cannot be propagated. Quote The overwhelming majority of the time people change rules not because they think that what they are doing is wrong, but because they think what they are doing is right (or acceptable) and that it is the current rule which is wrong. We see that everyday in society. One generation of parents hated school and learning, and they end up projecting that attitude onto their children in order to validate their own attitude, even though it's wrong. If you ask them, they are being free thinkers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #311 January 21, 2008 QuoteUnlike religous charities, they do not do the work to garner points from a "God" to someday trade in for admission to some kind of invisible kingdom in the sky IF you think that's why Christian charities do that stuff, then you do NOT understand Christianity. No act of charity will "buy" your way into heaven. Any Christian would know that. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #312 January 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteUnlike religous charities, they do not do the work to garner points from a "God" to someday trade in for admission to some kind of invisible kingdom in the sky IF you think that's why Christian charities do that stuff, then you do NOT understand Christianity. No act of charity will "buy" your way into heaven. Any Christian would know that. Huh? I didn't say that. I was quoting someone who was quoting someone. Honest injun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #313 January 21, 2008 I said "Rabbits", Dammit!Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #314 January 21, 2008 Quote Homosexuality cannot be propagated. You don't know that. One of the definitions of "propagate" is "to transmit (characteristics) from one generation to another." Physical characteristics of every part of the body, including not just the shapes of our faces, but also the configurations of our brains, our biochemistry, etc. are in major part genetic sequelae. Thus, those personality characteristics that stem from brain configuration and biochemistry can, and often are, propagated. And thus, to the extent that sexual orientation is influenced, in whole or even in part, by personal brain configuration and biochemistry, homosexuality is capable of being propagated. If you're implying that, homosexuals will eventually become extinct because gay sex does not result in procreation, and thus homosexuals tend to procreate less frequently than heterosexuals, that discounts the rate of population expansion, resulting in a greater raw number of homosexuals being born in each generation than died in the previous generation. Thus, your argument is fallacious. No pun intended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #315 January 21, 2008 Quote Quilt is not something that you can measure in a lab. I think it'd be plenty easy to measure a quilt in a lab. All ya' need is a basic tape measure. this 'wins' the thread.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #316 January 21, 2008 RABBITS!Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #317 January 21, 2008 Quote By your hypothesis, through the thousands or hundreds of thousands of years that humans have existed, by the law of evolution, we should all be living in a virtual paradise by now.. this statement is often repeated, and only illustrates a complete lack of understanding about how Evolution (and its not a Law btw) works.. lets borrow the "Father/Daughter" referenced from earlier in relation to 'learned morality' why are there ancient laws against such relationships? (try to leave the cultural disgust at the door and postulate the 'lesson learned' behind the law against) Why have there been historical restrictions on what should and should not be eaten? (portrayed as a moral issue at the time, but progress and history shows it is not) Are those restrictions valid in the face of progress? or are there means to remove the 'dangers' they once presented. for the obtuse these are discussion points not advocacy____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #318 January 21, 2008 QuoteRABBITS! Let them wear glasses!!____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #319 January 21, 2008 What if they're just ill-tempered?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #320 January 21, 2008 QuoteRABBITS! what about marmosets?? especially those tiny pygmy marmosets that like to hump peoples fingers. STOP SHOVING MARMOSETS DOWN MY THROAT!! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #321 January 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteRABBITS! what about marmosets?? especially those tiny pygmy marmosets that like to hump peoples fingers. STOP SHOVING MARMOSETS DOWN MY THROAT!! visuals I didnt need for 1000 alex.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #322 January 21, 2008 QuoteDid we develop them, or are they the result of evolution? A mixture of the two. QuoteThe only time I have to teach my dog something is if I want to change his behavior. Otherwise, he does what dogs do. Just like us.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #323 January 21, 2008 QuoteSo, if a father and daughter, or a brother and sister are the only remaining people in a family, and no one is around to object, then it's OK? I don't know what this means. QuoteThat's one of those things that will sort itself after time. Homosexuality cannot be propagated. So? What imact does that have on its rightness?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #324 January 21, 2008 So, if a father and daughter, or a brother and sister are the only remaining people in a family, and no one is around to object, then it's OK? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteI don't know what this means. I'm talking about incest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #325 January 21, 2008 QuoteThat's one of those things that will sort itself after time. Homosexuality cannot be propagated. That's not true at all. It can be and it is.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
