AdamLanes 1 #1 January 8, 2008 I just finished reading the book "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal" by Ayn Rand. It is one of the most insightful books I have ever read. I highly recommend it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #2 January 8, 2008 QuoteI just finished reading the book "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal" by Ayn Rand. It is one of the most insightful books I have ever read. I highly recommend it! Thanks. Always enjoy recommendations for good and thoughtfully provocative books! Why was it insightful? VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdamLanes 1 #3 January 8, 2008 The book is far to in-depth to give an adequate summary here. I was one of the majority of the people in the world that did not understand the true meaning of capitalism and its history until reading this book. The majority of the problems that people associate with capitalism are actually the results of government interventions in the free market and have nothing to do with true free-market capitalism. Individuals can be free only in a capitalist economy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #4 January 8, 2008 "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand is also an excellent read. It really makes you think as a good book should.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #5 January 8, 2008 QuoteThe majority of the problems that people associate with capitalism are actually the results of government interventions in the free market and have nothing to do with true free-market capitalism. We have some very learned people on this board who don't seem to realize this.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #6 January 8, 2008 QuoteQuoteThe majority of the problems that people associate with capitalism are actually the results of government interventions in the free market and have nothing to do with true free-market capitalism. We have some very learned people on this board who don't seem to realize this. Because there are differing ideas and opinions on it. My best friend is an economist, a post-keynesian Ph.D. from Canada - the stereotypical Canadian socialist. He's always wrong, but never with faulty logic. They just start from different points, that's all. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #7 January 8, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe majority of the problems that people associate with capitalism are actually the results of government interventions in the free market and have nothing to do with true free-market capitalism. We have some very learned people on this board who don't seem to realize this. Because there are differing ideas and opinions on it. My best friend is an economist, a post-keynesian Ph.D. from Canada - the stereotypical Canadian socialist. He's always wrong, but never with faulty logic. They just start from different points, that's all. Fair enough. I suppose it's obvious which point I start from, then.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para_Frog 1 #8 January 8, 2008 Ayn Rand is a douchebag. WTF Lanes.- Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #9 January 8, 2008 Quote The majority of the problems that people associate with capitalism are actually the results of government interventions in the free market and have nothing to do with true free-market capitalism. Individuals can be free only in a capitalist economy. I'd like to buy you a beer. here you go ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdamLanes 1 #10 January 8, 2008 What do you have against Ayn Rand? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para_Frog 1 #11 January 8, 2008 Just fucking with you Lanes. But I'd rather have my balls smashed flat with a rubber mallet than wade through Atlas Shrugged again. That was brutal.- Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #12 January 8, 2008 I've read all of novels and some of her non-fiction works. She was an amazing woman. She can be just a little bit wordy at times. Shorter novels to try are "Anthem" and "We the Living". A film was made based on "The Fountainhead" in 1949 starring Gary Cooper and Patricia Neal. Ayn Rand and BASE: When Ayn Rand first moved to the US, she wrote a few screenplays while developing her English language skills. One of the screenplays, "The Skyscraper", was a fanciful story of a "noble thief" who, while committing crimes in NYC moved about from one skyscraper to another by jumping with a parachute. This was in ~1930. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #13 January 8, 2008 Quote She can be just a little bit wordy at times. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Nothing at all. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #14 January 8, 2008 Quote Quote She can be just a little bit wordy at times. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Nothing at all. Word. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asmund 0 #15 January 9, 2008 Ayn Rand manages to put it into a manageable number of words compared to Ludvig Von Mises... Good choice of reading material! Ron Paul said he thought Ayn Rand was somehow violent in her views... Food for thought.I like subway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #16 January 9, 2008 Check out who might get the leading roles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged_%28film%29 "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joedirt 0 #17 January 9, 2008 Quote He's always wrong, but never with faulty logic. Priceless... that sounds like a large part of academia to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #18 January 11, 2008 QuoteThe majority of the problems that people associate with capitalism are actually the results of government interventions in the free market and have nothing to do with true free-market capitalism. Individuals can be free only in a capitalist economy. Does she explain how we achieve true free-market capitalism, without government intervention, or does her theory only hold true in an ideal world? Because the capitalist economy we live in today seems to be the root of many of the world's problems. Not that I have a better suggestion myself... I think that I lean more toward socialism, but I don't see any way to make that work except in an ideal world either. I like the books I've read of hers. She's a very good writer, but I don't necessarily agree with everything she says. Which is ok, because at least she makes me think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #19 January 11, 2008 QuoteBecause the capitalist economy we live in today seems to be blamed as the root of many of the world's problems. Fixed that for ya.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #20 January 11, 2008 Quote Quote Because the capitalist economy we live in today seems to be blamed as the root of many of the world's problems. Fixed that for ya. Hmm, maybe "root" was the wrong word for me to use. "Contributing factor" might be more appropriate. Greed is probably the root of many of the problems, but that's probably going to be the thing that keeps any economic system from working in an ideal way. Not sure how to get rid of greed though, and we're all guilty of it to some degree. Anyhow, I was just curious what Rand's suggestions were. But I'm guessing that they are idealistic, as is usually the case in philosophy. Oh well, let's just keep "progressing" until we eradicate ourselves. It's not like anyone will miss us. Crap, now I'm depressing myself. I think I'll go for a walk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdamLanes 1 #21 January 11, 2008 There is no easy answer to your question. First it is important to understand the definition of capitalism. What is capitalism? What is socialism? What is fascism, communism, totalitarianism? What is a democracy? Does the majority have the right to determine the fate of the minority? There must be protections in place to protect the individual's right to life and property. Your life includes your time, mind, labor, and what you produce. What you produce becomes your property. Does the majority have the right to arbitrarily enslave you and do as they wish with your life and property? Capitalism is the only economic system where the individual can be free. Greed is the desire to have something that is not deserved. How can anything be more greedy than to demand the individuals life or property? I think you will understand if you take the time to read this book! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #22 January 11, 2008 Well, you're certainly describing a social/economic system that is not what we have right now. And "free" is a sort of subjective word, so I'm not sure that we will all agree on which system allows all individuals to be free. And actually I can't imagine any system where all individuals will feel that they are free. QuoteI think you will understand if you take the time to read this book! Ok, I'll add it to my list, though I'll admit I already have a biased opinion from reading some of her other books and essays. So I'm expecting it to be some idealistic vision that is not attainable in the real world. (Sheesh, I went for a walk and I'm still being negative!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #23 January 12, 2008 Quote Not sure how to get rid of greed though, and we're all guilty of it to some degree. I went to college with two girls who were avowed Marxists. One had a b/f of doubtful character. When one went to her parents home for the weekend, the guy sold her guitar for a bag of pot and then smoked it. She was enraged. "It's not a big thing. It's just a guitar. I needed the bag. What is the big deal? I thought you would be cool with sharing." "I'm cool on sharing, but that was my guitar." I think that "rich" is a relative term. If someone makes 50% than you do, that makes them rich. So, the poor wish to share the wealth of the rich. No one thinks that they are rich. But, to someone, they are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #24 January 12, 2008 QuoteSo I'm expecting it to be some idealistic vision that is not attainable in the real world. I'm pretty sure its an unattainable idealism. I'm interested in reading it though. I've always liked her works. Kind of a type of escapism for me. I believe the real reason a lot of these good idealistic philosophies can never work in real life, is not a negative attribute as it is a lack of understanding other variables. Ayn Rand has blinders on when she's philosophical. It's as if she believes in "free Lunches". Any philosophy in its purity will never work cleanly. That's, as you have alluded to earlier, human condition in action. In the end, it's all about compromise of different philosophies._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdamLanes 1 #25 January 15, 2008 QuoteIt's as if she believes in "free Lunches". Ayn Rand definitely did not believe in "free lunches." QuoteIn the end, it's all about compromise of different philosophies. Freedom must not be compromised! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
