pop 0 #226 January 4, 2008 You know I've been very lucky in that I have had a chance to live in more countries then 95% of the people on here will get to visit in their life time, and in that I had a chance to learn other cultures and their political views. I am also lucky in that I get to travel yearly around the world and speak with people outside our borders. The general peception the world has of Americans is that they are gun loving, uneducated, fat, and ignorant. I cant really argue with gun loving. We have the highest gun related murder rate in the world. I cant ague with uneducated. In 12th grade I was doing the same math I was doing in 5th grade in the USSR. I cant argue with fat....just look around. But I have always backed up Americans on the ignorance issue. A country that is the greatest Empire of our time cannot possibly be ignorant. Reading some of the opinions in this thread makes me want to revisit my views on Americans and ignorance. I am moving on to another topic.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #227 January 4, 2008 QuoteReading some of the opinions in this thread makes me want to revisit my views on Americans and ignorance. Ah, yes... the "I'm too sophisticated to believe in guns" gambit. QuoteI am moving on to another topic. That's probably for the best.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #228 January 4, 2008 QuoteAh, yes... the "I'm too sophisticated to believe in guns" gambit. I’ll say one last thing to that. The part of the 2nd Amendment of our Constitution that prohibits infringement of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms” is a clear failure. The right to bear arms has created a society that robs and kills with guns more than anyone else in this world. This culture has proven that as a mass it is too immature to handle any warfare objects, and the results show the highest gun murder rate on this planet. When you evaluate issues that affect masses, you can’t look at them from an individualistic point of view, which is precisely what we are doing here in this thread. That’s all. I’m finished.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #229 January 4, 2008 Quote The right to bear arms has created a society that robs and kills with guns more than anyone else in this world. ooookay.. The Second Amendment CAUSES people to become robbers and killers. let me write that one down. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #230 January 4, 2008 I think you're seeing the effects of a more open society than you've seen elsewhere... while we may seem ignorant to others on the planet, some of that is clearly due to our outspoken nature that others aren't allowed. at least in my opinion. removing weapons from a populace has historically proven to be worse on them in the long run than allowing them to arm themselves as protection. we also have one of the highest rape numbers on the planet, should we all be castrated? because others are dishonest and irresponsible should require those of us who aren't pay the consequence in your mind..are you still a socialist at heart? how is it that you find a way to market a food product that isn't fda approved? isn't that rather individualistic and irresponsible? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #231 January 4, 2008 Quotehow is it that you find a way to market a food product that isn't fda approved? If you were refering to my BBQ sauce....it IS FDA approved.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #232 January 4, 2008 QuoteI think you're seeing the effects of a more open society than you've seen elsewhere... So you are saying the the effects are highest gun murder rate, and highest rape rate? I dont buy it. Edited to add: Canadians are as free as Americans (I lived there too), yet they are not nearly as violent. It's a culutural thing my friend, and has little to do with socialism vs. individualism.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #233 January 4, 2008 I was referring to your reference that Americans are ignorant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #234 January 4, 2008 Quoteyou can’t look at them from an individualistic point of view, sorry to hear that, comrade it's completely antithetical to the society we've chosen to experiment with here ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #235 January 4, 2008 QuoteI was referring to your reference that Americans are ignorant. I see...I think the perception of ignorance stems from lack of culture and a weak education system.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #236 January 4, 2008 given what we've accomplished as a nation, I find that hard to follow. why does our "weak education" system attract so many foreigners??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #237 January 4, 2008 Quote given what we've accomplished as a nation, I find that hard to follow. why does our "weak education" system attract so many foreigners??? It's not the education system they are attracted too. It's the capitalism. It's the possibility to make more money here after you get out of school, than anywhere else in the world. Plus the quality of life is awesome here! I wouldnt want to live anywhere else. Our education system, especially grades 1-12 is weak. In this country student classes dumb down education to make sure that the weakest in the class also make it. (This is done for a reason....schools get more money when they show the illusion of performing well based on students' grades) In USSR for example the system was based on the strongest in the class. Everyone had to keep up with the smartest person in class. As a student you are forced to use your brain to catch up. Here the smartest are forced to dumb themselves down. School in this country was so easy for me all I did was get in trouble out of boredom. I cant argue that there are more than a handful universities here that are some of the best in the world, but again, I am looking at the education system as a mass, and not individual schools.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #238 January 4, 2008 Quotegiven what we've accomplished as a nation That point I dont argue. We are the BEST. We are the current world Empire, and I hope we can keep that up. By the way off topic. I was comparing the Roman empire to us the other day. Roman's became an Empire by conquering more land. We dont really take land from other countries, so how did we become one? We take over other country's economies. That's much smarter than simply taking land.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #239 January 4, 2008 Quote given what we've accomplished as a nation, I find that hard to follow. why does our "weak education" system attract so many foreigners??? I don't think many "foreigners" come to the USA for its K-12 education. Lots and lots come for its post-graduate education. In science and engineering, roughly 50% of all graduate students in US universities are foreigners (and the number is increasing again, following a decline after the 9/11 restrictions were put in place).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #240 January 4, 2008 Quote I’ll say one last thing to that. The part of the 2nd Amendment of our Constitution that prohibits infringement of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms” is a clear failure. A failure? The US is one of the longest standing governments in existence, without the need for revolutions or the suffering of dictatorships. Your beloved USSR killed millions of its own citizens. (And sorry, I don't believe you were doing calculus in the 5th grade) BTW, when I travel the world I find that people are pretty much the same everywhere. Some are elistist asses, but most have the same wants, the same vices, and more or less the same guiding morals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #241 January 4, 2008 QuoteYour beloved USSR killed millions of its own citizens. easy to do once you disarm the populace. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #242 January 4, 2008 Fluffy Bunny Feet!Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #243 January 5, 2008 Quote I'll make the point again - if guns were designed for killing, then there's millions that are broken because they've never killed anyone/anything....including mine. Shoot, by this logic someone better go tell the US Government that all their nuclear weapons are broken! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #244 January 5, 2008 This thread is no place for a "Hot Shots" reference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #245 January 5, 2008 Quote Quote The right to bear arms has created a society that robs and kills with guns more than anyone else in this world. ooookay.. The Second Amendment CAUSES people to become robbers and killers. let me write that one down. There's that old reading comprehension thingy again. Try READING what he actually wrote.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #246 January 5, 2008 QuoteThe peer-reviewed source that the UCR data proves wrong...gotcha. Does not. You didn't even bother to check.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #247 January 5, 2008 QuoteQuoteThe peer-reviewed source that the UCR data proves wrong...gotcha. Does not. You didn't even bother to check. You assert that more people owning guns correlates to a higher number of murders. Montana has the highest number of guns owned (by your data), yet has a murder rate of only 2/100k per UCR data.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #248 January 5, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe peer-reviewed source that the UCR data proves wrong...gotcha. Does not. You didn't even bother to check. You assert that more people owning guns correlates to a higher number of murders. Montana has the highest number of guns owned (by your data), yet has a murder rate of only 2/100k per UCR data. One data point does not make a trend. The trend is clear.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #249 January 5, 2008 The trend is clear. Ya, it is. But, when all things are taken into consideration, the "trend" as you put it, does not support your assertions."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #250 January 5, 2008 Quote The trend is clear. Ya, it is. But, when all things are taken into consideration, the "trend" as you put it, does not support your assertions. Not my assertions, the analysis came from Harvard. On the whole I find them more believable than you, especially when I have looked at the raw data they use and find it consistent with the UCR.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ya, it is. But, when all things are taken into consideration, the "trend" as you put it, does not support your assertions.
Not my assertions, the analysis came from Harvard.
On the whole I find them more believable than you, especially when I have looked at the raw data they use and find it consistent with the UCR.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.