Won't sign a traffic ticket? That's a tasering!

[diablopilot 2]

Bull, the cop escalated the situation, the entire time.

What, was it his first day on the job?

A statement to the effect of, "Sir, signing this ticket does not admit any guilt, and you may argue your point in a courtroom where it's safer than the side of a busy road, but if you refuse to sign it the law will force me to place you under arrest." would have been a huge effort towards diffusing the situation.

When the officer decided to make the arrest informing the driver of his intent would have helped too.

I mean WTF? The officer has the guy hop out of the vehicle to arrest him and then turns his back on the guy?

The cop had every intention of making this some sort of big cock power play.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[normiss 635]

IF cops would simply take the time and consideration to make such a comment...we would have a LOT less people arrested, much less tasered.
However, in this day and age...they simply seem to prefer to arrest ... "tell it to the judge" is about the only thing a lot of them seem to say anymore.

We are NOT the enemy.

[KelliJ 0]

"Big cock power play"???
yeah, right.

If anyone was it was the driver.

Did you actually watch and listen to the video? Or did you just glance at it, skip through it, and assume certain aspects? Did you hear the driver try to tell the cop "You're giving me a ticket. First of all you're going to tell me why (the cop had already told him he was speeding...several times) and second of all we're going to go look for the 40 mph sign." Uh, I may be wrong about this but last I checked, when you are being issued a citation you do not tell the cop what he is and isn't going to do...

With all the traffic noise, how do you know he didn't warn the driver of arrest? (By the way, the cop kept the driver in his peripheral vision, he didn't turn his back. But then, the guy was no threat so what difference would it make? )

The only way a person could feel the cop did all the escalating of the situation would be if that person felt the driver did nothing wrong.

[diablopilot 2]

I watched the video three time through.

The driver was wrong. Decidedly so.

But the cop was an idiot. Is this the first time someone has been pissed about getting a ticket? Not by a long shot.

A good cop will be prepared for attitude, frustration, and denial, and very easily diffuse the situation.

As said before, this guy was an amateur.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skycop 0]

Quote

Is this the first time someone has been pissed about getting a ticket? Not by a long shot.

A good cop will be prepared for attitude, frustration, and denial, and very easily diffuse the situation.

Very good point, that is why I said maybe the taser came out a little early. Although diffusing situations is seldom easy, it's very possible this one could have been with a little communication rather than force. If that doesn't work, force can always be used but as a last resort.
The one thing I really enjoy about police work is just that, being thrust into a tense situation and talking the person down. I always try to get the person I deal with to say thank you. You'd be very surprised how many do, even if they have been cited or in some cases arrested. If that happens then I always win and no one (mainly me)gets hurt.
This driver was a knuclehead and I doubt he would have said thank you, but maybe he would have at least understood the gravity of the situation better.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[diablopilot 2]

Precisely.

As you know, being in "Command" of a situation is RARELY decided by who has the louder voice.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[KelliJ 0]

So we agree the driver was an idiot. Good. Yes, a good cop would be prepared as you stated. Another point agreed upon. Was the cop an amateur? I doubt it. Most likely just having a bad day, one made worse by having pulled over someone who insisted upon jerking him around and not cooperating with a simple speeding ticket. We all have our limits of tolerence, even cops. I feel he handled the situation well but should have given the driver one last chance to sign the ticket once he was out of the car. I think you would agree with that.

[ryoder 1,406]

Article with the names and more info. The guy got the video by doing a public records request and posted it himself. So far all charges but the speeding ticket have been dropped.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=3899692&page=2

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[shropshire 0]

<>

Follow procedure which must surely start with him issuing a warning and almost certainly does not allow for shooting someone in tha back.

That cop, on that day, at that event was unprofessional.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[speedy 0]

Quote

Quote

I don't know what everyone is complaining about, do you really believe you live in a democracy where justice is served? Forget it, justice is for the rich, getting tasered is for the rest.

Yeah, that's not worth complaining about at all, is it?

are you asking for a tasering?

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[cloudseeker2001 0]

Quote

So we agree the driver was an idiot. Good. Yes, a good cop would be prepared as you stated. Another point agreed upon. Was the cop an amateur? I doubt it. Most likely just having a bad day, one made worse by having pulled over someone who insisted upon jerking him around and not cooperating with a simple speeding ticket. We all have our limits of tolerence, even cops. I feel he handled the situation well but should have given the driver one last chance to sign the ticket once he was out of the car. I think you would agree with that.

I spent 12 days in southern Utah on vacation last month and I was very surprised by how many new, very young cops are patrolling the highways. I stopped for coffee at a store on HWY 6 near Price and two young cops cased me pretty hard. They did not stop me, but they were looking for something to jack with me about. I think the older, more wise sheriffs must be retiring and the younger ones are fresh out of the military. Which will not go well in places like rural Utah, Arizona and Idaho. Lots of isolationist and lots and lots of BLM land out there! The animals will pick bones clean! Even in Moab the cops were doing things I have never seen them do before.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Even in Moab the cops were doing things I have never seen them do before.

Our compliments go out to the Homeland Security and the Patriot Act.. for taking us down the road to a country we will not recognize...Are you afraid yet.. do you feel the fear?????

They thrive on it.

[jenfly00 0]

Quote

Quote

Even in Moab the cops were doing things I have never seen them do before.

Our compliments go out to the Homeland Security and the Patriot Act.. for taking us down the road to a country we will not recognize...Are you afraid yet.. do you feel the fear?????

They thrive on it.

I posted some time ago that Homeland Security would filter down to have some grim consequences in local law enforcement. The usual right wing 'patriots' generally laughed that such a thing could happen.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[popsjumper 2]

I agree with everything Diablopilot has said so far.

Question, Skycop:

I assume that cop trainees get some sort of training on how to diffuse tense situations. Maybe some interpersonal skills training or something? Surely, police academies don't just turn known loose-cannons out on the unsuspecting public, do they?

If they DO get training, how is it that we see so many of these types of situations happening all over the country?

Do you guys police yourselves? Or is that cover-your-brothers'-ass attitude still prevelent?
(yeah, dumb question, I know)


BTW...in general, it's not mandatory that one be arrested for not signing a ticket. Optional, yes, not mandatory. (yes, I'm aware that some police jurisdiction somewhere may have that sign-or-arrest policy in place).

How is it that Britain's police have a completely different attitude and approach to interacting with the public?

Most of you guys make a mockery out of the motto, "To Serve and to Protect."

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[airdvr 200]

Let's just examine the alternatives. Let's say the cop doesn't use the taser, and instead tries to cuff the guy on a busy highway. The guy isn't just going to just let him put the cuffs on. They struggle and during the fight the guy gets loose and tries to run away...steps out into traffic and gets pulverized by a passing 18 wheeler.

Are you seeing my point yet?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[normiss 635]

the point that it's imperative to arrest an asshole simply because he won't sign a traffic ticket?
no I don't see your point. he may have been a jerk to the cop but the ticket was issued, the response to deal with the ticket would be required or the problem would escalate itself right into legal proceedings anyway. surely a violent arrest isn't needed.
I still think in some ways...the overly agressive approach of a large portion of police have caused a general dislike and untrusting attitude by the public. that feeling seems to be growing...
as my attorney friend tells me all the time...cops are not our friends, cops are not there to serve and protect...they are there for one reason...to arrest people and put them in jail.

[airdvr 200]

cops are not our friends, cops are not there to serve and protect...they are there for one reason...to arrest people and put them in jail.

What else are they supposed to be doing? Tell me how you think this particular incident should have been handled differently. Should the cop have argued and pleaded with this jerk? It was a speeding ticket already! I've had plenty. I make my donation and move on. Yes it pisses me off. So do alot of things in my life. Not a reason to be an ass about it.

So I guess as long as the people they arrest aren't doing you any harm it's a bad thing? C'mon. I'll bet you'd think they were serving and protecting if someone was threatening you and they arrested them.

It seems people are confusing being tasered to being shot. Being tasered probalby hurts like hell, but you'll get over it and have plenty of time to think about how you could have handled yourself differently.

It's real simple out there kids. If a cop stops you and orders you to do something, just do it. If they're wrong a good attorney will hit the lotto for both of you.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[normiss 635]

all I'm saying is...a signature shouldn't be THAT important. as a lot of jurisdictions have decided.
he's still liable...with or without the signature.
being a dick to a cop should not equate a tasering or a trip to jail...although it seems to these days.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

being a dick to a cop should not equate a tasering or a trip to jail...although it seems to these days.

But it sure does turn on the SADISM button in a hurry.

Rather than using interpersonal skills.. a lot of cops seem to have developed an us versus THEM mentality that precludes serving the public. Any and everything is seen as a threat to the cop.... you get a shoot first mentality.. even if there was no real danger.... but they still use.. OH I thought he was a threat.


Protect and serve just rings hollow for too many police forces in todays fascist climate.

[normiss 635]

pretty much my view too...the last time I was pulled over by a dick...the second I asked a question...politely even...the response I got was
"Do you want to go to jail??"
I shut up real quick like.
Stopped once for an "illegal right turn" from the right lane, one way to one way...I still don't understand that one...I started to question why...three other "intimidators" showed up real quick...ready for the tasering and arrest process for my lack of submission to all powers police.


I just don't understand why they have stopped being people. Generally it seems they think they are all powerful and we MUST submit no matter what. A little bit of conversation and explanation goes a long way.

[ryoder 1,406]

Quote

all I'm saying is...a signature shouldn't be THAT important. as a lot of jurisdictions have decided.

On an other forum (where I found the last link I posted), there was an interesting comment from a guy who identified himself as a cop. I'm going from memory here, but it went something like this:

"What is this, 1980??? Every jurisdiction with a clue has dropped the requirement that a traffic ticket must be signed by the recipient. A signature never served any purpose but to cause thousands of roadside confrontations."

Hell, looking through my files, I still have the ticket I got in MI back in 1994 that did not require my signature.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[shropshire 0]

> that's 2 reasons

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jakee 1,271]

Quote

Tell me how you think this particular incident should have been handled differently.

Oh c'mon - you honestly don't think that cop made any mistakes in handling the situation?

The cop turned it into a swinging dick contest the first chance he got.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[normiss 635]

technically it's one...what else do you do with someone once you've arrested them???

[shropshire 0]

.....release them. They dont all go to jail (well not over here... there's no room).

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome