Nightingale 0 #251 October 28, 2007 QuoteQuote But that's all really neither here nor there because the point remains that, in a free country, a right should not be denied simply because a "need" for that right cannot be proven. . Stop whining about your rights. A prohibition on concealed handguns in certain defined areas is not a denial of the right to bear arms. Where is it written that you have a right to take a gun anywhere you please at any time? ...the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #252 October 28, 2007 QuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #253 October 28, 2007 Douva, Brady has a 54 page pdf doc on their site just for the school issue. Thir progran is called "no gun left behind". Here is the front page of the pdf with a minor change made. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #254 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #255 October 29, 2007 Where is it written that you don't have the right? I mean in the US Constitution, not some POS law passed after Teddy Roosevelt was in office. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #256 October 29, 2007 QuoteDouva, Brady has a 54 page pdf doc on their site just for the school issue. Thir progran is called "no gun left behind". Here is the front page of the pdf with a minor change made. SCCC is in the process of tearing it apart line by line. There is very little substance to it.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #257 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? Kallend, between the two of us, you're the only one making a Constitutional argument. I'm arguing my case based on the facts of the issue. There are countless rights not expressly guaranteed (notice that I said "guaranteed," not "granted") by the United States Constitution. The absence of a Constitutional guarantee, in and of itself, is not justification for a state legislature or other governing body to deny people a certain right. If your only remaining argument in opposition of allowing concealed carry on college campuses is that it's not written anywhere that people have the right to carry concealed handguns on college campuses, I believe this discussion has come to an end.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #258 October 29, 2007 I couldn't even read past the table of contents where it says you guy are "forcing guns into academic communities". They can't even write the TOC withou lying.". I mainly wanted the cover page so I could hack it. They also have that map of "high profile" gun violence incidents. They dont even define "high profile". Who funds them, anyway? What a waste. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #259 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? Kallend, between the two of us, you're the only one making a Constitutional argument. I'm arguing my case based on the facts of the issue. There are countless rights not expressly guaranteed (notice that I said "guaranteed," not "granted") by the United States Constitution. The absence of a Constitutional guarantee, in and of itself, is not justification for a state legislature or other governing body to deny people a certain right. If your only remaining argument in opposition of allowing concealed carry on college campuses is that it's not written anywhere that people have the right to carry concealed handguns on college campuses, I believe this discussion has come to an end. If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #260 October 29, 2007 Quote I saw exactly zero empty holsters on our campus last week. Not exactly a priority for students, was it? And you know why that is. In your state, no one has CCW permits, on or off campus. Since this is a demonstration to extend conceal carry from the rest of public to include universities (and not the general movement to get CCW in the few remaining outlier states, there's no one on your campus with standing. Don't feed the troll, people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #261 October 29, 2007 QuoteYou must go to school in a very rough place or be a fearful individual. I've worked since 1970 in colleges and universities and I never felt the need of a gun to defend myself. Neither have any of my colleagues. I would strongly oppose any suggestion to allow guns on our campus for faculty, staff or students. Would you say the same thing about anything else in the BOR? Or is it just SOME rights that you don't agree with the exercise of? QuoteWhy don't you focus on private schools? I'm sure you'll find some in Texas or Florida willing to go along. Then if students flock there and abandon the others you'll have made your point. Would you have advised all those black people that were tired of sitting at the back of the bus to move to Montgomery and join Ms. Parks?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craddock 0 #262 October 29, 2007 QuoteI will be VERY surprised if I see many (or any) empty holsters on our campus. It simply isn't an issue that has ever come up with our faculty senate or our student senate. I am a little late to this discussion and don't plan on reading all the pages but I do have to respond to your post. Why would the issue come up with your Faculty or Student Senate? You teach in one of two states that has no provision for CCW. There is nothing for the school to talk about since it is not allowed at the state level. I am not sure where you teach but Handguns may be banned like in Chicago and some of the neighboring communities. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #263 October 29, 2007 That's a fair explanation for Illinois, but it doesn't account for only 12 (out of 11,000 enrolled) students participating at the school mentioned in the article, does it. Or only 100 or so schools with any participation out of over 4,000 schools in the USA.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #264 October 29, 2007 Quote If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have. A law can be unconstitutional when it's passed. The supreme court can't just decide something is unconstitutional. Someone has to challenge the law for the court to rule on it, but it's not the court's ruling that makes the law unconstitutional. It's the law itself. For example, the law challenged in Lawrence v. Texas that made homosexual sex illegal was always unconstitutional and should never have been enforced. However, it took a supreme court ruling to stop the state from enforcing the law. Before the supreme court ruling, Texas was denying rights to its citizens. (I hope that makes some kind of sense. I haven't had any coffee yet this morning and am half asleep). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #265 October 29, 2007 Quoteonly 12 (out of 11,000 enrolled) students participating at the school mentioned in the article, does it. Or only 100 or so schools with any participation out of over 4,000 schools in the USA. What percentage of the total number of black people in America was represented by Rosa Parks when she refused to sit in the back of the bus? Does that mean that her symbolic protest was not meaningful, or not representative of a much larger sentiment amongst the general population? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #266 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? The Second Amendment. It doesn't say the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, except in public schools. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #267 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? The Second Amendment. It doesn't say the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, except in public schools. Existing statutes restricting unlimited freedom to take any weapons of choice anywhere at any time have been held to be constitutional. Examples, Morton Grove, IL ban on handguns, the ban on ownership of machine guns, bans on taking guns into courthouses or airports, and many many more. So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #268 October 29, 2007 QuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #269 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #270 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln? See? that guy abused his 2nd amendment rights and made it harder for all the law following gun owners. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 622 #271 October 29, 2007 I don't see how the second amendment calls for concealed carry. maybe I too am reading into the "intent" behind it...but I see ownership and concealed carry as two entirely different things. There are plenty of good reasons why not to carry in certain environments. For some reason, the local cop shop won't let me carry inside their facility either...as most businesses in the state. I AM allowed to leave a weapon in my car on those properties, but not on my person. Plenty of federal property won't allow me to even have one in my car...a law abiding gun owner should know and respect the details like this. Criminals...meh...not so much... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piper17 1 #272 October 29, 2007 "So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #273 October 29, 2007 Quote"So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please. I already mentioned some. You can use Google too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #274 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuote If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have. A law can be unconstitutional when it's passed. The supreme court can't just decide something is unconstitutional. Someone has to challenge the law for the court to rule on it, but it's not the court's ruling that makes the law unconstitutional. It's the law itself. For example, the law challenged in Lawrence v. Texas that made homosexual sex illegal was always unconstitutional and should never have been enforced. However, it took a supreme court ruling to stop the state from enforcing the law. Before the supreme court ruling, Texas was denying rights to its citizens. (I hope that makes some kind of sense. I haven't had any coffee yet this morning and am half asleep). Is the ban on machine guns Constitutional? They're definitely firearms.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #275 October 29, 2007 they aren't banned, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next Page 11 of 14 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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1969912 0 #253 October 28, 2007 Douva, Brady has a 54 page pdf doc on their site just for the school issue. Thir progran is called "no gun left behind". Here is the front page of the pdf with a minor change made. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #254 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #255 October 29, 2007 Where is it written that you don't have the right? I mean in the US Constitution, not some POS law passed after Teddy Roosevelt was in office. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #256 October 29, 2007 QuoteDouva, Brady has a 54 page pdf doc on their site just for the school issue. Thir progran is called "no gun left behind". Here is the front page of the pdf with a minor change made. SCCC is in the process of tearing it apart line by line. There is very little substance to it.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #257 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? Kallend, between the two of us, you're the only one making a Constitutional argument. I'm arguing my case based on the facts of the issue. There are countless rights not expressly guaranteed (notice that I said "guaranteed," not "granted") by the United States Constitution. The absence of a Constitutional guarantee, in and of itself, is not justification for a state legislature or other governing body to deny people a certain right. If your only remaining argument in opposition of allowing concealed carry on college campuses is that it's not written anywhere that people have the right to carry concealed handguns on college campuses, I believe this discussion has come to an end.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #258 October 29, 2007 I couldn't even read past the table of contents where it says you guy are "forcing guns into academic communities". They can't even write the TOC withou lying.". I mainly wanted the cover page so I could hack it. They also have that map of "high profile" gun violence incidents. They dont even define "high profile". Who funds them, anyway? What a waste. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #259 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? Kallend, between the two of us, you're the only one making a Constitutional argument. I'm arguing my case based on the facts of the issue. There are countless rights not expressly guaranteed (notice that I said "guaranteed," not "granted") by the United States Constitution. The absence of a Constitutional guarantee, in and of itself, is not justification for a state legislature or other governing body to deny people a certain right. If your only remaining argument in opposition of allowing concealed carry on college campuses is that it's not written anywhere that people have the right to carry concealed handguns on college campuses, I believe this discussion has come to an end. If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #260 October 29, 2007 Quote I saw exactly zero empty holsters on our campus last week. Not exactly a priority for students, was it? And you know why that is. In your state, no one has CCW permits, on or off campus. Since this is a demonstration to extend conceal carry from the rest of public to include universities (and not the general movement to get CCW in the few remaining outlier states, there's no one on your campus with standing. Don't feed the troll, people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #261 October 29, 2007 QuoteYou must go to school in a very rough place or be a fearful individual. I've worked since 1970 in colleges and universities and I never felt the need of a gun to defend myself. Neither have any of my colleagues. I would strongly oppose any suggestion to allow guns on our campus for faculty, staff or students. Would you say the same thing about anything else in the BOR? Or is it just SOME rights that you don't agree with the exercise of? QuoteWhy don't you focus on private schools? I'm sure you'll find some in Texas or Florida willing to go along. Then if students flock there and abandon the others you'll have made your point. Would you have advised all those black people that were tired of sitting at the back of the bus to move to Montgomery and join Ms. Parks?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craddock 0 #262 October 29, 2007 QuoteI will be VERY surprised if I see many (or any) empty holsters on our campus. It simply isn't an issue that has ever come up with our faculty senate or our student senate. I am a little late to this discussion and don't plan on reading all the pages but I do have to respond to your post. Why would the issue come up with your Faculty or Student Senate? You teach in one of two states that has no provision for CCW. There is nothing for the school to talk about since it is not allowed at the state level. I am not sure where you teach but Handguns may be banned like in Chicago and some of the neighboring communities. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #263 October 29, 2007 That's a fair explanation for Illinois, but it doesn't account for only 12 (out of 11,000 enrolled) students participating at the school mentioned in the article, does it. Or only 100 or so schools with any participation out of over 4,000 schools in the USA.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #264 October 29, 2007 Quote If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have. A law can be unconstitutional when it's passed. The supreme court can't just decide something is unconstitutional. Someone has to challenge the law for the court to rule on it, but it's not the court's ruling that makes the law unconstitutional. It's the law itself. For example, the law challenged in Lawrence v. Texas that made homosexual sex illegal was always unconstitutional and should never have been enforced. However, it took a supreme court ruling to stop the state from enforcing the law. Before the supreme court ruling, Texas was denying rights to its citizens. (I hope that makes some kind of sense. I haven't had any coffee yet this morning and am half asleep). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #265 October 29, 2007 Quoteonly 12 (out of 11,000 enrolled) students participating at the school mentioned in the article, does it. Or only 100 or so schools with any participation out of over 4,000 schools in the USA. What percentage of the total number of black people in America was represented by Rosa Parks when she refused to sit in the back of the bus? Does that mean that her symbolic protest was not meaningful, or not representative of a much larger sentiment amongst the general population? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #266 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? The Second Amendment. It doesn't say the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, except in public schools. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #267 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? The Second Amendment. It doesn't say the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, except in public schools. Existing statutes restricting unlimited freedom to take any weapons of choice anywhere at any time have been held to be constitutional. Examples, Morton Grove, IL ban on handguns, the ban on ownership of machine guns, bans on taking guns into courthouses or airports, and many many more. So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #268 October 29, 2007 QuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #269 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #270 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln? See? that guy abused his 2nd amendment rights and made it harder for all the law following gun owners. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 622 #271 October 29, 2007 I don't see how the second amendment calls for concealed carry. maybe I too am reading into the "intent" behind it...but I see ownership and concealed carry as two entirely different things. There are plenty of good reasons why not to carry in certain environments. For some reason, the local cop shop won't let me carry inside their facility either...as most businesses in the state. I AM allowed to leave a weapon in my car on those properties, but not on my person. Plenty of federal property won't allow me to even have one in my car...a law abiding gun owner should know and respect the details like this. Criminals...meh...not so much... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piper17 1 #272 October 29, 2007 "So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #273 October 29, 2007 Quote"So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please. I already mentioned some. You can use Google too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #274 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuote If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have. A law can be unconstitutional when it's passed. The supreme court can't just decide something is unconstitutional. Someone has to challenge the law for the court to rule on it, but it's not the court's ruling that makes the law unconstitutional. It's the law itself. For example, the law challenged in Lawrence v. Texas that made homosexual sex illegal was always unconstitutional and should never have been enforced. However, it took a supreme court ruling to stop the state from enforcing the law. Before the supreme court ruling, Texas was denying rights to its citizens. (I hope that makes some kind of sense. I haven't had any coffee yet this morning and am half asleep). Is the ban on machine guns Constitutional? They're definitely firearms.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #275 October 29, 2007 they aren't banned, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next Page 11 of 14 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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warpedskydiver 0 #255 October 29, 2007 Where is it written that you don't have the right? I mean in the US Constitution, not some POS law passed after Teddy Roosevelt was in office. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #256 October 29, 2007 QuoteDouva, Brady has a 54 page pdf doc on their site just for the school issue. Thir progran is called "no gun left behind". Here is the front page of the pdf with a minor change made. SCCC is in the process of tearing it apart line by line. There is very little substance to it.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #257 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? Kallend, between the two of us, you're the only one making a Constitutional argument. I'm arguing my case based on the facts of the issue. There are countless rights not expressly guaranteed (notice that I said "guaranteed," not "granted") by the United States Constitution. The absence of a Constitutional guarantee, in and of itself, is not justification for a state legislature or other governing body to deny people a certain right. If your only remaining argument in opposition of allowing concealed carry on college campuses is that it's not written anywhere that people have the right to carry concealed handguns on college campuses, I believe this discussion has come to an end.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #258 October 29, 2007 I couldn't even read past the table of contents where it says you guy are "forcing guns into academic communities". They can't even write the TOC withou lying.". I mainly wanted the cover page so I could hack it. They also have that map of "high profile" gun violence incidents. They dont even define "high profile". Who funds them, anyway? What a waste. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #259 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? Kallend, between the two of us, you're the only one making a Constitutional argument. I'm arguing my case based on the facts of the issue. There are countless rights not expressly guaranteed (notice that I said "guaranteed," not "granted") by the United States Constitution. The absence of a Constitutional guarantee, in and of itself, is not justification for a state legislature or other governing body to deny people a certain right. If your only remaining argument in opposition of allowing concealed carry on college campuses is that it's not written anywhere that people have the right to carry concealed handguns on college campuses, I believe this discussion has come to an end. If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #260 October 29, 2007 Quote I saw exactly zero empty holsters on our campus last week. Not exactly a priority for students, was it? And you know why that is. In your state, no one has CCW permits, on or off campus. Since this is a demonstration to extend conceal carry from the rest of public to include universities (and not the general movement to get CCW in the few remaining outlier states, there's no one on your campus with standing. Don't feed the troll, people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #261 October 29, 2007 QuoteYou must go to school in a very rough place or be a fearful individual. I've worked since 1970 in colleges and universities and I never felt the need of a gun to defend myself. Neither have any of my colleagues. I would strongly oppose any suggestion to allow guns on our campus for faculty, staff or students. Would you say the same thing about anything else in the BOR? Or is it just SOME rights that you don't agree with the exercise of? QuoteWhy don't you focus on private schools? I'm sure you'll find some in Texas or Florida willing to go along. Then if students flock there and abandon the others you'll have made your point. Would you have advised all those black people that were tired of sitting at the back of the bus to move to Montgomery and join Ms. Parks?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craddock 0 #262 October 29, 2007 QuoteI will be VERY surprised if I see many (or any) empty holsters on our campus. It simply isn't an issue that has ever come up with our faculty senate or our student senate. I am a little late to this discussion and don't plan on reading all the pages but I do have to respond to your post. Why would the issue come up with your Faculty or Student Senate? You teach in one of two states that has no provision for CCW. There is nothing for the school to talk about since it is not allowed at the state level. I am not sure where you teach but Handguns may be banned like in Chicago and some of the neighboring communities. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #263 October 29, 2007 That's a fair explanation for Illinois, but it doesn't account for only 12 (out of 11,000 enrolled) students participating at the school mentioned in the article, does it. Or only 100 or so schools with any participation out of over 4,000 schools in the USA.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #264 October 29, 2007 Quote If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have. A law can be unconstitutional when it's passed. The supreme court can't just decide something is unconstitutional. Someone has to challenge the law for the court to rule on it, but it's not the court's ruling that makes the law unconstitutional. It's the law itself. For example, the law challenged in Lawrence v. Texas that made homosexual sex illegal was always unconstitutional and should never have been enforced. However, it took a supreme court ruling to stop the state from enforcing the law. Before the supreme court ruling, Texas was denying rights to its citizens. (I hope that makes some kind of sense. I haven't had any coffee yet this morning and am half asleep). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #265 October 29, 2007 Quoteonly 12 (out of 11,000 enrolled) students participating at the school mentioned in the article, does it. Or only 100 or so schools with any participation out of over 4,000 schools in the USA. What percentage of the total number of black people in America was represented by Rosa Parks when she refused to sit in the back of the bus? Does that mean that her symbolic protest was not meaningful, or not representative of a much larger sentiment amongst the general population? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #266 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? The Second Amendment. It doesn't say the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, except in public schools. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #267 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? The Second Amendment. It doesn't say the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, except in public schools. Existing statutes restricting unlimited freedom to take any weapons of choice anywhere at any time have been held to be constitutional. Examples, Morton Grove, IL ban on handguns, the ban on ownership of machine guns, bans on taking guns into courthouses or airports, and many many more. So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #268 October 29, 2007 QuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #269 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #270 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln? See? that guy abused his 2nd amendment rights and made it harder for all the law following gun owners. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 622 #271 October 29, 2007 I don't see how the second amendment calls for concealed carry. maybe I too am reading into the "intent" behind it...but I see ownership and concealed carry as two entirely different things. There are plenty of good reasons why not to carry in certain environments. For some reason, the local cop shop won't let me carry inside their facility either...as most businesses in the state. I AM allowed to leave a weapon in my car on those properties, but not on my person. Plenty of federal property won't allow me to even have one in my car...a law abiding gun owner should know and respect the details like this. Criminals...meh...not so much... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piper17 1 #272 October 29, 2007 "So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #273 October 29, 2007 Quote"So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please. I already mentioned some. You can use Google too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #274 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuote If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have. A law can be unconstitutional when it's passed. The supreme court can't just decide something is unconstitutional. Someone has to challenge the law for the court to rule on it, but it's not the court's ruling that makes the law unconstitutional. It's the law itself. For example, the law challenged in Lawrence v. Texas that made homosexual sex illegal was always unconstitutional and should never have been enforced. However, it took a supreme court ruling to stop the state from enforcing the law. Before the supreme court ruling, Texas was denying rights to its citizens. (I hope that makes some kind of sense. I haven't had any coffee yet this morning and am half asleep). Is the ban on machine guns Constitutional? They're definitely firearms.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #275 October 29, 2007 they aren't banned, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next Page 11 of 14 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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1969912 0 #258 October 29, 2007 I couldn't even read past the table of contents where it says you guy are "forcing guns into academic communities". They can't even write the TOC withou lying.". I mainly wanted the cover page so I could hack it. They also have that map of "high profile" gun violence incidents. They dont even define "high profile". Who funds them, anyway? What a waste. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #259 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? Kallend, between the two of us, you're the only one making a Constitutional argument. I'm arguing my case based on the facts of the issue. There are countless rights not expressly guaranteed (notice that I said "guaranteed," not "granted") by the United States Constitution. The absence of a Constitutional guarantee, in and of itself, is not justification for a state legislature or other governing body to deny people a certain right. If your only remaining argument in opposition of allowing concealed carry on college campuses is that it's not written anywhere that people have the right to carry concealed handguns on college campuses, I believe this discussion has come to an end. If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #260 October 29, 2007 Quote I saw exactly zero empty holsters on our campus last week. Not exactly a priority for students, was it? And you know why that is. In your state, no one has CCW permits, on or off campus. Since this is a demonstration to extend conceal carry from the rest of public to include universities (and not the general movement to get CCW in the few remaining outlier states, there's no one on your campus with standing. Don't feed the troll, people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #261 October 29, 2007 QuoteYou must go to school in a very rough place or be a fearful individual. I've worked since 1970 in colleges and universities and I never felt the need of a gun to defend myself. Neither have any of my colleagues. I would strongly oppose any suggestion to allow guns on our campus for faculty, staff or students. Would you say the same thing about anything else in the BOR? Or is it just SOME rights that you don't agree with the exercise of? QuoteWhy don't you focus on private schools? I'm sure you'll find some in Texas or Florida willing to go along. Then if students flock there and abandon the others you'll have made your point. Would you have advised all those black people that were tired of sitting at the back of the bus to move to Montgomery and join Ms. Parks?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craddock 0 #262 October 29, 2007 QuoteI will be VERY surprised if I see many (or any) empty holsters on our campus. It simply isn't an issue that has ever come up with our faculty senate or our student senate. I am a little late to this discussion and don't plan on reading all the pages but I do have to respond to your post. Why would the issue come up with your Faculty or Student Senate? You teach in one of two states that has no provision for CCW. There is nothing for the school to talk about since it is not allowed at the state level. I am not sure where you teach but Handguns may be banned like in Chicago and some of the neighboring communities. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #263 October 29, 2007 That's a fair explanation for Illinois, but it doesn't account for only 12 (out of 11,000 enrolled) students participating at the school mentioned in the article, does it. Or only 100 or so schools with any participation out of over 4,000 schools in the USA.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #264 October 29, 2007 Quote If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have. A law can be unconstitutional when it's passed. The supreme court can't just decide something is unconstitutional. Someone has to challenge the law for the court to rule on it, but it's not the court's ruling that makes the law unconstitutional. It's the law itself. For example, the law challenged in Lawrence v. Texas that made homosexual sex illegal was always unconstitutional and should never have been enforced. However, it took a supreme court ruling to stop the state from enforcing the law. Before the supreme court ruling, Texas was denying rights to its citizens. (I hope that makes some kind of sense. I haven't had any coffee yet this morning and am half asleep). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #265 October 29, 2007 Quoteonly 12 (out of 11,000 enrolled) students participating at the school mentioned in the article, does it. Or only 100 or so schools with any participation out of over 4,000 schools in the USA. What percentage of the total number of black people in America was represented by Rosa Parks when she refused to sit in the back of the bus? Does that mean that her symbolic protest was not meaningful, or not representative of a much larger sentiment amongst the general population? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #266 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? The Second Amendment. It doesn't say the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, except in public schools. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #267 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? The Second Amendment. It doesn't say the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, except in public schools. Existing statutes restricting unlimited freedom to take any weapons of choice anywhere at any time have been held to be constitutional. Examples, Morton Grove, IL ban on handguns, the ban on ownership of machine guns, bans on taking guns into courthouses or airports, and many many more. So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #268 October 29, 2007 QuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #269 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #270 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln? See? that guy abused his 2nd amendment rights and made it harder for all the law following gun owners. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 622 #271 October 29, 2007 I don't see how the second amendment calls for concealed carry. maybe I too am reading into the "intent" behind it...but I see ownership and concealed carry as two entirely different things. There are plenty of good reasons why not to carry in certain environments. For some reason, the local cop shop won't let me carry inside their facility either...as most businesses in the state. I AM allowed to leave a weapon in my car on those properties, but not on my person. Plenty of federal property won't allow me to even have one in my car...a law abiding gun owner should know and respect the details like this. Criminals...meh...not so much... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piper17 1 #272 October 29, 2007 "So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #273 October 29, 2007 Quote"So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please. I already mentioned some. You can use Google too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #274 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuote If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have. A law can be unconstitutional when it's passed. The supreme court can't just decide something is unconstitutional. Someone has to challenge the law for the court to rule on it, but it's not the court's ruling that makes the law unconstitutional. It's the law itself. For example, the law challenged in Lawrence v. Texas that made homosexual sex illegal was always unconstitutional and should never have been enforced. However, it took a supreme court ruling to stop the state from enforcing the law. Before the supreme court ruling, Texas was denying rights to its citizens. (I hope that makes some kind of sense. I haven't had any coffee yet this morning and am half asleep). Is the ban on machine guns Constitutional? They're definitely firearms.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #275 October 29, 2007 they aren't banned, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next Page 11 of 14 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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kelpdiver 2 #260 October 29, 2007 Quote I saw exactly zero empty holsters on our campus last week. Not exactly a priority for students, was it? And you know why that is. In your state, no one has CCW permits, on or off campus. Since this is a demonstration to extend conceal carry from the rest of public to include universities (and not the general movement to get CCW in the few remaining outlier states, there's no one on your campus with standing. Don't feed the troll, people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #261 October 29, 2007 QuoteYou must go to school in a very rough place or be a fearful individual. I've worked since 1970 in colleges and universities and I never felt the need of a gun to defend myself. Neither have any of my colleagues. I would strongly oppose any suggestion to allow guns on our campus for faculty, staff or students. Would you say the same thing about anything else in the BOR? Or is it just SOME rights that you don't agree with the exercise of? QuoteWhy don't you focus on private schools? I'm sure you'll find some in Texas or Florida willing to go along. Then if students flock there and abandon the others you'll have made your point. Would you have advised all those black people that were tired of sitting at the back of the bus to move to Montgomery and join Ms. Parks?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #262 October 29, 2007 QuoteI will be VERY surprised if I see many (or any) empty holsters on our campus. It simply isn't an issue that has ever come up with our faculty senate or our student senate. I am a little late to this discussion and don't plan on reading all the pages but I do have to respond to your post. Why would the issue come up with your Faculty or Student Senate? You teach in one of two states that has no provision for CCW. There is nothing for the school to talk about since it is not allowed at the state level. I am not sure where you teach but Handguns may be banned like in Chicago and some of the neighboring communities. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #263 October 29, 2007 That's a fair explanation for Illinois, but it doesn't account for only 12 (out of 11,000 enrolled) students participating at the school mentioned in the article, does it. Or only 100 or so schools with any participation out of over 4,000 schools in the USA.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #264 October 29, 2007 Quote If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have. A law can be unconstitutional when it's passed. The supreme court can't just decide something is unconstitutional. Someone has to challenge the law for the court to rule on it, but it's not the court's ruling that makes the law unconstitutional. It's the law itself. For example, the law challenged in Lawrence v. Texas that made homosexual sex illegal was always unconstitutional and should never have been enforced. However, it took a supreme court ruling to stop the state from enforcing the law. Before the supreme court ruling, Texas was denying rights to its citizens. (I hope that makes some kind of sense. I haven't had any coffee yet this morning and am half asleep). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #265 October 29, 2007 Quoteonly 12 (out of 11,000 enrolled) students participating at the school mentioned in the article, does it. Or only 100 or so schools with any participation out of over 4,000 schools in the USA. What percentage of the total number of black people in America was represented by Rosa Parks when she refused to sit in the back of the bus? Does that mean that her symbolic protest was not meaningful, or not representative of a much larger sentiment amongst the general population? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #266 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? The Second Amendment. It doesn't say the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, except in public schools. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #267 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? The Second Amendment. It doesn't say the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, except in public schools. Existing statutes restricting unlimited freedom to take any weapons of choice anywhere at any time have been held to be constitutional. Examples, Morton Grove, IL ban on handguns, the ban on ownership of machine guns, bans on taking guns into courthouses or airports, and many many more. So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #268 October 29, 2007 QuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #269 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #270 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln? See? that guy abused his 2nd amendment rights and made it harder for all the law following gun owners. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 622 #271 October 29, 2007 I don't see how the second amendment calls for concealed carry. maybe I too am reading into the "intent" behind it...but I see ownership and concealed carry as two entirely different things. There are plenty of good reasons why not to carry in certain environments. For some reason, the local cop shop won't let me carry inside their facility either...as most businesses in the state. I AM allowed to leave a weapon in my car on those properties, but not on my person. Plenty of federal property won't allow me to even have one in my car...a law abiding gun owner should know and respect the details like this. Criminals...meh...not so much... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piper17 1 #272 October 29, 2007 "So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #273 October 29, 2007 Quote"So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please. I already mentioned some. You can use Google too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #274 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuote If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have. A law can be unconstitutional when it's passed. The supreme court can't just decide something is unconstitutional. Someone has to challenge the law for the court to rule on it, but it's not the court's ruling that makes the law unconstitutional. It's the law itself. For example, the law challenged in Lawrence v. Texas that made homosexual sex illegal was always unconstitutional and should never have been enforced. However, it took a supreme court ruling to stop the state from enforcing the law. Before the supreme court ruling, Texas was denying rights to its citizens. (I hope that makes some kind of sense. I haven't had any coffee yet this morning and am half asleep). Is the ban on machine guns Constitutional? They're definitely firearms.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #275 October 29, 2007 they aren't banned, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next Page 11 of 14 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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kallend 1,623 #267 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Stop whining about your rights. I'm whining about my rights because the belief that rights should not be denied without just cause is the foundation of a free nation. Again, where is it written that you have a right to take a concealed weapon into a public school? The Second Amendment. It doesn't say the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, except in public schools. Existing statutes restricting unlimited freedom to take any weapons of choice anywhere at any time have been held to be constitutional. Examples, Morton Grove, IL ban on handguns, the ban on ownership of machine guns, bans on taking guns into courthouses or airports, and many many more. So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #268 October 29, 2007 QuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #269 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #270 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln? See? that guy abused his 2nd amendment rights and made it harder for all the law following gun owners. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 622 #271 October 29, 2007 I don't see how the second amendment calls for concealed carry. maybe I too am reading into the "intent" behind it...but I see ownership and concealed carry as two entirely different things. There are plenty of good reasons why not to carry in certain environments. For some reason, the local cop shop won't let me carry inside their facility either...as most businesses in the state. I AM allowed to leave a weapon in my car on those properties, but not on my person. Plenty of federal property won't allow me to even have one in my car...a law abiding gun owner should know and respect the details like this. Criminals...meh...not so much... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piper17 1 #272 October 29, 2007 "So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #273 October 29, 2007 Quote"So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please. I already mentioned some. You can use Google too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #274 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuote If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have. A law can be unconstitutional when it's passed. The supreme court can't just decide something is unconstitutional. Someone has to challenge the law for the court to rule on it, but it's not the court's ruling that makes the law unconstitutional. It's the law itself. For example, the law challenged in Lawrence v. Texas that made homosexual sex illegal was always unconstitutional and should never have been enforced. However, it took a supreme court ruling to stop the state from enforcing the law. Before the supreme court ruling, Texas was denying rights to its citizens. (I hope that makes some kind of sense. I haven't had any coffee yet this morning and am half asleep). Is the ban on machine guns Constitutional? They're definitely firearms.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #275 October 29, 2007 they aren't banned, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next Page 11 of 14 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
rehmwa 2 #268 October 29, 2007 QuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #269 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #270 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, for example, you can't fire a gun in a crowded theator But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln? See? that guy abused his 2nd amendment rights and made it harder for all the law following gun owners. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #271 October 29, 2007 I don't see how the second amendment calls for concealed carry. maybe I too am reading into the "intent" behind it...but I see ownership and concealed carry as two entirely different things. There are plenty of good reasons why not to carry in certain environments. For some reason, the local cop shop won't let me carry inside their facility either...as most businesses in the state. I AM allowed to leave a weapon in my car on those properties, but not on my person. Plenty of federal property won't allow me to even have one in my car...a law abiding gun owner should know and respect the details like this. Criminals...meh...not so much... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #272 October 29, 2007 "So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #273 October 29, 2007 Quote"So just like the 1st Amendment doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, so the 2nd has limits too, that the courts have upheld." Please cite specific cases. I'd be very interested in seeing what has actually been "upheld" by the courts. Please skip the usual "Brady bunch" fictional "cases" and misinterpretations. Just the facts, please. I already mentioned some. You can use Google too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #274 October 29, 2007 QuoteQuote If a state legislature passes a law and the Supreme Court has not overruled it on Constitutional grounds, it seems to me that it hasn't violated any imagined right that you may think you have. A law can be unconstitutional when it's passed. The supreme court can't just decide something is unconstitutional. Someone has to challenge the law for the court to rule on it, but it's not the court's ruling that makes the law unconstitutional. It's the law itself. For example, the law challenged in Lawrence v. Texas that made homosexual sex illegal was always unconstitutional and should never have been enforced. However, it took a supreme court ruling to stop the state from enforcing the law. Before the supreme court ruling, Texas was denying rights to its citizens. (I hope that makes some kind of sense. I haven't had any coffee yet this morning and am half asleep). Is the ban on machine guns Constitutional? They're definitely firearms.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #275 October 29, 2007 they aren't banned, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
