jakee 1,257 #1076 March 26, 2007 Quote Oh, it's not his decision that stands out; it was the motivation for his decision. A motivation that I can assure you does not apply to me. I do agree that non belief in God probably makes it easier to be 'liberated', however I very much doubt that it factors into many people's decisions on whether or not to believe. I also disagree that the liberation Huxley talks about is neccesarily a bad thing, certainly not worthy of a "confession".Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #1077 March 26, 2007 Quote It's the confession of an honest skeptic/agnostic/atheist. Are you kidding? He is agnostic, not atheist. Those are completely different things. Please check the vocabulary. Quote I must confess--- this is ironic. An atheist getting bent out of shape if something from one of their icons is taken out of context! No, instead I find it funny when someone is trying to prove something using quotes from the book they never read, having no idea themselves what it means. Quote As for this quote, according to Dr. Charles F. Urbanowicz, Professor of Anthropology at Cal State, there were 6 editions of Origin of Species Thank you, I know this since I was in high school. Quote and the "Creator" was inserted in the 2nd and subsequent editions. Oh, but I know, "he didn't really mean it!".... whatever; he certainly did at one point in his life. So what is YOUR point? If you are trying to say that Darwin believed in God - okey, let's assume he did. Everyone could make a mistake, and Darwin was not an exception. What is your point then?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badenhop 0 #1078 March 26, 2007 Quote Everyone could make a mistake. Indeed George, and that would include you.================================== I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton http://www.AveryBadenhop.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #1079 March 26, 2007 Quote Indeed George, and that would include you. And you.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #1080 March 26, 2007 QuoteNo, instead I find it funny when someone is trying to prove something using quotes from the book they never read, having no idea themselves what it means. That happens a lot here in SC when atheist quote texts out of context from te bible. Especially parables from JC. While they may have read portions of the bible (or even all of it), undoubtedly they have no understanding based on how they misues the different genres of scripture to prove their point. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #1081 March 26, 2007 And who is to define what is the correct understanding, you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #1082 March 26, 2007 QuoteAnd who is to define what is the correct understanding, you? No, not me, or my professors. Even though free interpretation of scripture is a major tenant in protestant christianity, I believe we need a guide. So does the Apostle Peter according to his second letter to the church. "First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation" (2Pet.1:20), Peter goes on to say it is the Holy Spirit who is the guide who gives correct interpretation. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #1083 March 26, 2007 Problem is he doesnt seem to hand out the same advice to everyone. Lots of people have done lots of contrary things believing they were guided by either the holy spirit or some other equally vague concpet. How are you able to disntinguish the holy spritis voice in your head to any other thought that pops in? Why doesnt the holy spirit go and whisper in the fundies ear? Why didnt the holy spirit tell the Pope he was going to give the Catholic church a bad rap for its treatment of Bruno and Galileo? Do you really think a text that needs a ghost to interpret it for you,an invicible ghost no less, is reaally a text that should be the foundation for modern living? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #1084 March 26, 2007 One thing I do believe is those who do not have the HS have ZERO possibility of understanding Him. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #1085 March 26, 2007 Quote"First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation" (2Pet.1:20), Peter goes on to say it is the Holy Spirit who is the guide who gives correct interpretation. Given the myriad of biblical interpretations out there, it seems the holy spirit is fickle in who he imparts his wisdom to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #1086 March 26, 2007 QuoteOne thing I do believe is those who do not have the HS have ZERO possibility of understanding Him. And possession of the holy spirit is determined how exactly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #1087 March 26, 2007 QuotePeter goes on to say it is the Holy Spirit who is the guide who gives correct interpretation. And given that many passages seem to be open to interpretation in nearly limitless ways who the hell really knows when the holy spirit is guiding them? I tell you what, who do you think has been most guided by the holy spirit out of this list: The Eastern Orthodox The Western Orthodox The Assyrians The Oriental Orthodox The Catholics The Episcopals The Anglicans The Evangelicals The Lutheran Protestants The Reformed The Presbyterians The Congregationalists The Anabaptists The Methodists The Pietists The Baptists The Spiritual Baptists The Brethren The Apostolics The Pentacostals The Charismatics The NeoCharismatics The African Initiated The United The Quakers The Christian Scientists The Mormons The Adventists The Jehovahs Witnesses Or You?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #1088 March 26, 2007 QuoteOne thing I do believe is those who do not have the HS have ZERO possibility of understanding Him. How would you know if you have the Holy Spirit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #1089 March 26, 2007 QuoteQuotePeter goes on to say it is the Holy Spirit who is the guide who gives correct interpretation. And given that many passages seem to be open to interpretation in nearly limitless ways who the hell really knows when the holy spirit is guiding them? I tell you what, who do you think has been most guided by the holy spirit out of this list: The Eastern Orthodox The Western Orthodox The Assyrians The Oriental Orthodox The Catholics The Episcopals The Anglicans The Evangelicals The Lutheran Protestants The Reformed The Presbyterians The Congregationalists The Anabaptists The Methodists The Pietists The Baptists The Spiritual Baptists The Brethren The Apostolics The Pentacostals The Charismatics The NeoCharismatics The African Initiated The United The Quakers The Christian Scientists The Mormons The Adventists The Jehovahs Witnesses Or You? You assume that all these groups disagree on most issues. The truth be known most of them agree on the essentials of Christian faith. They typically follow the teaching of St. Augustine. "In the essentials of faith have unity, in the non-essentials of faith have liberty; in all areas of faith show charity (love)" Of those you listed most believe the orthodox teachings of Christianity. Of tht majority most feel the JWs, Mormons, Christian Scientists (what christian church is the assyrians??) are cults because they do not follow orthodox teachings of Christianity steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #1090 March 26, 2007 QuoteQuoteOne thing I do believe is those who do not have the HS have ZERO possibility of understanding Him. And possession of the holy spirit is determined how exactly? Read Acts 1 & 2. JC declares it come on his followers who are born again. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #1091 March 26, 2007 "One thing I do believe is those who do not have the HS have ZERO possibility of understanding Him. " Well if the Christian message is so important then maybe it should be more probable than zero to understand it,even for those without the HS? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #1092 March 26, 2007 Could you please be more vague. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #1093 March 26, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteOne thing I do believe is those who do not have the HS have ZERO possibility of understanding Him. And possession of the holy spirit is determined how exactly? Read Acts 1 & 2. JC declares it come on his followers who are born again. Let me get this straight. In order to understand the Bible, I need to have the Holy Spirit with me. But in order to know if I have the Holy Spirit with me, I need to read the Bible? You have got to be kidding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #1094 March 26, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteOne thing I do believe is those who do not have the HS have ZERO possibility of understanding Him. And possession of the holy spirit is determined how exactly? Read Acts 1 & 2. JC declares it come on his followers who are born again. I have heard this reasoning by born-again Christians (almost always Protestants) to exclude people who are Catholics or Eastern/Greek/Russian Orthodox who do not consider themselves to be "born again" - even if they simply grow up in the faith, and believe in Jesus Christ as a result of their upbringing and life experience and practice. I challenge anyone to tell my very devout Catholic parents-in-law that they are somehow less possessed of the Holy Spirit than someone who considers himself a "born-again Christian". They will laugh out loud. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #1095 March 26, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOne thing I do believe is those who do not have the HS have ZERO possibility of understanding Him. And possession of the holy spirit is determined how exactly? Read Acts 1 & 2. JC declares it come on his followers who are born again. Let me get this straight. In order to understand the Bible, I need to have the Holy Spirit with me. But in order to know if I have the Holy Spirit with me, I need to read the Bible? You have got to be kidding. I'd say millions and millions of Christians have come to Christ w/o the benefit of scriptures. Typical of most people today you assume everyone everywhere lives like those in the US and Western Eurpean countries. However, the passage that indicates the HS gives insight to scripture to Christians that those who are not Christian do not have is not from me, but from the Apostle Peter. If you take umbrage with that you'll have to address him, not me. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #1096 March 26, 2007 QuoteCould you please be more vague. Jack's question sounded like a request for scripture references to me. Should I have pasted Acts 1 & 2 for you? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #1097 March 26, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOne thing I do believe is those who do not have the HS have ZERO possibility of understanding Him. And possession of the holy spirit is determined how exactly? Read Acts 1 & 2. JC declares it come on his followers who are born again. I have heard this reasoning by born-again Christians (almost always Protestants) to exclude people who are Catholics or Eastern/Greek/Russian Orthodox who do not consider themselves to be "born again" - even if they simply grow up in the faith, and believe in Jesus Christ as a result of their upbringing and life experience and practice. I challenge anyone to tell my very devout Catholic parents-in-law that they are somehow less possessed of the Holy Spirit than someone who considers himself a "born-again Christian". They will laugh out loud. I read that too, and I agree with you. I believe Christianity is about accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior, not which church denomination you attend. The term "born again" took on a life of its own in the 1960s. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #1098 March 26, 2007 QuoteI'd say millions and millions of Christians have come to Christ w/o the benefit of scriptures. I'd say you are wrong. If the indiginous people of wherever had never heard of Christ or had access to scripture, how in hell could they ever get to him? In order for someone to come to a particular religion, they need to be taught or they will remain ignorant of that religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #1099 March 26, 2007 QuoteQuoteI'd say millions and millions of Christians have come to Christ w/o the benefit of scriptures. I'd say you are wrong. If the indiginous people of wherever had never heard of Christ or had access to scripture, how in hell could they ever get to him? In order for someone to come to a particular religion, they need to be taught or they will remain ignorant of that religion. I said w/o scriptures, not w/o evangels. The first Christians did not have a bible (as we know it now) for 100s of years. The message was brought by the Apostles and other disciples. Letters of Paul, Peter, James John, and other writers were circulated, but not available to everyone. The message was word of mouth. For the most part that is how it is today. While most homes in the USA may have a bible the majority of the people who became a Christian did so through the preaching or teaching of someone else. (info from Barnha Research) steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #1100 March 26, 2007 all any 'believer in the bible' can do is deny that FACT that it is all lie. Gen 6:4 Nephilim 'Gods who from the heavens came' Exodus 15:3 Jehovah is the lord of WAR, Jehovah is his name Isaiah 43:11 I am the only savoiur, there is NO other saviour before me. mathew 1:23 ...and they shall call him immanuel- NOT JESUS Luke 19:27 bring all who will not have me as king before me and slay them before me. 1 cor 2:2 look only at the cross and christ slain upon it (if you look at any other idea you are going to hell) romans 13:1-7 do what you're told to do, because the authorities are anointed of god. Bush is a messenger of god? CHRISTIAN FASCISM Pope Leo X 'what [profit hath not the fable of christ brought us. Thomas Jefferson-The christian religion is the most perverted system that ever shone upon man You can order Chrishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled at www.truthbeknown.com THE ATTACHMENT VICTIMS IS AN INCOMPLETE LIST OF WHO HAS BEEN MURDERED IN THE NAME OF CHRIST SINCE CHRISTIANITY BECAME THE STATE RELIGION 1700 YRS AGO www.infidel.orgwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
