Do u beleave in God

[Mockingbird 0]

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I have never seen anyone objecting a person who was just saying that he believes in God/Jesus/Satan/Vodka.

I guess you haven't been reading the religion threads around here. For example, read p. 19 of this thread.

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The problem is not the people believing in God and following some rules.
The problem is when they force everyone else following the same rules.

I really haven't seen Christians here do that.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[georgerussia 0]

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I guess you haven't been reading the religion threads around here.

Well, when someone only saying that he or she is believing in something, there is really nothing to discuss about except maybe questions like "why". People use to believe in whatever they want, from Messiah to UFOs and Shambala.
However when people start making conclusions based on their beliefs, this becomes a problem. There is a big difference between telling us that you believe in Jesus and telling us that Jesus (the person you believe but have no proof he existed) was crucified (the action you believe but have no proof it happened) to save us (the conclusion you base on the Bible which you believe to contain truth but have no proof it does).

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I really haven't seen Christians here do that.

But the Christians here cannot do it either. So the question is whether they are not doing it because they do not want to, or just because they cannot do it because of lack of power. Looking on what happens around there is a possibility that they would still do it if they had appropriate power.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Thanks, I don't need a fuller explanation. You answered my question. Evolutions does have as many questions as it has answers. There are lots of gaps in man's understanding of evolution.

I'd change the wording - there are still a lot of gaps in man's understanding of evolution. But we are working to close them, and we are making progress.

But the biggest difference is that there is already enough evidence present to prove that evolution did happen, even though some things still cannot be explained. However there is no single evidence that the creation described in the Bible happened.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[badenhop 0]

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Jesus (the person you believe but have no proof he existed) was crucified (the action you believe but have no proof it happened)

There is a ton of evidence that He lived, and was crucified.

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[georgerussia 0]

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There is a ton of evidence that He lived, and was crucified.

So far the only evidence we have is the Bible, which contain truth according to a claim of the group of people. However they cannot prove their claim, so it is only based on their beliefs. There is also evidence that the Bible itself contains a lot of contradictions, which should not be a case for any book inspired by any Higher Intellect.

If you have additional evidence, which is NOT based on beliefs - let me know, it will be the first time I'd hear it. Obviously the Bible is not an acceptable evidence.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[elmo87 0]

I dont belive in good, bot i belive in that wee will bee reborn

Dream as you´ll live forever..Live as you´ll die today

[Mockingbird 0]

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Well, when someone only saying that he or she is believing in something, there is really nothing to discuss about except maybe questions like "why".

OK, so Non-Christians, when they hear a statement of what a Christian believes can 1) not respond/ignore it, 2) ask "why?", 3) state their own beliefs, or 4) dis or make accusations.

Some here do #3 and state their own beliefs. Good. Most people probably fit into #1-- they just keep reading/move to another thread. Very few actually ask (with sincerity) Christians WHY they believe. But quite a lot do #4-- which is pretty juvenile, IMO. That they can't come up with a more thoughtful response is pretty sad. How do you have an interesting discussion with someone like that?

Frankly, I think the Christians here have been pretty tolerant of dz.com's non-Christians' rudeness and accusations-- we try to back up what we say, we take questions seriously and try to answer them honestly. Granted, one of us gets a bit crotchety at times...

But I'm digressing. We were talking about who has the burden of proof; and I still say that whoever makes a claim has the burden of proof. When someone states his belief, he isn't making a claim. But responding with "The Christian god is just a myth" is making a claim, and that person has the burden of proof.

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However when people start making conclusions based on their beliefs, this becomes a problem.

Doesn't everyone do this?

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There is a big difference between telling us that you believe in Jesus and telling us that Jesus (the person you believe but have no proof he existed) was crucified (the action you believe but have no proof it happened) to save us (the conclusion you base on the Bible which you believe to contain truth but have no proof it does).

Is it the Gospel that offends you? or that we believe and state something for which we haven't proof?

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

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But the biggest difference is that there is already enough evidence present to prove that evolution did happen

Specifically, what form of evolution are you talking about? Surely not life from non-life. Changes within species? Ok.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[georgerussia 0]

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Specifically, what form of evolution are you talking about? Surely not life from non-life.

AFAIK the modern theory of evolution completely ignores the origin of life aspect, and just covers the development of species. And there is only one modern theory of evolution.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Mockingbird 0]

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If you have additional evidence, which is NOT based on beliefs - let me know, it will be the first time I'd hear it. Obviously the Bible is not an acceptable evidence.

Yes, there is additional evidence. I've referred to a book in the past that you might find interesting... that is, if you are interesED. It's a nice, little book (only 760 pages) called Evidence That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. Last I looked Amazon had it for about.. well here's the link: Evidence That Demands a Verdict There are other sources as well. Paj has some good ones worth your consideration.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

Why do they ignore the origin of life aspect?

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

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There is also evidence that the Bible itself contains a lot of contradictions, which should not be a case for any book inspired by any Higher Intellect.

Oh goody. If you dare to bring any of those up, I may have to give you a lesson on "how to read." George, here's a fun exercise-- why don't you find one, and I mean read the Bible yourself (don't cheat!), and see how long it takes you to discover a "contradiction."

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[georgerussia 0]

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OK, so Non-Christians, when they hear a statement of what a Christian believes can 1) not respond/ignore it, 2) ask "why?", 3) state their own beliefs, or 4) dis or make accusations.

My guess is that it heavily depends on HOW the Christian makes this statement. There is a difference between "you all go to hell because you do not believe in Jesus", "My belief is that everyone who does not believe in Jesus will go to hell" and "I believe in Jesus". While the last one most likely will have the reaction 1, 2 or 3, but previous can easily make 4th.

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Very few actually ask (with sincerity) Christians WHY they believe.

Most people just don't care. Some people - like me - know that their beliefs are groundless, but we don't say so until they start making statements affecting others in some way - like making anti-abortion or anti-gay.

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That they can't come up with a more thoughtful response is pretty sad. How do you have an interesting discussion with someone like that?

I have to say that very few believers are able to participate in an interesting discussion because of lack of necessary knowledge. For example, I've met a lot of people who called themselves Christians, but have never read the Bible themselves, and know only few parts of it. Most of them never read any analytical books like "The sceptic Bible", and didn't discuss it with their minister, making them unable to repel even the simplest contradictions shown. I'm getting an impression that a lot of people nowadays treat the religion like a TV remote: you read the instruction, press the buttons and TV shows what you want. And this is really funny.

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But I'm digressing. We were talking about who has the burden of proof; and I still say that whoever makes a claim has the burden of proof. When someone states his belief, he isn't making a claim. But responding with "The Christian god is just a myth" is making a claim, and that person has the burden of proof.

I would say that there is more universal rule - f someone introduces a new entity (God in this case), he/she has the burden of proof that the entity introduced does exist, or at least the introduction of this entity is necessary (that's Occam's razor). Therefore if you tell us you believe in God, and want to use this as argument in discussion, the burden of proof is on your side. However if you do not use it as argument, you can just reply "this is my belief, and there is no proof for the people who do not believe"

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Is it the Gospel that offends you? or that we believe and state something for which we haven't proof?

The main problem is that some of you want to change OUR lives according to YOUR beliefs. Nobody would have any problem with any religion if all of them kept it inside their churches.

For example, look on anti-abortion groups. If they just didn't have abortions themselves, it would be ok. But instead they are harrasing others, who do not support their beliefs, and that's why they offend me. In contrast, I am pro-abortion. But I am not preaching that everyone should have an abortion - I support the position that everyone should be free to make their own choice based on their knowledge, experience and circumstances.

That makes the difference.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Why do they ignore the origin of life aspect?

Because it is simpler to keep those theories separated - they have very little in common anyway.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Yes, there is additional evidence. I've referred to a book in the past that you might find interesting... that is, if you are interesED.

Reading its Table of Contents, I can see that this book is based on the Bible itself. Before discussing anything based on the Bible you'll have to prove that the Bible is appropriate evidence first - which is in my opinion impossible to prove, and is subject to beliefs.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Oh goody. If you dare to bring any of those up, I may have to give you a lesson on "how to read."

No problem. Here is the first, and the funniest one:

GE 11:26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
(so Abram was born when Terah was at least 70)

GE 11:32 And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years: and Terah died in Haran.
(so Terah was 205 years old when he died, making Abram 205-70 = at least 135 yo at the time).

GE 12:4 Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
(so Abram was 75 when he left Haran)
AC 7:4 Then came he (Abram) out of the land of the Chaldaeans
(so Abram left Harah when Terah died)

Conclusion: Abram left Haran after Terah died, and Terah was 205 yo when he died. So Abram must be 135 or more yo when he left Haran However according to GE 12:4 he was 75. Where is extra 60 years?

And the second one, just in case the first one is too simple:

GE 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The "lesser light" is Moon. But even the High School students know that Moon is not light, and does not emit light - just reflects the light from the Sun. Obviously the people who were writing the Bible in old ages did not know that, but the Almighty who created this planet, must know the difference between a light and a reflector, which is no way a light.

Also the explanation regarding "the stars also" would be useful; we now know that some those "stars" which we see are the same Suns, just further.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[jakee 1,259]

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Thanks, I don't need a fuller explanation. You answered my question. Evolutions does have as many questions as it has answers. There are lots of gaps in man's understanding of evolution. (I'm speaking of the type of evolution which really does occur, not the kind which says life came from non-life.)

I'm sorry but you clearly do need a much fuller explanation if you are going to make assertions on the subject.

The origins of life from non-life is called abiogenesis and is seperate from the theory of evolution. Evolution is the study of how living things evolve and how new species emerge. Evolution itself doesn't care how life originated, it explains what happens once life exists.

Also, evolution is a theory but it is also fact. It is fact that species evolve, the evidence is overwhelming that they do so. The theory part is our explanation of how it does so - the theory of evolution through random mutations and natural selection. While we have a pretty damn amazing understanding of how that works we don't yet know every little detail. What is incontrovertable though, is that evolution does happen.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 0]

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Evolutions does have as many questions as it has answers. There are lots of gaps in man's understanding of evolution.

Creationist claptrap. Arguing about whether the X of "questions" is greater or less than the Y of "answers" is misdirection. But more to the point, educated adults don't fill in gaps of knowledge with the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[badenhop 0]

I'd change the wording - there are still a lot of gaps in man's understanding of God.

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I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[badenhop 0]

The book of Thomas.

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I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[Remster 24]

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educated adults don't fill in gaps of knowledge with the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

How dare you insult my faith!

May gaggles of angry pirate loot your bootey.

Remster

[georgerussia 0]

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I'd change the wording - there are still a lot of gaps in man's understanding of God.

And here the word 'still' is wrong - there is just a lot of gaps in your understanding of God, and this is not going to change. So far for the last 2000 years the man's understanding of God hasn't been improved at all, as most religions are constantly changing their beliefs according to the science improverments. You don't tell us that the black death was the result of God's wrath, and only targeted non-believers. You don't tell us anything regarding the Sun turning around the Earth, or the Earth being flat. Still every question about your God hasn't been answered since two thousand years passed.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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The book of Thomas.

Will you believe in The book of GeorgeRussia if I claim that it was inspired by God?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[badenhop 0]

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understanding of God

You really should not comment on my understanding of God.
You already wrote you do not understand it.
Your lack of understanding is acknowledged.
Science improvements, the black death or the Earth being flat, all have little to do with my understanding of God.

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I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[billvon 2,435]

>There are lots of gaps in man's understanding of evolution.

Right, as there are gaps in man's understanding of gravity. We would be fools to not accept it as part of our reality, though, whether jumping out of trees, skydiving, or sending probes to Pluto.