Do u beleave in God

[jakee 1,280]

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Some would dispute even Intelligent Design, but whatever happened to that 3rd Law of Thermodynamics, you know, the one of all systems tending to entropy?

I think it became the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Why do you mention it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[shortyj 0]

Get ready

Playtime is essential.

[beowulf 1]

Christians have been wait a long time and they still think it's going to happen any minute. If they have been wrong for a thousand years what makes you think it will happen soon?

[steveorino 7]

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What is available?
If you start with a theory and try to find the evidence your search is already flawed. Start with evidence and then form a theory.

My evidence will not likely persuade you. I don’t believe that is my job. I can share with you my story, but the persuasion part lies in bigger hands. I was born into a Christian home and raised by Christian parents and developed a similar world-view. As I grew older I challenged most of what I grew up believing. I was searching for some sort of proof. I’m very much NOT the scientific person, so I was not seeking that angle. I was seeking more of a confirmation in my spirit. My idea that I have a spirit may have been developed by my upbringing, but it is as real as it can possibly be to me.

Part of my journey included the time I was in the service. In 1977 I left my father and my wife in two separate hospitals to go to Airborne school. I never felt so alone in my life. I checked into a Motel 6 outside Benning about 2 AM. Searching for answers I looked into a Gideon's bible in the night stand. It said if you feel lonely, read this: Hebrews 3:13. God has said, "Never will I leave you or forsake you."

I prayed to God, "If you are real, please let me know.” I didn't have a vision or anything, but I began to sense a presence and comfort that I could not explain. A few weeks later my wife and father (and mom) drove to Benning to watch me graduate. Some will say, no biggee. However, to me it was the first step on a journey that became more real than life itself. Later my wife accidentally drove over my 18 month old son Drew, and I was told he was killed. I was in a panic, but God assured me he was not forsaking me. Drew turned out fine. No injuries whatsoever, not even a bruise, just a sleeper with tire tracks over it. A few years later I buried my mom & dad in '83 & '85.That same comfort was felt as I watched their coffins descend into the grave. I have 100s of such stories in my life.

Right now I lean heavily on God as my son-in-law just return from Irag (3rd tour overseas) and that little baby Drew is now a 23 year old soldier in Afghanistan. The experience I have is one of 'presence' 'comfort' "joy" and 'peace', among other things. It has convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I studied theology twice (Bachelors & Masters degree) and I believe I have a good understanding of apologetics. But so many of the times in SC, what I say in the effort to “prove” God ends up in being twisted around so I prefer to give my personal testimony not as evidence as why you should believe, but why I believe. If you’d seriously like to check out some highly educated Christian apologetics, may I suggest Ravi Zacharias. His work can be found on www.rzim.org

steveOrino

[rehmwa 2]

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well crwtom you just replied to something I said and all you've seen is my picture

from your avatar, you don't look even CLOSE to a couple thousand years old

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[inzite 0]

I am GOD!!!



In all seriousness though, I see no evidence for God and stopped believing in any kind of actively-involved deity a decade ago. If I were to be spiritual, deism (especially the Prime Observer theory) is attractive, but I personally don't subscribe. To me, the world is all cause, effect, and probability.

[shortyj 0]

We have been waiting along time in our eyes but it's all in Gods timing certain things have to occur before Jesus comes back. No one knows the hour. I don't know if it'll happen in my lifetime, but I do know this without a shadow of a doubt it Will happen. As each day passes we are getting closer I mean that's just common sense.

Playtime is essential.

[jm951 0]

+1 for Ravi

I also like to hear this guy speak-

http://www.walkintheword.com/

[jakee 1,280]

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We have been waiting along time in our eyes but it's all in Gods timing certain things have to occur before Jesus comes back. No one knows the hour. I don't know if it'll happen in my lifetime, but I do know this without a shadow of a doubt it Will happen. As each day passes we are getting closer I mean that's just common sense.

This must be some new definition of "sense" that I am unaware of.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,280]

I'm still wondering what the 3rd 2nd law of thermo has to do with any of this?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pajarito 0]

Ravi Zacharias is really good.

I also really like John MacArthur.

Here is a good sermon by him titled The Doctrine of Inspiration Explained.

[jm951 0]

2nd law- my arthritic bad on the keys-

If systems tend towards entropy, or a steady state, how could the universe have developed as some would postulate without ID or a creator? Where did it come from in the first place, how did it develop to this point (higher and higher life forms)? Are you willing to blindly believe that it all just "happened"?

[pajarito 0]

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Are you willing to blindly believe that it all just "happened"?

Absolutely not.

[jakee 1,280]

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how did it develop to this point (higher and higher life forms)

What has the 2nd law of thermo got to do with life forms evolving?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jm951 0]

If things are tending to steady state, why should "higher" forms of life evolve from lower ones?

[pajarito 0]

Who can give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen (observable/demonstratable) to increase the information in the genome? If not, then there is no mechanism for the large-scale evolutionary processes required in New Darwinian Theory. Natural Selection is observable but it can only eliminate information. It cannot be used to explain anything other than variation within species (e.g. different sequencing of a limited set of information).

[beowulf 1]

your "evidence" is so subjective and arbitrary that I can't place any value on it at all. I don't understand how you can believe it.



If you look hard enough you will always find what you are looking for, whether it is actually there or not.

[bigtexan 0]

I don't think you will be going anywhere sept where you came from. Say, what do you remember about where you came from; or are your first memories those of childhood?

That blackness before your first memory - that will be there waiting for you when you leave this world, just like it was there before you came into this world.

Your beleife in the releigion you are involved with is a product of your environment and nothing more - had you grown up else where - your may have a completely different releigion. Which one is right, they cannot all be that is for sure; so which one is it.

Are you going to be so bold as to say yours is right and send the majority of the world to your place called hell. To me that makes you quite upleasant if you beleive anyone whom does not beleive as you do will burn for ever in hell. What a way to live your life.

It's sorta funny you know. Say you and your family go to heaven, and me and mine go to hell. I cannot help but see a place not unlike the roman arena where all sorts of hell was wraught. There in the arena are the non beleivers (for your releigion that is) and in the audiance is the beleivers (the rightous sp?) all cheering - turn up the fire - woohoo, turn up the flames, damn, did you see the skin burn off that child, his poor daddy tried to hold him - rip him apart and burn him again.. whoohooo....

guess yall will be doing this for all eternity - seems to me yall should be going to hell for thinking this way.

now - the argument that you will not be aware of this as it is going on is just bogus as it was the motivator for you to place your beliefs in this releigion in the first place .. you don't want to be in the arena, you want to be in the audiance. Who wouldn't - but still - the whole idea is just crap.

Blackness - that is what awaits you when you die - just don't kill my family because I don't beleive like yours.

loves -

[d_goldsmith 1]

Wow there is a lot of christianity preaching in this thread. I thought it was do you believe in god, not to you believe Jesus was gods son.

For everyone that said how can you believe that everything just started from nowhere, my thought is that the human mind (for some reason) has to have a begining and an end to really contimplate something. I think that it is possible that a beggining is something that exists only within biological things. Mass doesn't have an end does it? As far as we know. It just changes from one form to another. So why did there have to be a beggining. Because our brains can't comtimplate otherwise.

Here's a good one for you.
If god is all powerful, can he build a rock so big that even he can't lift it.

I've got this really hardcore group of gaurdian angels that need a free paid vacation.
~Dan Osman

[beowulf 1]

God's were created by men out of fear of the unknown. Not knowing where we came from. Not knowing where we are going. Not knowing why we are here. This fear caused men to look for answers. The easiest answer is God did it. I think the real answer is just that there is no answer. Not all questions have an answer.

[JackC 0]

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Who can give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen (observable/demonstratable) to increase the information in the genome? If not, then there is no mechanism for the large-scale evolutionary processes required in New Darwinian Theory. Natural Selection is observable but it can only eliminate information. It cannot be used to explain anything other than variation within species (e.g. different sequencing of a limited set of information).

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1252063,00.html

[rehmwa 2]

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God's were created by men out of fear of the unknown. Not knowing where we came from. Not knowing where we are going. Not knowing why we are here. This fear caused men to look for answers. The easiest answer is God did it. I think the real answer is just that there is no answer. Not all questions have an answer.

that's pretty much my belief (though I don't think it was the 'easiest' answer, but one that was most beneficial to society - it's not easy at all), but I think it serves a useful purpose in society.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[gontleman 0]

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It's sorta funny you know. Say you and your family go to heaven, and me and mine go to hell. I cannot help but see a place not unlike the roman arena where all sorts of hell was wraught. There in the arena are the non beleivers (for your releigion that is) and in the audiance is the beleivers (the rightous sp?) all cheering - turn up the fire - woohoo, turn up the flames, damn, did you see the skin burn off that child, his poor daddy tried to hold him - rip him apart and burn him again.. whoohooo....

That's pretty demented, but as far as Christianity goes, it's not correct.

However, everything I was taught related to heaven is no less depressing. Heaven (and hell even) serve to negate nearly everything about your life on earth. Your experiences, emotions, thoughts, all of that and more, serve no purpose.*(don't worry Christians, I'll put the words in your mouth about this in a moment) All the pain, pleasure, sadness, and joy... everything here... is just a pretext, if not meaningless drivel, to something that is completely seperated in all ways from your life. Nothing that you go through in this life will prepare or make better your experience in the supposed afterlife, REGARDLESS of where the Christians, or any other religious sect for that matter, believe you will end up.

Of course if you're a Christian, you believe that your only purpose should be that of the Christian god's. And essentially his purpose for you is accept salvation so that you can be with him and worship him for all eternity. (Gods sure do love that eternal worship) God doesn't want you to go to hell, but if you do not make the correctchoice (which you are coincidentally forced to make without being provided any evidence that can be observed outside of yourself that can logically [that is to say, without need for faith to fill in the gaps *(stand by for more on this)] lead any human being to end up with an undeniable, factual, and rational assumption that he does exist) then you are eternally damned for this ultimately (in at least 2 senses of the word) consequential mistake brought forth from your, ironically, inconsequential life.

And as far as my comment about faith goes... the necessity of faith according to the Christian doctrine validates the beliefs of those who follow it, and simultaneously provides one of the strongest flavors of ammunition for those who seek to argue against it. To accept the free gift of salvation requires you to have faith in these core beliefs (emphasis on the 2nd one ):

- Faith that the Christian god exists
- Faith that Jesus' death forgives the sins of those to have said faith or belief
- Faith that the Bible, in it's expression of the requirements for salvation, is not fallible.

The American Heritage Dictionary defines the word "faith" as follows:

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.

Those are all pretty spot on definitions that I feel the Christians among us will find acceptable. But lets focus on definition number two. Faith is belief that does not depend on logical proof or material evidence. What this means, in other words, is that Christian's do not need logical or material (that is to say pertaining to the physical rather than the spiritual or intellectual aspect of things) evidence to believe what they do. In fact, if such proof or evidence existed (that is to say that it was observable and comprehensible by all human beings) it would entirely negate the need for faith at all. It is important that such proof or evidence validates ALL of the core beliefs (mentioned above) that the Christian doctrine holds. As such, if said proof/evidence existed, one's belief in God wouldn't be based on a love for God (this is important) but instead the proof or evidence. And God requires that you do more than just acknowledge he exists, but you are called to cleave to him, love him, seek to please him with your mind, heart, and soul. And that's biblical folks.

What I argue is that God does not provide proof for his existence because by doing so, to believe requires faith, and faith is proof/evidence of love for God. And that is what God wants from you instead of just believing. If you love God you will seek to please him and he will be pleased. As such, I believe that logically, proof for God does not exist. This logical statement validates my above statement that we, as humans, are not given proof to base our choice of whether to believe or not. We are required to make decision based on what boils down to heresay between OTHER humans. Hell, the bible was written by humans if not merely penned. So given that we, as humans, are logical (that is to say capable of reasoning based on what we observe) creatures who can't even make the right decisions about things which are easily proven and observable, why in the blue fuck should we be held accountable for consequences of such an absurd decision?

In short , I do not believe in God, because to do so, would require me to believe in a being which is supposedly infinite in power, mercy, grace, and understanding, yet is not capable of forgiving the simplest sin of a human (which is a logical being that can only rationally make decisions about things which are observable to all of humanity by their 5 senses) created in such a way, and placed in such an evironment, that it is impossible to make the a rational decision to believe in something which, evidently, does not exist. The infinite God fails to save the eternal spirit of a fallible human who made the wrong decision when they were not presented all the evidence their nature deemed necessary to logically affirm one way or the other.

It's all bullshit.

[billvon 2,476]

>Who can give an example of a genetic mutation or an
>evolutionary process which can be seen (observable/demonstratable)
>to increase the information in the genome?

One that merely increases the amount of information in the genome? Trisomy-21. Increases the amount of genetic code in the human genome by approximately 2%.

Better yet, algae Some species of algae cycle between haploid and diploid. When it is in its diploid phase, it suddenly acquires twice the genetic material it had before.

Wheat has SIX sets of chromosomes - two from each of three plants that were cross-bred to produce what we now know as wheat. Cross-breeding, of course, is merely an intensive attempt by humans to duplicate what happens in nature (crossbreeding is pretty common.)

>Natural Selection is observable but it can only eliminate information.

Untrue; see above for examples of natural additions of information to the genome. Adding sequences to a genome is the easy part. Adding _useful_ sequences is the hard part, and is why dramatic changes in phenotype are rare. Most evolutionary change happens very, very slowly by modifying existing structures a bit at a time.

[wmw999 2,176]

We only think we're the be-all and end-all because we'd be pretty pissed off to find out that things can evolve/devolve/change from here.

We are no more immutable than the newts. Neither are we the apex of possible life. Think about it -- how many people here think that people are as well designed as possible? Now -- how many have knee trouble or bad backs from walking on concrete instead of dirt?

I believe in God, but not the God of details. And I have trouble with the God who says that this life doesn't matter. Seems weird to me. But the God who says that love is the most important, the one who says that trying to see your reflection in others, and admiring their beauty -- that's the view I see.

Maybe there aren't many Gods. But maybe, just maybe, he's complex enough that like the elephant to the blind men, we can't see all of him.

Belief in God is a choice; that's why it's called faith, and not proof.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)