"Suffolk Ripper"

[CornishChris 5]

Yesterday 2 more womens' bodies were found in woods near Ipswich in Suffolk in the UK. That makes 5 found in 10 days which has to be the worst serial killer activity in the UK since Peter Sutcliffe - The Yorkshire Ripper (and correct me if I'm wrong) - and even his murders were over a five year period instead of a matter of days.

This is a pretty unusual event to happen in rainy ol' England.

One subject of debate here is the describing of the women in the media as 'prostitutes', which they all were. Apparently this is an offensive term and, according to some women on Radio 4 this morning, they should all be described as 'Workers in the Sex industry' or 'Sex Workers' so not to offend their families. Whilst I have every sympathy for the families the women were prostititutes so I think they should be called that - however headlines should read - "5 women murdered" not "5 Prostitutes murdered" as they were women first.

Anyway just thought I would open this one up to debate. Do people think there will be more of these? What is the mentality behind it? How long will it be before 'The Sun' offers a reward prompting loads of pointless leads and wasting police time?

RIP those poor women and thoughts to their families.

Some news reports:

The Telegraph

The Sun

BBC

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[Tonto 1]

Terms change.

Prostitute is fine in the 1800's, but it's simply not acceptable anymore.

If you do some research on trafficing, you'll know that upwards of 40% of sex workers world wide are there through no fault of their own, usually following either the "work abroad" or the "Mail order bride" route to get away from their own personal geographical hell.

As long as men are prepared to pay for sex, there will be other men who will make certain there are women to meet that need, whether they like it or not.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[CornishChris 5]

I fully appreciate that there are huge numbers of women being exploited in the sex industry. There always have been and always will be. I also understand that most of these girls didn't sit in school thinking "I want to be a hooker when I grow up!"

The term prostitute is still used in English law, although there is a move to remove it, and is currently commonly used in this country. We aren't talking about women in a brothel but 'street brass' - girls walking the streets - generally as they need the money for drugs. I am still happy for the term prostitue to be used but, as I said in my first post, I firmly believe that that is just a job description and not what these girls are and that that should be clear in the media. They have families and loved ones and should be treated with more respect.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[dorbie 0]

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Terms change.

Prostitute is fine in the 1800's, but it's simply not acceptable anymore.

If you do some research on trafficing, you'll know that upwards of 40% of sex workers world wide are there through no fault of their own, usually following either the "work abroad" or the "Mail order bride" route to get away from their own personal geographical hell.

As long as men are prepared to pay for sex, there will be other men who will make certain there are women to meet that need, whether they like it or not.

t

Many women meet this need through choice. They're not content to work at their skill level at Tescos for example, not enough cash for their lifestyle of choice so they use their other 'talents'.

What you're describing is servitude & rape, but most of the slappers in the UK are there through choice, bad choices for sure but choice, there are all sorts of choices in life, those that land you in jail or build a great career or have you tunring tricks on some seedy street.

You don't get to define my vocabulary thanks, prostitute did not fall out of fashion after the 1800 pretending that this is some archaic term is promulgating a lie to enforce more PC bullshit. They're prostitutes, or whores and you prefer that term and if there's stigma associated with this activity then maybe it'll dissuade a few more women from turning tricks for drugs, alcohol, rent or whatever.

The terms ain't politically correct but there's nothing politically correct about being a whore, and I should damn well hope there's a stigma about being a whore. If they want self-esteem & respect then they can choose a different path.

[StreetScooby 5]

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One subject of debate here is the describing of the women in the media as 'prostitutes', which they all were. Apparently this is an offensive term and, according to some women on Radio 4 this morning, they should all be described as 'Workers in the Sex industry' or 'Sex Workers' so not to offend their families.

Why bother to go into that detail in a public forum? So some rag newspaper can sell more copies? Certain things are best left between adults behind closed doors. Why are our societies forgetting this?

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however headlines should read - "5 women murdered" not "5 Prostitutes murdered" as they were women first.

Agreed. That's a much better way to phrase it.

We are all engines of karma

[Erroll 49]

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One subject of debate here is the describing of the women in the media as 'prostitutes', which they all were.

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Why bother to go into that detail in a public forum?

I think that in today's ridiculous PC environment that that is a perfectly valid question for debate.
Before long we will be referring to grave diggers as 'permanent internment technicians' just so that we don't offend their families.

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Certain things are best left between adults behind closed doors

We agree on that, although I don't understand the relevance.

[StreetScooby 5]

I was referring to using the phrase "Sex Workers" on public radio (...that being the forum I was referring to). Young children should not be needlessly exposed to all aspects of this life. That was my point. I see now that I could have communicated that better.

We are all engines of karma

[Erroll 49]

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I was referring to using the phrase "Sex Workers" on public radio (...that being the forum I was referring to). Young children should not be needlessly exposed to all aspects of this life. That was my point. I see now that I could have communicated that better.

Fair enough. I guess that referring to a public forum on a public forum could be confusing to the public in the forum.

[Skyrad 0]

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Prostitute is fine in the 1800's, but it's simply not acceptable anymore.

I think this is clearly a cultral diference. Like its acceptable and the norm in the UK to refere to black people but not in the USA. In SA it maybe unacceptable but in the UK its still the norm and is the term that female sex workers use to define their role. As in the Collective of British Prostitutes (a organisation set up by and for prostitutes)

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

I agree, would their work be used to define them as people if they were traffic wardens? yes but not as much as the media is doing. I feel that they are being degraded in importance as people because of how they made their money by the media.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[dorbie 0]

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however headlines should read - "5 women murdered" not "5 Prostitutes murdered" as they were women first.

Agreed. That's a much better way to phrase it.

Only if you want to leave your readers completey ignorant of what's actually going on. Half of the motivation here is protecting the victims families from the uncomfortable truth that their relative was a prostitute, a fact they're mosty aware of, they just don't want it mentioned in public at a tragic time, but there is a greater public interest, not only to protect other prostitutes from the same fate but to protect women who are not prostitutes from unnecessary fear.

This is about the truth vs. censorship not about selling copies, this story sells itself, heck it'd be a bigger story if the victims weren't prostitutes because everyone would be running around scared and reading all they could on it.

[StreetScooby 5]

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This is about the truth vs. censorship not about selling copies, this story sells itself, heck it'd be a bigger story if the victims weren't prostitutes because everyone would be running around scared and reading all they could on it.

Would you want your 8 year old daughter to walk by a newstand with a rag blaring "SEX WORKERS KILLED"? That could easily be contained in the fine print of an article with a more appropriate title, as discussed above.

We are all engines of karma

[warpedskydiver 0]

I say they should put a few lures out there, get a team into a hide, and shoot when the target is identified.

I bet the murders would stop.

Oh that's right, the murderer has rights...

Maybe the women laughed at his immasculated genitalia

[BannanaGirl 0]

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Many women meet this need through choice. They're not content to work at their skill level at Tescos for example, not enough cash for their lifestyle of choice so they use their other 'talents'.

Nobody in their right mind does street walking for money and having sex with a stranger when they have a choice. It is easy to say that somebody has control over their situation but until you have been in the grip of drug addiction nobody can judge somebody or the circumstances that led them there. Ok there maybe are some addicts that do not deserve sympathy but I choose always to view the bigger picture and why people get to where they are. Presented with the same set of circumstances who could be 100% certain it would not be them in that place?

I know you will say "well why take drugs in the first place", but it is never as simple as that. Depression, grief, lonliness, peer pressure, mental health (self medicating) even can cause someone to take drugs and then progress onto more heavier ones and then get addicted. Because these women have lost all self respect for their bodies already why not go the extra mile and sell it even if it is for a 10 bag of smack.

Most of these poor women are depserate and do not have the adequate support they need to get clean (An ex worked as a support worker for women like this and he said what a shit state of affairs it was and he was often angry at how they were let down), hence they are vunerable to some sick psycho like this.

Not forgetting as well women who are hopelessly in debt. A lot of young women/students (some with degrees) turn to escorting/dancing to pay off student loans/credit cards. They get given credit beyond their control by a system that really should be burnt at the stake and then they have to suffer the consequences. A lot of pretty young women decide that it is the only way to solve the issue and that is to sell themselves. Maybe socially they are deemed not as bad as a street walker but they are still desperate enough in their situation to have sex with a complete stranger and for money. Subsequently they may become addicted to cocaine or whatever as these women suffer to handle the reality of what it is they are doing to themselves. The vicious circle then becomes that they are then working to feed the habit they cannot get out of.

My point I am trying to make is the image of a down and out is wrong, well at the start anyway. A mix of situations and circumstances will lead a woman (or man even) to sell themselves.

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What you're describing is servitude & rape, but most of the slappers in the UK are there through choice, bad choices for sure but choice, there are all sorts of choices in life, those that land you in jail or build a great career or have you tunring tricks on some seedy street.

Turning tricks on a seedy street can land you in jail or at least with a serious criminal record. This pushes these women to take more unsafe risks than needs be and their punters who can be married men with strong reputations to protect will not put themselves in positions where they could get caught easily.

What the police can do for these women in every city is to provide them with a safe zone if at all possible where the clients (who will not be prosecuted) can pick up the women and say they are observed via CCTV (I hear tax payers having an epi now). At the end of the day these women are going to do it. They are utterly desperate. We as humans should try and stop anything happening like this to anyone no matter how down the "social" ladder we think they are.

This may not stop some women still taking very serious risks by going with the punters who will not pick up in a safe zone but it would protect at least a number of working girls.

The other side is that all the grade A social twats that live in their 5 bedroom detached houses would never allow such a safe zone to exist even if it is 5 miles away from their front door. Another argument altogether.

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The terms ain't politically correct but there's nothing politically correct about being a whore, and I should damn well hope there's a stigma about being a whore. If they want self-esteem & respect then they can choose a different path.

No it is a horrid occupation with a huge stigma attached to it. It is not one I would want for my daughter lets say. However like it has been said supply and demand generates the industry. People need to have sex, and how they want it. They always will.

Most of those women would give their right arm to be taken back into soceity again, away from their drug dealer partners or pimps, often they have physical violence inflicted on them, this is not a myth it is true. Most of those womens families may have turned their backs on them - understandable (regardless what is said in the press and how it has all been portrayed). At the beginning their lust for Heroin/crack etc maybe such that they don't give a shit (what are they blanking?) but by the time they are in full swing of dependancy they are basically taking it to survive or what they think is surving. Hence the cycle turns them to turning tricks on a seedy street where they could get raped up the arse with no condom, cut up badly, gang raped...all sorts of sadistic shit we never hear about in the news......until now. I would not call that choice.

This bastard that is doing this could have a nice 2.4 children scenario going on at home. Socially fits in, maybe somebody we would have a beer with when ironically we would not with any other the women he has just chopped. This is why he will probably and sadly get more girls in the up and coming weeks/months even years. He may have kinky tastes his missus will not do or even contemplate doing, maybe it is a game that went to far on the first one and now he has got a taste for a corpse now. He maybe angry at abuse he has suffered, who knows. All that can be done to stop him is to make sure the prostitues that are left (and yes they are prostitutes or hookers if you like, even working girls works for me.) are protected and not let down any further by a system that should be there to protect them - as well.

Maybe I am too sympathetic but these women are not slappers. They are people. People with serious fucked up situations to deal with. I am glad I am not one fo them. Maybe in another life if I am unlucky though.

[jakee 1,260]

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I say they should put a few lures out there, get a team into a hide, and shoot when the target is identified.

A nice idea, but how would you know who was a regular punter and who was a murderer before the 'lure' got into the car and drove off? If only real life was as simple as a GI Joe fantasy

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Butters 0]

Prostitute: To offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money.

It is what it is.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[SpeedRacer 1]

I don't see why "sex worker" sounds better than "prostitute," but what do I know.

Speed Racer
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[Lindsey 0]

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I don't see why "sex worker" sounds better than "prostitute," but what do I know.

One of my attendings called me a prostitute the other day because I've been moonlighting a lot lately. No time for nookie! Prostitute sounds better than "sex worker," imho...lol.

Really, though, I think it's silly to legitimize what prostitutes do by calling them "sex workers." It's not a business I'd want to encourage others to enter, so why be all PC about it? I'm just not seeing it.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Scoop 0]

Yeah, whatever happened to calling a shit a shit

As for... PLEASE WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Behave!

So it looks like 5 whores dead. Its a risky business eh, wonder how they'll get their heroin money now as the rest of the 'working' girls presumably keeping their heads down at the moment

[StreetScooby 5]

Interesting reply. Thanks for posting it.

We are all engines of karma

[orribolollie 0]

Women (and at 19 girls) first not prostitutes.

I agree with street scooby. The reports should read five women killed. The small print can contain the fact that all the victims may be prostitutes.

The sex worker versus prostitute arguement is irrelevant.

This is another sad case of the failings of making prostitution illegal. If these girls had worked in legal brothels they not be dead now. Working alone in dark unsupervised places has gotten these girls killed.

Evidence is hard to come by because naturally the other girls in the area dont want to be connecting themself to the police - their trade is illegal after all.

Further to this I hate the way the perpetrator of these crimes is bigged up with names like 'suffolk strangler'.

That kind of makes him sound hard or something.

What they should call him is:
'the sexually impotent suffolk small dick who probably got bullied at school and cant even get a hard on so he kills prostitutes without even sexually assaulting them'

Much more fitting for such a despicable low life.

[CornishChris 5]

Bravo on all points.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[dorbie 0]

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Nobody in their right mind does street walking for money and having sex with a stranger when they have a choice.

Bollocks, many have a choice, they just don't like the alternatives.

Your argument makes about as much sense as saying nobody in their right mind would pay some stranger for sex especially when they've been with with thousands of partners, but apparently there's a roaring trade.

[dorbie 0]

Well said.

[orribolollie 0]

Your argument makes about as much sense as saying nobody in their right mind would pay some stranger for sex especially when they've been with with thousands of partners, but apparently there's a roaring trade.

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Your analogy makes no sense, please clarify.

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