Six Muslim Clerics Removed from USAir Flight for Praying

[NCclimber 0]

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I am wondering if we will see this tonight on any of the US media outlets??

Doubt it. Doesn't fit thier world view template. Maybe they got exaxtly what they had coming or

what they were after. After all, the drive by media gives them aid and comfort

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20061128-122902-7522r.htm

A lot of "anonymous" comments there, and mostly just garbage.

If only we'd been this dismissive of Woodward and Bernstein.

[mnealtx 0]

From the (not approved by liberals) Washington Times - who wants to make odds on this not getting picked up by the "mainstream" media, either?

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Passengers and flight attendants told law-enforcement officials the imams switched from their assigned seats to a pattern associated with the September 11 terrorist attacks and also found in probes of U.S. security since the attacks -- two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear of the cabin.
"That would alarm me," said a federal air marshal who asked to remain anonymous. "They now control all of the entry and exit routes to the plane."
A pilot from another airline said: "That behavior has been identified as a terrorist probe in the airline industry."

and

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According to witnesses, police reports and aviation security officials, the imams displayed other suspicious behavior.
Three of the men asked for seat-belt extenders, although two flight attendants told police the men were not oversized. One flight attendant told police she "found this unsettling, as crew knew about the six [passengers] on board and where they were sitting." Rather than attach the extensions, the men placed the straps and buckles on the cabin floor, the flight attendant said.
The imams said they were not discussing politics and only spoke in English, but witnesses told law enforcement that the men spoke in Arabic and English, criticizing the war in Iraq and President Bush, and talking about al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.
The imams who claimed two first-class seats said their tickets were upgraded. The gate agent told police that when the imams asked to be upgraded, they were told no such seats were available. Nevertheless, the two men were seated in first class when removed.
A flight attendant said one of the men made two trips to the rear of the plane to talk to the imam during boarding, and again when the flight was delayed because of their behavior. Aviation officials, including air marshals and pilots, said these actions alone would not warrant a second look, but the combination is suspicious.
"That's like shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater. You just can't do that anymore," said Robert MacLean, a former air marshal.
"They should have been denied boarding and been investigated," Mr. MacLean said. "It looks like they are trying to create public sympathy or maybe setting someone up for a lawsuit."
The pilot with another airline who talked to The Washington Times on condition of anonymity, said he would have made the same call as the US Airways pilot.
"If any group of passengers is commingling in the terminal and didn't sit in their assigned seats or with each other, I would stop everything and investigate until they could provide me with a reason they did not sit in their assigned seats."

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[GQ_jumper 4]

I didn't have time to read through all the posts in this thread so this may have been covered already but I just wanted to throw my two cents in there.

Yes people in the US do need to stop bein such scared little babies every once in a while, not everyone who is an Arab is a terrorist. We could do more to be a little more understanding while still maintaining our alert posture.

But at the same time Arabs need to realize that there are fears in this country because of what happened on 9-11 on need to make a little bit more effort to understand those fears and not act in a manner which would raise eyebrows.

Both sides need to pull their head out of their ass IMO

And I wasn't replyin to one of your posts specifically Bill, just hittin reply on the last one I had read

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[rushmc 18]

Funny how silent this thread has become since the non anti US side of the story (not the drive by media hype) is starting to come out

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,679]

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Funny how silent this thread has become since the non anti US side of the story (not the drive by media hype) is starting to come out

Could be that we just think GQ_Jumper summed it all up rather nicely.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

Heck I thought it was a purty good post too

[NCclimber 0]

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Yes people in the US do need to stop bein such scared little babies every once in a while, not everyone who is an Arab is a terrorist. We could do more to be a little more understanding while still maintaining our alert posture.

People didn't get upset because the men were Arabs, but because the men acted in specific ways that played to peoples fears.

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But at the same time Arabs need to realize that there are fears in this country because of what happened on 9-11 on need to make a little bit more effort to understand those fears and not act in a manner which would raise eyebrows.

From what I've read, these men men acted in specific ways that played to peoples fears... both in their words and actions before boarding and their actions once on the plane.

This was clearly something more than six men praying.

[Andy9o8 0]

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This was clearly something more than six men praying.

There's nothing clear about it at all. The facts on this particular point are very much in dispute.

[rushmc 18]

Getting anything from the big drive by media is suspect today.

16 storys that the AP and other big media sources used over thanks giving, (Stating they got the info from reliable souces) are now starting to admit that those very "sources" DO NOT EVEN EXIST!!!!

Al queada has stated they will beat us by using our own media.

Looks like it is working.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,471]

>This was clearly something more than six men praying.

Of course - it was six arab men praying. This would not have occurred had the six men been catholic priests; that's the major differentiator.

That being said, their initial refusal to get off the plane was wrong, and they should have known better than to argue the point.

[Amazon 7]

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Al queada has stated they will beat us by using our own media.

OMG now you are admitting that Micheal Savage and Lush Rimjob... are friends of Al Queada.... what is the world coming too

[NCclimber 0]

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>This was clearly something more than six men praying.

Of course - it was six arab men praying. This would not have occurred had the six men been catholic priests; that's the major differentiator.

The major "differentiator" was that, in addition to merely praying, they did it in a loud manner (which would obviously attract attention) and voiced anti-American sentiments, they disregarded their seat assignments, instead choosing seats similar to 9/11 hijackers, which would make controlling a plane easier and asked for an un-needed seatbelt extension.

Nothing suspicious here, folks. Move along.

I find it hard to believe so many people think the behavior of those men wouldn't (justifiably) cause major concerns from passengers and flight personel.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I find it hard to believe so many people think the behavior of those men wouldn't (justifiably) cause major concerns from passengers and flight personel.

New here aren't you?

[billvon 2,471]

>The major "differentiator" was that, in addition to merely praying,
> they did it in a loud manner (which would obviously attract attention)
> and voiced anti-American sentiments, they disregarded their seat
> assignments, instead choosing seats similar to 9/11 hijackers, which
> would make controlling a plane easier and asked for an un-needed
> seatbelt extension.

Again, if six catholic priests:

1) prayed loudly in the terminal, clutching their rosaries,
2) didn't like their seats and moved about the plane,
3) asked for a seatbelt extension, and
4) complained about the US's anti-christian tendencies

they would not have been arrested. (At most someone would have said "pipe down, father!") If you think they would have been, you're not living in the same world these imams are.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>The major "differentiator" was that, in addition to merely praying,
> they did it in a loud manner (which would obviously attract attention)
> and voiced anti-American sentiments, they disregarded their seat
> assignments, instead choosing seats similar to 9/11 hijackers, which
> would make controlling a plane easier and asked for an un-needed
> seatbelt extension.

Again, if six catholic priests:

1) prayed loudly in the terminal, clutching their rosaries,
2) didn't like their seats and moved about the plane,
3) asked for a seatbelt extension, and
4) complained about the US's anti-christian tendencies

they would not have been arrested. (At most someone would have said "pipe down, father!") If you think they would have been, you're not living in the same world these imams are.

If 19 Catholics had hi-jacked planes and flown them into buildings killing over 3000 people in the name of Jesus Christ, I'd be willing to bet that later if 6 Catholic Preists were praying in an airport terminal praising Jesus Christ, they might have received the same treatment as these 6 Imams got.

[NCclimber 0]

Bill,

Based on what you've read about this incidendent, do you think the passengers and flight crew were completely unjustified about being alarmed by the behavior of these six men?

[SkyDekker 1,152]

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If 19 Catholics had hi-jacked planes and flown them into buildings killing over 3000 people in the name of Jesus Christ, I'd be willing to bet that later if 6 Catholic Preists were praying in an airport terminal praising Jesus Christ, they might have received the same treatment as these 6 Imams got.

Why do people keep refering back to 9/11, yet have no problem with their country more or less giving up on bringing those responsible to justice?

Why isn't their a mass outpouring of anger that the mission in Afghanistan is more or less abandoned by the US, or at least put well down the list of priorities?

Are many Americans really that dumb that they think Iraq had so much more to do with 9/11 that it was a more important war to fight than Afghanistan?

Personally, I don't think America as a nation has much right left to keep using 9/11. How can you keep bringing it up as a justification when the actions of the country to bring those responsible to justice have been on a continuous decline?

[Andy9o8 0]

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If 19 Catholics had hi-jacked planes and flown them into buildings killing over 3000 people in the name of Jesus Christ, I'd be willing to bet that later if 6 Catholic Preists were praying in an airport terminal praising Jesus Christ, they might have received the same treatment as these 6 Imams got.

By that logic, any Catholic priest (especially one with a brogue) caught praying at Heathrow airport in the 1970s would have been spirited off to the Tower of London. (Or wherever the hell they stretch people on the rack in the UK)

[billvon 2,471]

>If 19 Catholics had hi-jacked planes and flown them into buildings
> killing over 3000 people in the name of Jesus Christ, I'd be willing
> to bet that later if 6 Catholic Preists were praying in an airport
> terminal praising Jesus Christ, they might have received the same
> treatment as these 6 Imams got.

If you added "and most people in the US were Muslim" I'd agree; the situations would then be reversed. Doesn't make it right.

[Darius11 12]

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>The major "differentiator" was that, in addition to merely praying,
> they did it in a loud manner (which would obviously attract attention)
> and voiced anti-American sentiments, they disregarded their seat
> assignments, instead choosing seats similar to 9/11 hijackers, which
> would make controlling a plane easier and asked for an un-needed
> seatbelt extension.

Again, if six catholic priests:

1) prayed loudly in the terminal, clutching their rosaries,
2) didn't like their seats and moved about the plane,
3) asked for a seatbelt extension, and
4) complained about the US's anti-christian tendencies

they would not have been arrested. (At most someone would have said "pipe down, father!") If you think they would have been, you're not living in the same world these imams are.

If 19 Catholics had hi-jacked planes and flown them into buildings killing over 3000 people in the name of Jesus Christ, I'd be willing to bet that later if 6 Catholic Preists were praying in an airport terminal praising Jesus Christ, they might have received the same treatment as these 6 Imams got.

If that is your logic then I should be running away from every American I see. I should shoot to kill anyone who even looks at me funny. I mean didn’t we just kill 30K inocent Iraqi Muslims because of reasons that didn’t exist?

Oh wait that’s different right

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Amazon 7]

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Are many Americans really that dumb that they think Iraq had so much more to do with 9/11 that it was a more important war to fight than Afghanistan?

YES... because their President told them so...

AND its colnstantly on right wing SHOUT AND SPEW HATE radio.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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If 19 Catholics had hi-jacked planes and flown them into buildings killing over 3000 people in the name of Jesus Christ, I'd be willing to bet that later if 6 Catholic Preists were praying in an airport terminal praising Jesus Christ, they might have received the same treatment as these 6 Imams got.

By that logic, any Catholic priest (especially one with a brogue) caught praying at Heathrow airport in the 1970s would have been spirited off to the Tower of London. (Or wherever the hell they stretch people on the rack in the UK)

I don't recall ever hearing about the IRA hi-jacking planes and flying them into tall buildings in London, while praising Jesus Christ.

I'd be willing to bet that if 6 imams entered a train station in Madrid, started praying, made anti- Spain statements, and were carrying backpacks, they might get a little more scrutiny than 6 Catholic priests.

[billvon 2,471]

>Based on what you've read about this incidendent, do you think the
> passengers and flight crew were completely unjustified about being
> alarmed by the behavior of these six men?

Is their fear understandable? Yes; a lot of people nowadays are afraid of arabs, especially muslims who are particularly religious.

Was the action taken (arrest and questioning) appropriate? I don't think so.

Take this example. A scruffy black man is seen late at night in a terminal. The cops in the airport have seen blacks commit far more crimes than whites in the terminal.

Appropriate action - ask him if he has a ticket and ID. If he is indeed there for a flight, no problem. If he's not - perhaps further action is warranted.

Inappropriate action - arrest him for being in the terminal, because he's black and scary and because blacks commit all the crimes.

Now, if this black man was also regaling the cops with anti-american speeches, then he should know better; that's not appropriate behavior when a cop asks you for something. That still does not justify his being arrested.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>If 19 Catholics had hi-jacked planes and flown them into buildings
> killing over 3000 people in the name of Jesus Christ, I'd be willing
> to bet that later if 6 Catholic Preists were praying in an airport
> terminal praising Jesus Christ, they might have received the same
> treatment as these 6 Imams got.

If you added "and most people in the US were Muslim" I'd agree; the situations would then be reversed. Doesn't make it right.

Well then you aren't agreeing because it doesn't make any difference to most people what race or religion someone is. When they see a pattern emerging that threatens them, they become more wary.

If I was cut of and almost involved in an accident with 6 red cars in the past year, I'd be a little more wary everytime I saw a red car.

[NCclimber 0]

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Are many Americans really that dumb that they think Iraq had so much more to do with 9/11 that it was a more important war to fight than Afghanistan?

YES.

Cite.