250 cops and they still fucked up!

[Skyrad 0]

Looked like ZZ Top to me.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Dancergirl 0]

Quote

A 250 man operation is not launched based on some dogy third hand information received in a pub. Theres probably not enough evidence to charge but doesn't mean they not upto something or weren't.

On a side note to that, most people would prefer to think it was a bodged raid than find out that a dirty bomb has gone missing

or worse still.... a dirty beard

[Dancergirl 0]

Quote

I admit THE MET are very capable of making mistakes

would that be the same Metropolitan Poilce that were found to be institutionally racist? by any chance?

Quote

but I cannot believe one of this magnitude

yes, this is way more serious than shooting an innocent person 7 times in the head when he's on the floor and posing no threat

Quote

As for De Menenenznznznznes or whatever his fucking name was, I forget what the outcome of it all was

1. he was shot in the had 7 times
2. he was totally innocent
3. the police (right up to Sir Ian Blair) covered it up
4. the officers that shot him in cold blood face no charges

Quote

but he shouldnt have been here if I recall correctly

few, thank god we murdered him then, much cheaper than deporting him

Quote

I can do nothing but thank those fficers that made the call based a split second, it takes balls to stand by your judgements, especially when your wrong.

i'll tell you a little story about our gun carrying police shall i?

back in 1995, a police van carrying 6 police officers was driving back to police head quaters in Nottinghamshire..... it was the middle of July and blisteringly hot, they were driving down a country lane with the back door open to the transit van they were driving. A good friend of mine just happened to be following the van as he drove over to see his mum. He notices a black bag fall out the back of the van. He flashes the van to stop but it carries on, so he turns round and goes back to the bag...inside are 6 revolvers belonging to our wonderful armed police force.

Now, my friend was a bit dodgy at the time and decides to sell them on the black market to a local gangster he knew. Unfortunately for my friend, a farmer in a field had seen everything and given his car licence plate to the police.

the police come round and break into his house, he is totally cooperative and submissive, yet still takes a few slaps from the policemen who had lost the guns. he ended up getting 7 years for firearm offences and served 4.5 years

moral of this story is..... i wouldn't trust a policeman with a gun more than a criminal, they can't even hang onto their own guns

[Red_Skydiver 0]

Wow - good story. Gotta say your friend made the wrong decision though and deserved the sentence. How would you feel about him if he had sold the weapons on successfully and someone had been killed with one of them? An innocent shopworker perhaps or a child?

That's the sort of story you tell down the pub and nobody believes you even though it might be true....

[Dancergirl 0]

sadly , its all true

before he went home with the guns, he visited his brother (who just happened to have 2 friends round at the time) the police found out about him going to his brothers with the guns...went round and arested them too. they wre all teenagers still, so they got 18 months in a young offenders institution.

what complicated the matter is the fact my mate also has 25 ecstacey pills and 3 grams of coke at his house so it wasn't just firearms offences he faced... he actuall got 4 year for the guns, and 3.5 for the drugs

total twat, but hey..you live and learn LOL

he served his time in Oakham prison at the same time as Mark Morrison (return of the mac, LOL) and had the room next to him.... Morrison was as quiet as a mouse while in there....what a gangster LOL

**edited for spelling*

[Dancergirl 0]

Quote

How would you feel about him if he had sold the weapons on successfully and someone had been killed with one of them? An innocent shopworker perhaps or a child?

personally... i thought he was a twat for trying to sell them, he should have gone to the national newspapers and earnt a fortune from the story... and it would have ended the careers of the police who lost the guns, result all round
but no, he decides to be a twat about it

[jakee 1,257]

Quote

Its weird how people don't recall the amount of bomb making equipment thats been recovered in raids, people detained and imprisoned for terrorism offences. Remember the Ricin seizures?

It's easy to criticise when something goes wrong but never seems to be any thanks when stuff goes right. It really is a thankless task working in law enforcement

Don't get me wrong, I think the police in this country generally do a very good job, I'd much rather have them watching my back than, say, the LAPD. To give them their dues, they seem to have had a decent amount of success seizing bomb making equipment and breaking up terrorist cells over the past few years.

However none of that makes this (if they truly were innocent) any less of a fuck up.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Never used to hear about this sort of scale of cock-up when the country was up against the IRA...

Quote:

"Police searched the two properties but did not find the chemical device which 'specific intelligence' had indicated was there... the intelligence received did raise serious concerns for public safety."

Would you want the police to NOT act upon such intelligence?

[kallend 1,628]

Quote

Quote

Never used to hear about this sort of scale of cock-up when the country was up against the IRA...

Quote:

"Police searched the two properties but did not find the chemical device which 'specific intelligence' had indicated was there... the intelligence received did raise serious concerns for public safety."

Would you want the police to NOT act upon such intelligence?

There exists such a thing as "Bad Intel". Maybe you remember. Acting on "Bad Intel" leads to all kinds of problems.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,257]

Quote

Would you want the police to NOT act upon such intelligence?

When the police raid houses and shoot people because of bad intelligence there is a problem that needs to be fixed. That problem may not lie with the cops out on the street, but it is still a problem. Can you grasp that concept?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[shropshire 0]

1st off yes of course they should act on the intel/claim.... From there, it's all a matter of appropriate scale.

I dont know where the information came from (which turned out to be wrong) so it could have come from a really bad source and maybe not checked up on properly.
Intel comes in many forms.. from properly constructed analysis down to someone overheard something in a pub or 'dropped a coin' because they bare a grudge/dont like the look of someone.

If there had been bomb making equipment.. would it have taken 250 coppers... No.. did you see the size of the house? you wouldn't get more than 20 in there at a time.. PR is my guess. and as it turns out.... disasterous PR at that.


Would you be happy with your front door kicked in and you scared/shot? Couldn't happen? Well it did to these people.

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Erroll 49]

Quote

because they bare a grudge/dont like the look of someone.

You mean to say that someone participating in this very thread might have provided the intelligence?

[miked10270 0]

Quote

If there had been bomb making equipment.. would it have taken 250 coppers...

Perhaps unsurprisingly, it doesn't actually work that way.

For an operation like this, the senior cop in charge would have put out a request for staff availability, then taken all he could for contingencies - for example, community reaction.

In effect, once he'd put together his raid team, say 20 including armed officers to cover the front & back of the house in pairs, cover any escape routes, and actually enter the house. Because there was a chemical threat they had to wear NBC gear so there'd have to be replacements to take over every 20 minutes or so. Then there's the search team (two per room, search advisor and search co-ordinator). Then there's the actual investigating team. Then there's the cordon to set on a 200 meter radius.

Finally, there's the reserve to provide for rest breaks (they could be there a while) and to cover against the raid sparking off civil unrest.

In effect, in deciding the staff levels for such a raid, the senior officer has to consider what could conceivably go WRONG and prepare for that.

It'd be nice if all it took was 2 beat cops knocking on the door and quietly arresting these folk...

BUT... IF those cops had been shot. IF this raid had sparked off a riot. IF the raid turned into a seige. IF the folk in the house had detonated "the Bomb"... Then sure as hell the cry "WHY WEREN'T THE POLICE PREPARED FOR THIS!!?" would have been heard all the way to Brisbane!

So, the cops DID prepare for these things, and since they didn't happen, they get accused of overkill by all the "experts" who've only ever planned a piss-up in a wine bar.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[miked10270 0]

Quote

... police raid houses and shoot people...

Apparently the shooting was blamed on the thick gloves worn as part of the chemical gear.

In future, they're not going to use thick Coppers Gloves with guns.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[philh 0]

Like any organisation the police can make mistakes. In this case it looks like they did, although the full facts are not in yet.
We should support the poice in making raids against potential terrorist threats. After all if they dont the results wilbe a lot worse than one guy injured. However if a mistake is made and an innocent person is hurt, surely it would be wise for community relations, atleast, to provide compensation.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Quote

Quote:

"Police searched the two properties but did not find the chemical device which 'specific intelligence' had indicated was there... the intelligence received did raise serious concerns for public safety."

Would you want the police to NOT act upon such intelligence?

There exists such a thing as "Bad Intel". Maybe you remember. Acting on "Bad Intel" leads to all kinds of problems.

And you, of course, the omniscient, would always know exactly the difference between bad intel and good intel in every case, and would never err on the side of caution for public safety.

You should offer yourself and your divine instincts as a consultant to the British police, so that no such mistakes would ever be made again.

And once again you stray off-topic to bash America.

It's so easy to throw rocks, after the fact. Don't you think so?

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

When the police raid houses and shoot people because of bad intelligence there is a problem that needs to be fixed. That problem may not lie with the cops out on the street, but it is still a problem. Can you grasp that concept?

See my message #41 to kallend. It applies equally to you.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

BUT... IF those cops had been shot. IF this raid had sparked off a riot. IF the raid turned into a seige. IF the folk in the house had detonated "the Bomb"... Then sure as hell the cry "WHY WEREN'T THE POLICE PREPARED FOR THIS!!?"

And then kallend and jakee would be in here whining about that!

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

See my message #41 to kallend. It applies equally to you.

can you post a link? As an American, I'm apparently too busy to either do monetary exchange rates or page up one post in a thread

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[miked10270 0]

Quote

Quote

BUT... IF ... Then the cry "WHY WEREN'T THE POLICE PREPARED FOR THIS!!?"

And then kallend and jakee would be in here whining about that!

They wouldn't be alone mate.

There's NOTHING worse (as you may have noticed) than a bodged police op. The reason they're so manpower intensive is because a lot of time and effort is spent on preparing for what might go wrong.

Thinking about it, the Home Ofice & Security Service must be laughing fit to bust a gut! They provided the intelligence and sanctioned the raid, and now that it's gone Pear-Shaped it's the police that're copping (sic) all the blame!

It's perfect! All of a sudden everyone's forgotten about all the foreign gangsters & sex-criminals that the Home Office recently let back out to play!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[jakee 1,257]

Quote

And then kallend and jakee would be in here whining about that!

Am I whining?

All I've done is answer to scoop who said this couldn't possibly have been a mistake, and you who don't seem to see any problem at all with faulty intel. Can you show me where I've whined about the way the raid was carried out? Didn't think so.

By the way, kallend's bashing Bush, not America. Quite a hefty difference that once again you may have failed to grasp.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[livendive 8]

Quote

There exists such a thing as "Bad Intel". Maybe you remember. Acting on "Bad Intel" leads to all kinds of problems.

And you, of course, the omniscient, would always know exactly the difference between bad intel and good intel in every case, and would never err on the side of caution for public safety.

You should offer yourself and your divine instincts as a consultant to the British police, so that no such mistakes would ever be made again.

And once again you stray off-topic to bash America.

It's so easy to throw rocks, after the fact. Don't you think so?