gun nuts. help

[Dancergirl 0]

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Not hunting the animal results in a few things. One of which is over population, which creates food shortages, starvation issues and dieses

oh i get it !!!! you're doing them a favour by killing them

[JohnRich 4]

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- people who hunt for pleasure are scum-bags...
- What kind of dick-head gets pleasure from killing an animal...
- you're a retard...
- you truly have to be one sad cunt...
- no better than Al-Zarqawi...
- do you feel like a real man...
- what big balls you must have...
- you are too fat/stupid/redneck...

Goodness, I think you should quit holding back and let us know what you really think.

If we hunt for food, is that okay with you?

So, you must be a devout vegatarian who never uses any leather products, correct?

[Dancergirl 0]

yes, hunting for food is fine

hunting for the fun of killing is not

[AggieDave 6]

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yes, hunting for food is fine

hunting for the fun of killing is not

What if you enjoy the food and the hunt is still fun? Lets say that you don't *need* the food, you can buy what you need, but you enjoy the food you get from your own hunt?

Now, go some research about deer. It'll help educate your opinion.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[JohnRich 4]

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oh i get it !!!! you're doing them a favour by killing them

Is it a terrible thing when deer are killed in nature by predators?

Or is it part of the natural cycle of life, where some die in order that others may live, and it's all balanced so that all can survive equally?

Would you repeat all those criticisms you made of hunters, against wolves, coyotes, bears and mountain lions?

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yes, hunting for food is fine
hunting for the fun of killing is not

Okay, what about hunting for pest control and population control?

Population control by hunters is necessary because the natural predators of deer who used to do that job no longer exist in sufficient numbers.

Oh, and you skipped right over this previous question, so please concentrate and try again:

So, you must be a devout vegatarian who never uses any leather products, correct?

[AggieDave 6]

Tell you what, I'll help out your research.

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One of the most interesting papers on the impact of deer is the paper by R. J. Warren [op. cit.], from which the following is taken:

"The best evidence of the adverse effects of an overpopulation of deer on plant communities and ecological succession was provided in a recent study of a 60 to 70-year-old Allegheny hardwood forest in Pennsylvania where deer densities were controlled experimentally in 160-acre enclosures that had been clearcut, thinned, or uncut. Tilghman (1989) demonstrated significant reductions in tree seedling height, density, and diversity in all enclosures where deer densities reached 40-80 [per square mile]. At these higher deer densities, she documented a shift in forest succession to a near-monoculture of black cherry (Prunus serotina), and profound changes in the composition of herbaceous ground cover, all of which were the direct result of overbrowsing by deer."

"In a study of plant communities in Great Smoky Mountains National Park in Tennessee, Bratton (1979) documented a reduction in the number of plant species, a loss of hardwood species, and a predominance of conifer species in an area of the park heavily populated by deer compared to an ecologically similar control area with fewer deer."

"Perhaps one of the most significant plant indicators of an overpopulation of deer in an area is the occurrence of 'bark stripping' on trees. During winter in Catoctin Mountain Park, Maryland, deer strip significant amounts of bark from elms (Ulmus spp.) (Warren and Ford 1990). Bark stripping has been proposed as an indicator of low forage availability for ungulates (Miquelle and Van Ballenberghe 1989). Bark stripping by deer represents an exacerbation of the overbrowsing problem in forests. The adverse effects of overbrowsing on understory vegetation and seedlings are further compounded by the effect of bark stripping on midstory and overstory trees via increased susceptibility of trees to disease and mortality (Miquelle and Ballenberghe 1989)."

"On Saratoga National Historical Park, New York, deer browsing prevented recruitment of tree seedlings to saplings...(Soukup, et. al. 1990). Bratton and Kramer (1990) determined that overbrowsing by deer on Cumberland Island National Seashore, Georgia, was helping suppress live oak (Quercus virginiana) seedlings, sprouts and saplings in the forest that dominates the island."

"Scott and Yahner (1989) found greater use by snowshoe hares (Lepus americanus) and Dessecker and Yahner (1987) found greater breeding-bird community species richness and diversity on recent (<= 6 years old) clearcut stands in north-central Pennsylvania that had been successfully regenerated (>= 70 percent of plots stocked with desirable tree species <= 5 feet tall) as compared to those not successfully regenerated (<= 50 percent stocking level). Overbrowsing by deer was the major cause of unsuccessful regeneration."

"One well known natural preserve decided decades ago to control deer to prevent vegetation damage. The 1,146-acre George Reserve in Michigan was established so the area could 'follow its natural course without interference by Man' (McCullough 1973:3). In the mid-1930s after deer had been reintroduced to the area for less than 10 years, 'it was imperative the the deer population be artificially controlled by Man, even though such action ran counter to the basic philosophy of noninterference in the natural processes of the area. It was recognized that part of the problem was lack of natural predators in the area, and the role of predator had to be played by Man' (McCullough 1979:8). Interestingly, 'deer are the only animals (or plants) on the Reserve that are artificially controlled' (McCullough 1984:239)."

AND

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Where there are populations of humans encroaching upon, or even sharing, living space with the white-tailed deer, there are bound to be conflicts. The deer need space to live and food to eat, as do the humans, and as the deer search for both living space and food in an area populated by humans, there will be interaction on a variety of levels. In the words of Dr. Warren again [op. cit.]:

"Deer overpopulation can be defined simply as too many deer in a particular area. Yet the concept of 'too many' can include a variety of social, biological, or ecological definitions. There can be too many deer in an area from the standpoint of public safety (e. g., excessive deer/vehicle collisions), agricultural damage, and damage to landscape plantings..."

Often it is farmers concerned about their crops, and suburban residents tired of replacing ornamental plants and afraid of potentially lethal collisions who first complain about deer overpopulation. And their complaints are not made entirely without justification: As already mentioned, a collision in a vehicle, while often lethal to the deer, is also potentially lethal to the humans in the car, either because of inappropriate avoidance maneuvers, or by direct impact of the animal upon the vehicle's occupants (as in the case of one incident with which I am familiar in Delmar, New York, some years ago, in which the skull of the passenger was penetrated by the deer's hoof). In 1993, the State of Pennsylvania recorded 45,954 car-deer impacts in which the dead deer was recovered. There were probably many more in which the deer was not killed, and undoubtedly some incidents in which the deer was killed and the event not reported nor the deer recovered, but even aside from the loss of human (and Cervid) life such collisions cause, the economic impact of these collisions (as vehicle damage is repaired and human injuries treated) should not be ignored. Indeed, as stated in Deer Management Recommendations for the State and Local Governemnt, and the Citizens of DMU 96, prepared by Dr. Paul D. Curtis, of Cornell University, in 1993:

"Decker, et. al. (1990), estimated that 57,000 deer-car collisions occurred in New York during 1988, resulting in property damage in the range of $50 million. Any other method of deer control is safer, more humane, and more cost-effective."

Those who favor protection of [especially suburban] deer herds, whether animal "rights" advocates or simply anti-hunting activists, should pay particular attention to the last sentence of the preceding quote from Dr. Curtis.

Compared to such horrific incidents, damage to shrubbery certainly seems benign enough, but there is a significant economic impact from the cost of repeated attempts at landscaping, implementation of protective measures, or, failing all that, the reduction in estimated real estate value. These factors may seem crass, but they are both real and significant. And the increased cost of food caused by the appetites of scavenging deer in midwestern grain fields or the fruit orchards of the east is a direct cost to the consumer as well. Probably none of these compares favorably with the National Debt, but deer do cost us millions each year, and not all citizens are willing to pay these costs unflinchingly, based on philosophical principle alone.

Both of those quotes are from http://brianoconnor.typepad.com/animal_crackers/DEER.HTM

By Rich Young who was nice enough to have done some research already from noted range management professionals and post the references.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Dancergirl 0]

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What if you enjoy the food and the hunt is still fun? Lets say that you don't *need* the food, you can buy what you need, but you enjoy the food you get from your own hunt?

what if... what if... what if....

what if the world stops turning???

you know what my point is, billy-boy redneck and his retarded son going out to kill just for the hell of it.... they're the pole smokers i'm talking about

[JohnRich 4]

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billy-boy redneck and his retarded son going out to kill just for the hell of it.... they're the pole smokers i'm talking about

I kill fire ants in my yard, and spiders in my house, just for fun. Does that make me a retarded billy-boy redneck?

I understand now why you don't fill out your profile information. If I expressed uninformed, derogatory opinions like yours, I'd hide too.

[rehmwa 2]

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billy-boy redneck and his retarded son

nice - I can see our education system is really working with its self-proclaimed emphasis on appreciating the various cultures in our so-called melting pot

go ahead and replace that slur with one racially based or gay based or about another country with less resources and see what comes of it. go ahead - I dare you

I don't hunt anymore, I like to get my meat all wrapped up in wax paper and ready for the grill, but you really don't understand it one bit. And deer in the bigger cities are just garbage eaters and no more than rats, etc

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Jib 0]

Maybe people should shoot tofu.
Raise the price and really piss off some vegans.

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[AggieDave 6]

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Maybe people should shoot tofu.
Raise the price and really piss off some vegans.

Sure, but I can't stand hearing the cute little tofu's scream and every time I see a shot tofu I think of that cute little tofu in that Disney movie...the one with the lettuce friend called Crisper.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[warpedskydiver 0]

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I prefer... M118 LR ball ammo

I shot a box of 20 at a 1,000-yard shoot yesterday, using my M1A (M-14), and they worked fairly well for me. That box was given to me by someone.

I've seen M118 LR advertised, but very expensive, like $30 for a box of 20. Do you know of a cheap source for this stuff?

Otherwise, I'm sticking to my reloads which duplicate that cartridge, in order to save my bank account.

I am sure you are aware that reloads or handloads will exceeed the specs of M118LR.

After all you have fire formed brass and can match the ammo to the max chamber length of your weapon by measure from the muzzle to the bolt face and then from the muzzle to a chambered rounds.(Go/Nogo rounds work nicely)

[warpedskydiver 0]

deer in the bigger cities are just garbage eaters and no more than rats, etc

[warpedskydiver 0]

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people who hunt for pleasure are scum-bags

a Deer is majeskic and does no harm to anybody (i'm not talking about idiots who say they have to kill them for coming into town or anything like that, even though that's a load of bollocks as well) this planet is big enough that humans and animals can all live side by side

What kind of dick-head gets pleasure from killing an animal just because they can? i can't think of any bigger way to show the world you're a retard than by going into the wilderness and killing animals just for the "pleasure" in killing them you truly have to be one sad cunt to get pleasure from that

Wanna call me that to my face?

I hunt for the pleasure of it.
Yes I eat every piece of meat I can cut off the animal, and nothing is wasted.
However if I did not enjoy hunting I would not unless i or my family were starving.

Go ahead keep your shitty opinion to yourself.

If you have issues with me, or my opinions, or would like to refer to me in person in those derogatory terms, I can arrange that for you with no problems sweetie.

[Dancergirl 0]

glad to see you've not taken it to heart

[warpedskydiver 0]

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glad to see you've not taken it to heart

Glad to see you didn't even consider what you said as being derogatory, libelous, and incorrect.

[billvon 2,406]

Both of you cut it out.

[StreetScooby 5]

Well, we don't know where you're from, but it's clearly not New Jersey. How many deer have hit your car? Probably none. How many deer have ravaged your garden, because of over population in suburban areas? How many lyme ticks are in your area? Deer in suburban areas are a nuisance. End of story. They need to be culled.

We are all engines of karma

[skydyvr 0]

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Both of you cut it out.

Why is artistcalledian still allowed here?

. . =(_8^(1)

[JohnRich 4]

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I am sure you are aware that reloads or handloads will exceeed the specs of M118LR.

After all you have fire formed brass and can match the ammo to the max chamber length of your weapon by measure from the muzzle to the bolt face and then from the muzzle to a chambered rounds.(Go/Nogo rounds work nicely)

Well, that's the theory. But I'm still tuning my handloads for 1,000-yard shooting. The M118 ammo actually gave me a little bit higher score than my reloads. But I have a known problem with my reloads getting to the target barely supersonic. My target pullers tell me they just give a light "pop" sound, instead of a loud "crack", from the sonic boom. So they're slowing down too much and losing stability. I need to add some more powder, and then I start worrying about exceeding pressure limits. So I'll be experimenting some more, increasing my load by a tenth of a grain at a time, and watching for signs of pressure. Ack!

[warpedskydiver 0]

I see now...M1A firing 168grain?? HPBT?

[JohnRich 4]

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I see now...M1A firing 168grain?? HPBT?

I use the Sierra 175 grain HPBTM bullets. That's the recommended bullet for 1,000 yards with a .308 - they're a little better than the 168's. And 42 grains of IMR 4895 powder. I need to bump that powder charge up just a tad... I've had variations in pressure with different batches of this same powder, sometimes dramatic. I think the batch I have now is a bit slow.

For example, I had to change my elevation sight setting UP by 3 minutes of angle when I went from the military M118 ammo, to my reloads. That's a 30-inch difference in point of impact. So obviously, my reloads are slower than the M118 ammo. That gives me a little bit of comfort with the idea of adding more powder, and staying safe.

I wish Santa would bring me a chronograph so I could measure velocity!

[packertom 0]

I'm a big fan of .308 here in Texas there isn't anything big enough for me to worry about needing serious knock down... M118 is good stuff when you can get it... I reload my own to spec and match or exceed the M118 performance.... personally if I was hunting anything larger than a whitetail I'd start with a 7 mag, perhaps think about a 300 win mag... I had a 458 mag for a while that I sold due to the fact that it was just overkill here in Texas and everyone made fun of me for overcompensating for something (the rumors are not true, I can supply references on request ) , but I could load some magic for it that would really reach out and touch things .... I recently shot a 338 lapua (8.6x70 for those not familiar with it, conceived in Finland for sniping to bridge the gap between 300 mag and .50 cal) shot is at 1000... now that is the shit... I'm a convert and am thinking about importing some moose here to Texas to justify buying one, or perhaps a tyranosaurus or two

[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com
What's YOUR Zombie Plan?

[warpedskydiver 0]

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I'm a big fan of .308 here in Texas there isn't anything big enough for me to worry about needing serious knock down... M118 is good stuff when you can get it... I reload my own to spec and match or exceed the M118 performance.... personally if I was hunting anything larger than a whitetail I'd start with a 7 mag, perhaps think about a 300 win mag... I had a 458 mag for a while that I sold due to the fact that it was just overkill here in Texas and everyone made fun of me for overcompensating for something (the rumors are not true, I can supply references on request ) , but I could load some magic for it that would really reach out and touch things .... I recently shot a 338 lapua (8.6x70 for those not familiar with it, conceived in Finland for sniping to bridge the gap between 300 mag and .50 cal) shot is at 1000... now that is the shit... I'm a convert and am thinking about importing some moose here to Texas to justify buying one, or perhaps a tyranosaurus or two

It may be overkill on a TRex as well...but who cares? that damned thing is great fun to shoot

I like the M98 in .338 Lapua and also I like the Robar, the Barret is good, but just impractical.

It is already bad enough that I have a 14.5lb rifle
I wouldn't mind the weight if it had a belt feed

[JohnRich 4]

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I recently shot a 338 lapua (8.6x70 for those not familiar with it, conceived in Finland for sniping to bridge the gap between 300 mag and .50 cal) shot is at 1000...

Lucky you. I've seen the cartridge for it, and it's impressive.

My gun club has banned it from our range because we have a public road about three miles downrange from our impact berm, and they're afraid that an accidental discharge might go over top and reach that far...