stoneycase 0 #1 May 1, 2006 http://media.spikedhumor.com/24864/insane_woman_on_fox_news.wmv Not sure if you all have seen this. I don't watch a whole lot of Fox News, so this was new to me. Some background: the woman in the video is Rev Fred Phelps daughter. Fred Phelps is the Reverend who has become popular these last few years for his antics at soldier's funerals, the funeral of a young gay man who was brutually assaulted and killed, and other 'events'. This is the "God Hates Fags" guy. He has children. This is his daughter. Watching this video first brought on apathy, i.e. 'whatever, just another crazy *****' Then it became anger, i.e. 'who the hell does she think she is?!' Then finally it became sadness, i.e. 'she honestly believes what she's saying' So, my question is, "Is she crazy?" I mean certifiable here. I'm not talking about crazy like 'jump from a plane' crazy ;) I'm talking crazy like doctor-diagnoses-a-disorder-crazy. Part of my sadness arises from the fact that I don't think she's crazy. She seems perfectly sane. And that's truly the sad part. IMO, Religious beliefs have clouded her mind from reality and the 'truth' that exists here, on planet earth. But she's not crazy, a crazy person, to me, is just plain irrational (and sometimes they even know it). This woman bases her beliefs on the bible and scripture. I can't call her actions/beliefs irrational, or I risk calling all believers irrational, don't I? /little bit on phelps, if you're interested (or disgusted): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev._Fred_PhelpsDoes whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #2 May 1, 2006 QuoteI can't call her actions/beliefs irrational, or I risk calling all believers irrational, don't I? I think religious beliefs can create wackos when misapplied (I also lump in the political party lines as 'religious' beliefs of the same sort). you see it all over the place Indoctrination begins young, in the homes and schools. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #3 May 1, 2006 can she be ordered to donate her organs on the spot? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #4 May 1, 2006 so wrong application of beliefs = crazy? she's crazy then? i was ready to throw 'crazy' on her forehead as well. but how do you call a person crazy who bases their beliefs on 'rational thought' and 'facts' (i.e. discussions on scripture) is it her actions alone that make her crazy - not the thought/belief? i could maybe buy that - a sane person wouldn't protest anyone's funeral, or would they?Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #5 May 1, 2006 Quotecan she be ordered to donate her organs on the spot? careful...they may be tainted i've added her to the list of people who need a boot in their ass. that's for sure.Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #6 May 1, 2006 QuoteI'm not talking about crazy like 'jump from a plane' crazy ;) Who the hell would ever be crazy enough to jump from a plane???So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #7 May 1, 2006 She certainly is very articulate isn't she? Altho entirely full of shit I don't think shes the least bit crazy. Maybe you should have had "brainwashed" as another choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fireballgrl 0 #8 May 1, 2006 The Bible does not teach hatred like that. It makes me ill to hear people using the Bible that way. I have heard that several of the family members are attorneys. They have also been known to video tape all of their protests to use any resistance against them or police interference against it in a court room. I want to know who would take their legal issues to people like this?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SabreDave 0 #9 May 1, 2006 I think she needs to be sodomizedSabreDave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,124 #10 May 1, 2006 She's pitiful. I'm not a big believer in evil, but I do think her father is either insane in a megalomaniacal/religious fervor kind of way, or, well, evil. And doing that to his children kind of tips it to the evil way. Kind of like what Saddam Hussein did to his kids, teaching them about torture. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #11 May 1, 2006 Stoney, the issue with mental illness is that it's not apparent on it's face. In other words, you can see someone who has been fighting cancer - their bodies show the fight. But you can't always identify mentally ill folk by the way they look or "seem." That being said... I don't think she is insane, or even disturbed. She has chosen her faith and manner of expression. That is NOT to say that I agree with her, or that her family upbringing didn't influence her mightily. Personally, I think that she is as evil and mean as they come. And if she protested a funeral when I was there, she'd hear some "blasphemy" from me, I promise... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #12 May 1, 2006 QuoteShe certainly is very articulate isn't she? Altho entirely full of shit I don't think shes the least bit crazy. Maybe you should have had "brainwashed" as another choice. ah, you picked up on that too...i noticed that as well. she's honestly a decent speaker. thoughts are organized well. speech is clear. vocab is there. obviously educated and able to write/read well. hope you chose 'other' (honestly i'm surprised more haven't made the same choice)Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #13 May 1, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm not talking about crazy like 'jump from a plane' crazy ;) Who the hell would ever be crazy enough to jump from a plane??? i have no idea...just boggles the mind, doesn't it?? Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #14 May 1, 2006 QuoteThe Bible does not teach hatred like that. It makes me ill to hear people using the Bible that way. I have heard that several of the family members are attorneys. They have also been known to video tape all of their protests to use any resistance against them or police interference against it in a court room. I want to know who would take their legal issues to people like this?! I would agree with you, the Bible does not teach hatred like that. It's obvious that she has quite a bit of energy pent-up in the form of anger and hate. But the Bible does say that sodomy is a sin/abomination (does it actually say it's an abomination? somebody who's read and can remember correct me). If Fred and his daughter are 'only believers' trying to spread the 'good word' then what is the real problem? The words, as they are written, or these people's actions and interpretations? IMHO, having sources like the Bible that are 'untouchable' (i.e. the word of god is infallible) is part of the problem. Would the Phelps' have as much ammo as they do now, if no one cared about or gave much credit to the Bible? The Phelps' rely on our own belief that the Bible is sacred to enhance/reinforce their twisted beliefs. Seems like a 'thinking person' is left to not only distance themselves from the Phelps and their poison, but also from the source, the Bible itself. oh, and I read some more about the lawyer aspect...seems like you are correct. from the wiki article: "The Phelps family arrived on May 17, 1954, the same day that the United States Supreme Court handed down its decision on Brown v. Board of Education. Fred Sr. would later claim that he took this as a sign from God that he should become a lawyer." /the guy became a lawyer to fight for equal rights. seems like he even took up the fight in a few instances. little ironic, don't ya think? (his law career is far more interesting/twisted than that little sentence, btw)Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #15 May 1, 2006 QuoteShe's pitiful. I'm not a big believer in evil, but I do think her father is either insane in a megalomaniacal/religious fervor kind of way, or, well, evil. And doing that to his children kind of tips it to the evil way. Kind of like what Saddam Hussein did to his kids, teaching them about torture. Wendy W. Sane but evil. I'm in the same boat. The father OTOH. Some of what he does is downright nutty. I'd be real tempted to label him crazy. Hard to do that to the daughter though. Perhaps I am just a sucker for someone who can speak in complete sentences... (unlike most of our elected politicians..)Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #16 May 1, 2006 lots of mean, hateful shit in the old testament. lots of love/forgiveness in the new testament. since I'm a Christian, new testament applies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #17 May 1, 2006 QuoteStoney, the issue with mental illness is that it's not apparent on it's face. In other words, you can see someone who has been fighting cancer - their bodies show the fight. But you can't always identify mentally ill folk by the way they look or "seem." That being said... I don't think she is insane, or even disturbed. She has chosen her faith and manner of expression. That is NOT to say that I agree with her, or that her family upbringing didn't influence her mightily. Personally, I think that she is as evil and mean as they come. And if she protested a funeral when I was there, she'd hear some "blasphemy" from me, I promise... Ciels- Michele another Sane but Evil. i'm with ya... i thought the exact same thing, she has made the choice to embrace the beliefs and her words/actions reflect her choice. but here's the thing (my coworker been hitting me over the head with this all day): shouldn't a sane person see through all the bullshit? shouldn't a simple stroll down the town main street yield the conclusion that "the world is a wide and wonderful place full of variety. hatred toward your fellow man/woman is no way to go about preaching the wonders of christ"? shouldn't a sane person think to themselves, "WTF am i saying?!" my response has been, "no, she has prioritized the Bible above 'reality' i.e. the outside world. nothing she sees in the outside world will change her beliefs. about the only thing that would change her, would be editing the Bible itself"Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #18 May 2, 2006 Quotebut here's the thing (my coworker been hitting me over the head with this all day): shouldn't a sane person see through all the bullshit? shouldn't a simple stroll down the town main street yield the conclusion that "the world is a wide and wonderful place full of variety. hatred toward your fellow man/woman is no way to go about preaching the wonders of christ"? shouldn't a sane person think to themselves, "WTF am i saying?!" Rational thought is just a set of tools (logic, critical thinking, et al.) that let us operate on what we observe, and what we remember. Beliefs, like the one this woman appears to hold (one might call them prejudices if looking for a more negative connotation) filter observations before rational thought even gets started. In a sense, one's quest for "truth" or "what's right" is over as soon as you believe anything. Philosophers and psychologists have gone on for ages about flaws in our ability to observe things, and while you could argue one way or the other about the merits of a belief system that makes you see the silver lining of every cloud, it's pretty hard to argue in favor of one that has you cheering for death at funerals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #19 May 2, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm not talking about crazy like 'jump from a plane' crazy ;) Who the hell would ever be crazy enough to jump from a plane??? Let alone a side door on a bus! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #20 May 2, 2006 QuoteRational thought is just a set of tools (logic, critical thinking, et al.) that let us operate on what we observe, and what we remember. Beliefs, like the one this woman appears to hold (one might call them prejudices if looking for a more negative connotation) filter observations before rational thought even gets started. do they really just filter observations? the beliefs exist on their own, before any observation is made, i think...wouldn't the belief exist before any observation is made (and therefore before rational throught as well, as u point out). she goes into the world, into everyday, with her 'reality' (i.e. we're all sodomists or sodomy sympathsizers bound for ye old inferno downstairs) before she even sets foot outside and takes a look at the sun or the grass. Quote In a sense, one's quest for "truth" or "what's right" is over as soon as you believe anything. that's why i've always fancied the realists when reading philosophy ;) they tend to look first, observe, then conclude. Quote Philosophers and psychologists have gone on for ages about flaws in our ability to observe things, and while you could argue one way or the other about the merits of a belief system that makes you see the silver lining of every cloud, it's pretty hard to argue in favor of one that has you cheering for death at funerals. yup. and like i said, to a 'thinking' person like myself, it makes me want to take 10 steps further away from anything even remotely resembling organized religion. i know she's not the norm, don't get me wrong. but her 'evidence', from which this hate is based, is the Bible.Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #21 May 2, 2006 Quote it makes me want to take 10 steps further away from anything even remotely resembling organized religion like organized religions political parties small, highly nationalize countries cults highly internalized corporations high intensity sports organizations speaker's corner Starbucks Krispie Kremes ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #22 May 2, 2006 >Krispie Kremes Come to think of it, I have noticed the glazed donuts getting a little dogmatic lately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #23 May 2, 2006 Quotedo they really just filter observations? the beliefs exist on their own, before any observation is made, i think...wouldn't the belief exist before any observation is made (and therefore before rational throught as well, as u point out). she goes into the world, into everyday, with her 'reality' (i.e. we're all sodomists or sodomy sympathsizers bound for ye old inferno downstairs) before she even sets foot outside and takes a look at the sun or the grass. I think we're actually agreeing here. Beliefs sit somewhere between our senses and rational thought, limiting or altering what of the former is available to the later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #24 May 2, 2006 Quote like organized religions yup. Quotepolitical parties is it really freedom of choice, if there are only 2 choices? Quote small, highly nationalize countries thank god i'm in the US? Quote cults yup, but i so enjoy the free kool-aid they provide... Quote highly internalized corporations we all need to pay the bills...if i don't work for a business of some kind, then i must work for myself. and sadly, this is not the case at the moment. at least at work they don't ask me to 'believe' in anything, other than the belief that my organization is 'the best' at what we do. Quotehigh intensity sports organizations did i miss something where the football coach said i needed to believe in an omnipotent being and that anal sex was an abomination? Quotespeaker's corner then i'd be stuck talking to coworkers only all day. ;) QuoteStarbucks I live in a city that banned starbucks. Seriously. Starbucks moved in, the City threw out an ord that said plainly, "no more starbucks". They let the existing handful stay and gave the boot to any and all future projects... QuoteKrispie Kremes sorry, i'm west coast. we don't have that crap here. j/k! i used to love the KK when i lived in VA. Yeah it's a bitch, I'm sitting here saying, "Seems to me this woman is a manifestation of the hate that exists on the surface of organized religion" and "She's exactly the reason why a rational thinking person would want to take anything from the Bible or their church with a grain of salt" It's gotta be hard to convert people, when those people you want to convert look at you and only see hate/intolerance. Like I said, I don't think the woman's crazy. Brainwashed, probably. Evil, most certainly. But she's sane. She grounded all of her extreme beliefs in a widely accepted text that is, by most standards, 'untouchable' and 'infallible'. I can either choose to discredit her and simply believe that she's a twisted nutjob, or I can discredit the source. In this case, I think I've chosen to discredit both the source and the person.Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #25 May 2, 2006 She is madder than mad Jack McMad, winner of the all-Scotland Mr. Mad competition...... (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
