warpedskydiver 0 #1 March 3, 2006 Colo. Teacher Punished for Bush Comment By Associated Press 3 hours ago AURORA, Colo. - About 150 high school students walked out of class to protest a decision to put a teacher on leave while they investigate remarks he made about President Bush in class, including that some people compare Bush to Adolf Hitler. The protest came Thursday as administrators began investigating whether Overland High School teacher Jay Bennish violated a policy requiring balancing viewpoints in the classroom, Cherry Creek School District spokeswoman Tustin Amole said. "It was peaceful. The students yelled, but there was no fighting," Amole said. "Most of them did return to class." A telephone number listed for Bennish, who has been teaching social studies and American history at Overland since 2000, had been disconnected. Sophomore Sean Allen recorded about 20 minutes of Bennish's class during a Feb. 1 discussion about Bush's State of the Union speech and gave the recording to his father, who complained to the principal, Amole said. "After listening to the tape, it's evident the comments in the class were inappropriate. There were not adequate opportunities for opposing points of view," she said. Deborah Fallin, spokeswoman for the Colorado Education Association, which represents about 37,000 union teachers, said it will not represent Bennish because he is not a member, but said that Bennish has hired an attorney. Quote Whether or not he likes or hates our President he should have his job terminated for teaching shit like that in a HS classroom...Hitler was far more evil than Bush ever could be. Bush did not exterminate 6 million Jews and cost the world over 50 million lives due to WW2!!! If that is the level of this mans intellect he should maybe go be a DNC chairman, or a hate mongering political pundit ...like those we see spewing shit from their mouths on TV Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rasmack 0 #2 March 3, 2006 Dude, have you actually heard what he said? Saying that some have compared Bush to Hitler is not the same as endorsing the viewpoint. Me thinks you're being a bit quick to judge here... HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #3 March 3, 2006 the entire topic should have not even come into that classroom... It's like what happened here in my town... A teacher was doing history and the topic of discussion was the revolution and our Constitution. The teacher was quoted as saying "Thomas Jefferson was a rich white man and he owned slaves"...that his only contribution was that! nothing about the fact he invented the rectangular system of surveying which our country uses... Nothing about the fact that he was one of the authors of our Constitution. nothing about his accomplishment in the expansion of our country via the Louisiana purchase...nothing at all other than he was rich white and owned slaves... the same teacher taught his class that Abraham Lincoln started the civil war to stop slavery!!! and guess what? that DOLT is still teaching! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #4 March 3, 2006 Another wonderful example of bypassing the substance for the semantics. People who agree will say: "Free Speech!" People who disagree will say: "Indoctrinating our Youth!" Undoubtedly, you will see pages of this crap go back and forth with out a single mention of how good of a teacher is this guy or is he trying to stimulate people into actually _using_ their brains. Nope, forget that. "Free Speech!" "Indoctrinating our youth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #5 March 3, 2006 He was hired to teach a subject, not to sermonize to a captive audience. A rather large difference, don't you think?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,141 #6 March 3, 2006 QuoteHe was hired to teach a subject, not to sermonize to a captive audience. A rather large difference, don't you think? I didn't see a full transcript, but could it be possible he said: Some people think Bush is the greatest president ever and some think he is similar to Hitler. Is that sermonizing or teaching the fact that the US hasn't been this divided in a long, long time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #7 March 3, 2006 QuoteHe was hired to teach a subject, not to sermonize to a captive audience. A rather large difference, don't you think? See? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #8 March 3, 2006 Anything is possible.... but obviously the students were upset over SOMEthing that was said. I'd like to think that today's kids have a bit more intelligence than to get bent out of shape over something similar to your example.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #9 March 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteHe was hired to teach a subject, not to sermonize to a captive audience. A rather large difference, don't you think? See? This was a history class, not a debate team. The teacher has a lesson plan they are expected to follow. What part of that is so hard to understand?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tcnelson 1 #10 March 3, 2006 yes...i see that you don't see the difference, which is, as mneal said, a rather large one."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #11 March 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteHe was hired to teach a subject, not to sermonize to a captive audience. A rather large difference, don't you think? See? This was a history class, not a debate team. The teacher has a lesson plan they are expected to follow. What part of that is so hard to understand? So imagine this: The teacher says the US is bringing freedom and democracy to the middle east and does not torture or detain prisoners against the Geneva Conventions. A student records this, gets it played on Air America radio and seeks to have the teacher disciplined or fired because of his "right-wing rants." What would you say about that? I will bet my left nut that you would change your view 180 degrees depending on whether you agree or disagree with what is being said. That's the problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #12 March 3, 2006 Quoteyes...i see that you don't see the difference, which is, as mneal said, a rather large one. The difference is you don't agree with the opinion. If you did you would take the exact opposite position. That's a big difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lisamariewillbe 1 #13 March 3, 2006 I love our president, dont love everything he has done but I stand by him. And to me this teacher does not deserve to lose his job because he said "some people compare ..." At the highschool level kids are smart enough to either agree or disagree, and a teachers remark will not change their mind, some will voice their opinions and some dont give a shit. Its not like he commited treason. Why was the kid recording the lecture in highschool? I think this is out of hand and not worth someones job.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 94 #14 March 3, 2006 QuoteSo imagine this: The teacher says the US is bringing freedom and democracy to the middle east and does not torture or detain prisoners against the Geneva Conventions. A student records this, gets it played on Air America radio and seeks to have the teacher disciplined or fired because of his "right-wing rants." What would you say about that? I will bet my left nut that you would change your view 180 degrees depending on whether you agree or disagree with what is being said. That's the problem. I did hear an extended excerpt of his rant, and it was a rant, and extremely inappropriate, in my opinion. Your hypothetical 'right wing rant' does not even come close in comparison. It is pretty much exactly what the president has said. I understand you don't agree with the presidents assertions, but it is not an over the top rant like what I heard. The teacher was clearly spewing hate, not encouraging students to think for themselves.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 94 #15 March 3, 2006 QuoteAnd to me this teacher does not deserve to lose his job because he said "some people compare ..." That is a huge mischaracterization of what he said.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tcnelson 1 #16 March 3, 2006 QuoteThe difference is you don't agree with the opinion. If you did you would take the exact opposite position. no, that's incorrect. the difference is that in the setting of being a HS history teacher, one needs to be impartial and needs to discuss issues with the goal of furthering knowledge, fostering rational thought, and instilling excitement about learning. that's not what this teacher did. he used his position to shape his students viewpoint to match his own. i would say that's wrong no matter what the opinion of the teacher is/was."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #17 March 3, 2006 QuoteI understand you don't agree with the presidents assertions, but it is not an over the top rant like what I heard. The teacher was clearly spewing hate, not encouraging students to think for themselves. So you disagree with his opinion, therefore he should be fired. If he just as spiritedly said the exact opposite thing, that would be just fine with you. There are a lot of ways to try not to say that this boils down to agreement/disagreement with this teachers opinion, and I'm sure this thread will be full of them. Thing is: They're all opinions too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #18 March 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe difference is you don't agree with the opinion. If you did you would take the exact opposite position. no, that's incorrect. the difference is that in the setting of being a HS history teacher, one needs to be impartial and needs to discuss issues with the goal of furthering knowledge, fostering rational thought, and instilling excitement about learning. that's not what this teacher did. he used his position to shape his students viewpoint to match his own. i would say that's wrong no matter what the opinion of the teacher is/was. You disagree with the opinion? End of discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #19 March 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteI understand you don't agree with the presidents assertions, but it is not an over the top rant like what I heard. The teacher was clearly spewing hate, not encouraging students to think for themselves. So you disagree with his opinion, therefore he should be fired. If he just as spiritedly said the exact opposite thing, that would be just fine with you. There are a lot of ways to try not to say that this boils down to agreement/disagreement with this teachers opinion, and I'm sure this thread will be full of them. Thing is: They're all opinions too. Please show any posts that have said "he should be fired because he spoke out against the President". Go ahead and look...we'll wait. Oh, you can't find a post saying that? Maybe that's because the other posters are saying it's HIS JOB to a specific lesson plan, not give the students his opinion of ANY political administration or their policies.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tcnelson 1 #20 March 3, 2006 i fully understand what you are trying to convey but, you are ignoring what i'm saying. believe whatever you want; that's your choice."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,257 #21 March 3, 2006 QuoteAnything is possible.... but obviously the students were upset over SOMEthing that was said. I'd like to think that today's kids have a bit more intelligence than to get bent out of shape over something similar to your example. Wrong. The students weren't upset with what he said - 150 of them protested against his suspension. Only one parent was upset enough with his remarks to complain.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Channman 2 #22 March 3, 2006 > Why was the kid recording the lecture in highschool? I have three girls and they have been recording as well as many of their friends in the class room for several years. They are in private school and there is a standing policy at the school for kids to record if necessary to assist them at home with the subject matter. Not to many teachers standing on soap boxes at our school, to busy teaching math, science, history... to worry about trival matters they can make time for after school. My oldest in her first year in college records as well with or without her prof. knowledge. So far have not heard any prof. going on any rants. This teacher needs to take a chill pill and a couple of them there deep cleansing breaths, and take some time off in the Broke Back Mountains, a place where a guy can find some love. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #23 March 3, 2006 I don't care what you call it but ranting like a lunatic to some impressionable HS students is wrong no matter what the topic and nobody should teach them that this is the way to behave, nor debate... he was clearly NOT doing his job that's why one phone call and the tape got the principal to suspend him from his job pending further invstigation and possible firing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,257 #24 March 3, 2006 QuoteI don't care what you call it but ranting like a lunatic to some impressionable HS students is wrong no matter what the topic and nobody should teach them that this is the way to act behave nor debate... I don't know what he said and neither do you (although I doubt that a ranting lunatic would get that much student support). I was only pointing out that it was a parent and not student pressure that started off the suspension.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 94 #25 March 3, 2006 QuoteSo you disagree with his opinion, therefore he should be fired. If he just as spiritedly said the exact opposite thing, that would be just fine with you. Wrong, not just because I disagree with his opinion. He was more than just spirited. You are assuming things you cannot know. Here is the recording, you don't have to assume it is just 'spirited', you can listen to it for yourself (click the 'video' tab, then "caught on tape" link in the box at the top of the article): http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186672,00.html edit - fixed link.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 1 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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rasmack 0 #2 March 3, 2006 Dude, have you actually heard what he said? Saying that some have compared Bush to Hitler is not the same as endorsing the viewpoint. Me thinks you're being a bit quick to judge here... HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #3 March 3, 2006 the entire topic should have not even come into that classroom... It's like what happened here in my town... A teacher was doing history and the topic of discussion was the revolution and our Constitution. The teacher was quoted as saying "Thomas Jefferson was a rich white man and he owned slaves"...that his only contribution was that! nothing about the fact he invented the rectangular system of surveying which our country uses... Nothing about the fact that he was one of the authors of our Constitution. nothing about his accomplishment in the expansion of our country via the Louisiana purchase...nothing at all other than he was rich white and owned slaves... the same teacher taught his class that Abraham Lincoln started the civil war to stop slavery!!! and guess what? that DOLT is still teaching! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #4 March 3, 2006 Another wonderful example of bypassing the substance for the semantics. People who agree will say: "Free Speech!" People who disagree will say: "Indoctrinating our Youth!" Undoubtedly, you will see pages of this crap go back and forth with out a single mention of how good of a teacher is this guy or is he trying to stimulate people into actually _using_ their brains. Nope, forget that. "Free Speech!" "Indoctrinating our youth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #5 March 3, 2006 He was hired to teach a subject, not to sermonize to a captive audience. A rather large difference, don't you think?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,141 #6 March 3, 2006 QuoteHe was hired to teach a subject, not to sermonize to a captive audience. A rather large difference, don't you think? I didn't see a full transcript, but could it be possible he said: Some people think Bush is the greatest president ever and some think he is similar to Hitler. Is that sermonizing or teaching the fact that the US hasn't been this divided in a long, long time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #7 March 3, 2006 QuoteHe was hired to teach a subject, not to sermonize to a captive audience. A rather large difference, don't you think? See? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #8 March 3, 2006 Anything is possible.... but obviously the students were upset over SOMEthing that was said. I'd like to think that today's kids have a bit more intelligence than to get bent out of shape over something similar to your example.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 March 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteHe was hired to teach a subject, not to sermonize to a captive audience. A rather large difference, don't you think? See? This was a history class, not a debate team. The teacher has a lesson plan they are expected to follow. What part of that is so hard to understand?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #10 March 3, 2006 yes...i see that you don't see the difference, which is, as mneal said, a rather large one."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #11 March 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteHe was hired to teach a subject, not to sermonize to a captive audience. A rather large difference, don't you think? See? This was a history class, not a debate team. The teacher has a lesson plan they are expected to follow. What part of that is so hard to understand? So imagine this: The teacher says the US is bringing freedom and democracy to the middle east and does not torture or detain prisoners against the Geneva Conventions. A student records this, gets it played on Air America radio and seeks to have the teacher disciplined or fired because of his "right-wing rants." What would you say about that? I will bet my left nut that you would change your view 180 degrees depending on whether you agree or disagree with what is being said. That's the problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #12 March 3, 2006 Quoteyes...i see that you don't see the difference, which is, as mneal said, a rather large one. The difference is you don't agree with the opinion. If you did you would take the exact opposite position. That's a big difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #13 March 3, 2006 I love our president, dont love everything he has done but I stand by him. And to me this teacher does not deserve to lose his job because he said "some people compare ..." At the highschool level kids are smart enough to either agree or disagree, and a teachers remark will not change their mind, some will voice their opinions and some dont give a shit. Its not like he commited treason. Why was the kid recording the lecture in highschool? I think this is out of hand and not worth someones job.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #14 March 3, 2006 QuoteSo imagine this: The teacher says the US is bringing freedom and democracy to the middle east and does not torture or detain prisoners against the Geneva Conventions. A student records this, gets it played on Air America radio and seeks to have the teacher disciplined or fired because of his "right-wing rants." What would you say about that? I will bet my left nut that you would change your view 180 degrees depending on whether you agree or disagree with what is being said. That's the problem. I did hear an extended excerpt of his rant, and it was a rant, and extremely inappropriate, in my opinion. Your hypothetical 'right wing rant' does not even come close in comparison. It is pretty much exactly what the president has said. I understand you don't agree with the presidents assertions, but it is not an over the top rant like what I heard. The teacher was clearly spewing hate, not encouraging students to think for themselves.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #15 March 3, 2006 QuoteAnd to me this teacher does not deserve to lose his job because he said "some people compare ..." That is a huge mischaracterization of what he said.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #16 March 3, 2006 QuoteThe difference is you don't agree with the opinion. If you did you would take the exact opposite position. no, that's incorrect. the difference is that in the setting of being a HS history teacher, one needs to be impartial and needs to discuss issues with the goal of furthering knowledge, fostering rational thought, and instilling excitement about learning. that's not what this teacher did. he used his position to shape his students viewpoint to match his own. i would say that's wrong no matter what the opinion of the teacher is/was."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #17 March 3, 2006 QuoteI understand you don't agree with the presidents assertions, but it is not an over the top rant like what I heard. The teacher was clearly spewing hate, not encouraging students to think for themselves. So you disagree with his opinion, therefore he should be fired. If he just as spiritedly said the exact opposite thing, that would be just fine with you. There are a lot of ways to try not to say that this boils down to agreement/disagreement with this teachers opinion, and I'm sure this thread will be full of them. Thing is: They're all opinions too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #18 March 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe difference is you don't agree with the opinion. If you did you would take the exact opposite position. no, that's incorrect. the difference is that in the setting of being a HS history teacher, one needs to be impartial and needs to discuss issues with the goal of furthering knowledge, fostering rational thought, and instilling excitement about learning. that's not what this teacher did. he used his position to shape his students viewpoint to match his own. i would say that's wrong no matter what the opinion of the teacher is/was. You disagree with the opinion? End of discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #19 March 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteI understand you don't agree with the presidents assertions, but it is not an over the top rant like what I heard. The teacher was clearly spewing hate, not encouraging students to think for themselves. So you disagree with his opinion, therefore he should be fired. If he just as spiritedly said the exact opposite thing, that would be just fine with you. There are a lot of ways to try not to say that this boils down to agreement/disagreement with this teachers opinion, and I'm sure this thread will be full of them. Thing is: They're all opinions too. Please show any posts that have said "he should be fired because he spoke out against the President". Go ahead and look...we'll wait. Oh, you can't find a post saying that? Maybe that's because the other posters are saying it's HIS JOB to a specific lesson plan, not give the students his opinion of ANY political administration or their policies.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #20 March 3, 2006 i fully understand what you are trying to convey but, you are ignoring what i'm saying. believe whatever you want; that's your choice."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #21 March 3, 2006 QuoteAnything is possible.... but obviously the students were upset over SOMEthing that was said. I'd like to think that today's kids have a bit more intelligence than to get bent out of shape over something similar to your example. Wrong. The students weren't upset with what he said - 150 of them protested against his suspension. Only one parent was upset enough with his remarks to complain.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #22 March 3, 2006 > Why was the kid recording the lecture in highschool? I have three girls and they have been recording as well as many of their friends in the class room for several years. They are in private school and there is a standing policy at the school for kids to record if necessary to assist them at home with the subject matter. Not to many teachers standing on soap boxes at our school, to busy teaching math, science, history... to worry about trival matters they can make time for after school. My oldest in her first year in college records as well with or without her prof. knowledge. So far have not heard any prof. going on any rants. This teacher needs to take a chill pill and a couple of them there deep cleansing breaths, and take some time off in the Broke Back Mountains, a place where a guy can find some love. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #23 March 3, 2006 I don't care what you call it but ranting like a lunatic to some impressionable HS students is wrong no matter what the topic and nobody should teach them that this is the way to behave, nor debate... he was clearly NOT doing his job that's why one phone call and the tape got the principal to suspend him from his job pending further invstigation and possible firing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #24 March 3, 2006 QuoteI don't care what you call it but ranting like a lunatic to some impressionable HS students is wrong no matter what the topic and nobody should teach them that this is the way to act behave nor debate... I don't know what he said and neither do you (although I doubt that a ranting lunatic would get that much student support). I was only pointing out that it was a parent and not student pressure that started off the suspension.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #25 March 3, 2006 QuoteSo you disagree with his opinion, therefore he should be fired. If he just as spiritedly said the exact opposite thing, that would be just fine with you. Wrong, not just because I disagree with his opinion. He was more than just spirited. You are assuming things you cannot know. Here is the recording, you don't have to assume it is just 'spirited', you can listen to it for yourself (click the 'video' tab, then "caught on tape" link in the box at the top of the article): http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186672,00.html edit - fixed link.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
