HS teachers and the Indoctrination of our youth

[diverborg 0]

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What in not being reported is as many (if not more) walked out in favor of his suspention.

Limbaugh said that all the kids were very smart, they realized a day off when they seen one

Interesting, I hadn't heard that one yet.

So much for that damned right winged Fox news for not giving me the right wing information that I wanted to hear!!

[gemini 0]

http://www.9news.com/includes/buildasx.aspx?fn=http://wm.gannett.speedera.net/wm.gannett/kusa/backup/1141263993253-03-01-06-overland-class-une.wmv&sp=http://wm.gannett.speedera.net/wm.gannett/kusa/pre-stream/bbe-att-feb06-384.wmv

Listen to the actual statement.

Blue skies,

Jim

[CanuckInUSA 0]

1) If this guy was supposed to be teaching a "Geography" lesson instead of World/American politics, then yes he needs to be disciplined as I didn't hear a single thing about geography in that tape. Leave the ranting for the Political Science classes.

2) He was definitely too emotional about the various topics he was talking about and one would wish that an educator talking about such things would be able to keep a level head.

3) It is unfortunate that he didn't answer some of the student’s questions and deflected the conversation on to different subjects instead of addressing what some of the students were asking. But that is as far as I'm going to go in terms of slamming this guy.

4) How many people here in the previous 8 pages of this thread actually listened to the tape before they started spewing their opinions? I only read a small sample of what we've been saying here but it's the usual pro GWBers who are the most vocal calling for this guys head.

5) In regards to my last point, I don't know why some people here are getting their panties in a bind about the "GWB versus Hitler" comments. First off it was such a small part of the overall tape. But did some of you actually listen to what this guy was saying? He even claimed that Hitler was much worse than GWB. His only point of comparing the two was that Hitler and the Nazi party wanted to conquer the world to ensure that the German way of life was the dominant way the rest of the world would live and well how is this different than some of the American governments have conducted themselves over the years? Contrary to what (some) Americans think, there are plenty of cultures in the world who are not interested in living their lives the way Americans live.

6) People need to educate themselves better (and I'm no different than some of you) in not only how the different cultures of the world live and think, but also the various histories the different cultures have come from. How many people think all this terrorism started on September 11th, 2001 and that "THEY" started it? If you're in this camp of "THEY" started it, then I suggest it's time you picked up some history books (preferable ones not written by Americans) and started reading up. This conflict between us (who the #### is us anyway) and them (who the #### is them) goes back decades, no it goes back centuries. And that was part of the message this guy was trying to get across. But as I said, it's unfortunate that he was emotional and didn't let his students be more part of the dialogue.

7) Finally and the end of the tape. This guy can be heard saying "He's not asking his students to necessarily agree with him, except that he wants his students to think about the issues more in depth". So while his method of delivery was far from ideal (yes at times he was ranting), there is nothing wrong with educating the students that "America hasn't always done the right thing and that the American government has been know to do some really bad things in the world". Of course I fully expect some of the GWB lovers with their "God has blessed America because we are God's favorite people" to slam me for my stance on this issue. And that's okay, it is a free society where free speech is allowed and encouraged. But might I suggest that those "Apple Pie Loving - America is the best and #### the rest of the world" people wake up and smell the coffee because you and your beloved president are part of the problem in the world today. Not every culture is interested in your ideals, is interested in adopting your God and your way of life. Personally I think that there are a lot of good decent Americans out there in the world who have done a lot of good things for mankind. It's just unfortunate that numerous American governments can not be grouped in with these good decent Americans. Is there anything wrong with saying this? Is it un-american to question American governments past and present? What happened to free speech? I guess it's a good thing I'm not American living in America ... eh? Otherwise I could see the CIA showing up at my door (under the guise of the Patriot Act) and telling me that I'll be off on an extended holiday to Guantanimo Bay where I can be held and tortured indefinitely for the rest of my life without ever being charged for anything.

PS: My comments are not directed towards you Gemini. I don't know where you stand on some of these issues, and I only replied to your post since you provided a link to what was said in the classroom.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[likearock 2]

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Here's a link to the actual full recording (as full as I've heard anyway).

Listen for yourself, then come back and talk shit. At least you'll be able to do it with full information about the topic of the thread.

http://www.850koa.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=news_worthy.xml

I'm not going to lie to you. What this guy says disgusts and offends me. He's clearly an apologist for Al Qaeda as well as being anti-Administration.

However as I said earlier, that is not the issue. I don't have the right to not be offended.

If you listen to the tape, you'll see that Bennish does allow for an extended discussion with a dissenting student (timecode: 9:30 to 20:05). From the volume of the voice, I'd guess the student was the same one doing the taping. That student asked some good hard questions. I found myself agreeing 100% with his point of view. And the teacher, though he mostly stuck to his guns, addressed these questions (some more directly than others) and even made some small concessions to the student.

Clearly, this teacher does allow viewpoints to be expressed that run counter to his own. Sure, he's not going to change his own mind, but he does permit a free exchange of opposing views in a way that is a lot more civil and respectful than that in other forums (including this one).

It's also clear that he not only allows but also encourages this discussion at several times during the class with statements such as:

"You've got to figure these things out for yourselves."

"I'm not in any way implying you should agree with me."

"What I'm trying to get you to do is to think about these issues more in depth."

And finally, at the end of the ten minute exchange with the student, he says:

"I'm glad that you asked all your questions because they're all very good, legitimate questions and hopefully that allows other people to begin to think about those things too."

Perhaps that isn't enough for some people here. For them, the fact that he expresses such objectional viewpoints at all is sufficient to condemn him.

I disagree. The purpose of school is to learn. It's not to feel warm and fuzzy about your preconceived beliefs. And the students in that class will learn a shitload more about real issues in today's world than the ones in some generic, everything from the textbook, type class.

[RhondaLea 4]

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Wrong, not just because I disagree with his opinion. He was more than just spirited. You are assuming things you cannot know.

I think he did a great job of illustrating the counterpoint to the speech he was analyzing (in the later part of his lecture).

I also think he was asking his students to think. I had teachers like that. Their classes were exciting, interesting.

I always form my own opinions, but part of my process of deciding what I believe is getting as much information from as many perspectives as possible.

One of the problems with our educational system is that it teaches politically correct crap. More teachers like this one would be an improvement.

rl

Edited to add: I just listened to the second link, i.e., the full recording. He's a great teacher. That probably means he's doomed.

I don't agree with everything he says; that's not the issue, though. The issue is that he is trying to turn back the tide of groupthink, one highschool class at a time.

He's doomed.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Wrong, not just because I disagree with his opinion. He was more than just spirited. You are assuming things you cannot know.

I think he did a great job of illustrating the counterpoint to the speech he was analyzing (in the later part of his lecture).

I also think he was asking his students to think. I had teachers like that. Their classes were exciting, interesting.

I always form my own opinions, but part of my process of deciding what I believe is getting as much information from as many perspectives as possible.

One of the problems with our educational system is that it teaches politically correct crap. More teachers like this one would be an improvement.

rl

Edited to add: I just listened to the second link, i.e., the full recording. He's a great teacher. That probably means he's doomed.

I don't agree with everything he says; that's not the issue, though. The issue is that he is trying to turn back the tide of groupthink, one highschool class at a time.

He's doomed.

My entire problem is that at that age alot of kids can't tell the difference between an adverse position and what may be construed as academic truths.

That's the reason to have more of a interchange of ideas vs. Idealogical Ranting...

For the first part of that tape he may have well said he was going to tell them all about the world...at least in his eyes...and that hate filled tirade and self righteous tone would lead one to believe he has nothing but contempt for every thing our country is, and has given us...

I know all too well what decptive and agrressive things our country is capable of.

I also think there is a great problem in pointing out
purely negative things about nearly everything in western civilization.


If he wants to resort to the tactics he used with the information he represented as fact, he should be a political science or current affairs teacher, instead of a geography teacher.

I didn't hear anything in his entire lecture that had to do with his lesson plan for the subject he teaches.

I too had teachers that would challenge your thinking, and expect a vigorous interchange of ideas and beliefs, but they were focused on the subject matter.

[kelpdiver 2]

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If he wants to resort to the tactics he used with the information he represented as fact, he should be a political science or current affairs teacher, instead of a geography teacher.

I didn't hear anything in his entire lecture that had to do with his lesson plan for the subject he teaches.

I too had teachers that would challenge your thinking, and expect a vigorous interchange of ideas and beliefs, but they were focused on the subject matter.

I've already tried to tell you (so have others) that politics are part of geography, and all of these social sciences. And since Likearock was willing to take one for the team and listen the whole tape, we now know that the complaints of the teacher ramming ideology down his students' throats is bullshit.

High schools don't have 'political science' classes. Or current events. You typically have a year of US history, a year of world or European history, a year of geography, and some mesh of "government" and "econ." One semester in 4 years where politics would be considered germane - hardly good prep for soon to be voters.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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5) In regards to my last point, I don't know why some people here are getting their panties in a bind about the "GWB versus Hitler" comments.

I don't speak for anyone but me; the problem I have with it is, the 150 students who came out to support this guy demonstrate that his mush-brained crap and whiny liberal U.S.-bashing IS making a dent in the skulls of the youths he "teaches." They are impressionable, they see an "impassioned" teacher who thus appears "cool" because he's iconoclastic, and they decide, subconsciously, to adopt whatever it is he's saying. And such mimic-thinking is dangerous, especially when it's absurd thinking that they are mimicking.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[mnealtx 0]

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If he wants to resort to the tactics he used with the information he represented as fact, he should be a political science or current affairs teacher, instead of a geography teacher.

I didn't hear anything in his entire lecture that had to do with his lesson plan for the subject he teaches.

I too had teachers that would challenge your thinking, and expect a vigorous interchange of ideas and beliefs, but they were focused on the subject matter.

I've already tried to tell you (so have others) that politics are part of geography, and all of these social sciences. And since Likearock was willing to take one for the team and listen the whole tape, we now know that the complaints of the teacher ramming ideology down his students' throats is bullshit.

High schools don't have 'political science' classes. Or current events. You typically have a year of US history, a year of world or European history, a year of geography, and some mesh of "government" and "econ." One semester in 4 years where politics would be considered germane - hardly good prep for soon to be voters.

Sounds like the curriculum needs to be changed, then.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Sounds like the curriculum needs to be changed, then.

"Tha present curriculum
I put my fist in 'em
Eurocentric, every last one of 'em
See right through the red, white and blue disguise
With lecture I puncture the structure of lies
Installed in our minds and attempting to hold us back --
We've got to take it back --
Holes in our souls causing tears and fears
One-sided stories for years and years and years
I'm inferior?
Who's inferior?
Yeah, ya need to check the interior
of the system who cares about only one culture and that
is why we gotta take the Power back!"


(You got me on a Rage Against The Machine kick now...)


-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[jenfly00 0]

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Anything is possible.... but obviously the students were upset over SOMEthing that was said.

I'd like to think that today's kids have a bit more intelligence than to get bent out of shape over something similar to your example.

Wrong.

The students weren't upset with what he said - 150 of them protested against his suspension.

Only one parent was upset enough with his remarks to complain.

You're correct, I misread the post. My bad.

Sooo, may we now assume you would think the kids have sufficient intelligence to determine an unfair suspension????

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[mnealtx 0]

I think the kids are sufficiently intelligent to protest what they feel is an unfair suspension - how's that?

I've not heard the entire tape, just segments of it (unfortunately, streaming websites are blocked over here), so I can't speak as to whether or not the suspension was merited. What parts of his speech I *did* hear on CNN seemed pretty one-sided.

I still disagree with any teacher using their position as a bully pulpit for any reason.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[warpedskydiver 0]

High schools don't have 'political science' classes. Or current events. You typically have a year of US history, a year of world or European history, a year of geography, and some mesh of "government" and "econ." One semester in 4 years where politics would be considered germane - hardly good prep for soon to be voters.

[jenfly00 0]

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I think the kids are sufficiently intelligent to protest what they feel is an unfair suspension - how's that?

Excellent! Breath slowly and deeply. It will help with the pain.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[tcnelson 1]

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I think the kids are sufficiently intelligent to protest what they feel is an unfair suspension - how's that?

Excellent! Breath slowly and deeply. It will help with the pain.

what you said:

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may we now assume you would think the kids have sufficient intelligence to determine an unfair suspension???

what he said:

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I think the kids are sufficiently intelligent to protest what they feel is an unfair suspension

re-read and notice the difference. these statements are not equivalent. read slowly...it will help with the understanding.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[kelpdiver 2]

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High schools don't have 'political science' classes. Or current events. You typically have a year of US history, a year of world or European history, a year of geography, and some mesh of "government" and "econ." One semester in 4 years where politics would be considered germane - hardly good prep for soon to be voters.

Your statement is not totally true.
Here in our school district geography and current affairs/political science is two very different curriculums I would encourage you to research those remarks a little further before you state such things as a fact that is so all encompassing.

[warpedskydiver 0]

I find your statement to be quite confusing and I do not know whether it was intentional...

I was pointing out that Geaography and Political Sciences are taught at this district IN SEPERATE CURRICULUM

As for feeling sorry don't as these students receive the benefit of being taught BOTH without intentionally confusing one science for another.

[kelpdiver 2]

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As for feeling sorry don't as these students receive the benefit of being taught BOTH without intentionally confusing one science for another.

you still cling to the notion that they're distinctly separate sciences.

pop quiz - why has Poland been invaded so many times in history?
and Why did Yugoslavia fail to make it as a nation state?

[warpedskydiver 0]

well I must admit I looked in a dictionary!!!

and yes I do know something about geography

I am a LAND SURVEYOR, are you?

who do you think does the work of geographical mapping anyways?...surveying is the father of all the land sciences...


here is another source you may want to read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography

now I will admit there are "related fields" but they are not called "geography"

check out the USGS, ACSM, and others

[kelpdiver 2]

dictionary seems so elementary school.

and I know something about poltiical science- having a degree from the top program in the country.

Sorry, land surveying is not really the same thing - you focus on a very narrow slice of what geography entails.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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dictionary seems so elementary school.

and I know something about poltiical science- having a degree from the top program in the country.

Sorry, land surveying is not really the same thing - you focus on a very narrow slice of what geography entails.

Gee, then lets get rid of all that old information that civilization has been using for hundreds of years....

you know enyclopedias, dictionaries, knowledge, etc.

I mean that's just soooo elementary school

[likearock 2]

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here is another source you may want to read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography

You know I'm probably showing my age here but back when I was in high school, history, geography, and current events were all taught in a single class, social studies.

It's not unreasonable to believe that some districts still allow the subjects to blend together no matter what the actual course title says.

Geography is a living breathing thing. There's a reason those boundaries are drawn where they are. Wars were fought to make them that way. Current events are constantly threatening to change them further.

[JohnnyD 0]

Update: The teacher was reinstated. I don't think the school board can publicly disclose whether or not he was disciplined.